ARK Invest Podcast
Questions on ElonsFAQ asked in this interview (2)
Transcript
0:00Tasha KeeneyWelcome back to FYI. Today we're thrilled to be here in fremont with elon musk. I have with me cathie wood, ark invest og innovator and CEO.
0:09Cathie WoodAnd I don't know what that was until today.
0:17Tasha KeeneyI'm Tasha Keeney. I'm an analyst and I cover autonomous cars at ark. Elon, thanks for joining us today.
0:22Elon MuskYou're welcome. Good to join. You have a great radio voice, doesn't she?
0:26Tasha KeeneyThank you.
0:27Cathie WoodThis is why we chose her.
0:28Elon MuskIt's like eerie.
0:30Cathie WoodNo, we chose Tasha to be our introduction for FYI. This is called FYI for your Innovation. That's our weekly podcast. And Tasha, there was a competition in the office and Tasha won as the best radio voice.
0:46Elon MuskOkay, makes sense. Maybe I should. I'll try talking in a radio voice, see if that works.
0:53Cathie WoodI also want to thank you, Elon. We're very excited to do this. One of the reasons I started ARC is because innovation is being completely mispriced in the public markets as the public markets go passive.
1:07Elon MuskYeah. Totally agree.
1:09Cathie WoodThe antithesis.
1:10Elon MuskTotally. John Bogle, who's awesome, may he rest in peace. One of his last comments was like, there's too much. The passive index funds are too big. And he was the guy that really obviously came up with the low fee index fund.
1:23Cathie WoodYes. And the other thing that's happening again, a problem for innovation in the public markets is the big public asset managers. They started looking for innovation in the pre IPO space.
1:37Cathie WoodRight. So you know, where we operate is inefficiently priced like I've never seen in my career. Most people looking at our portfolios would not agree because our PE ratios this year, next year, look very high.
1:52Cathie WoodBut we want companies like Tesla to be investing aggressively to capitalize on the massive opportunities we see ahead. So we thank you for not going private.
2:05Elon MuskYeah.
2:06Cathie WoodBecause we do think if you are going to achieve your goals, you need to be public to scale that quickly and to enjoy the kind of exponential growth that you will enjoy because you're on the right side of change.
2:20Cathie WoodSo we're really excited to be here. Now, what we're not going to talk about too much is electric vehicle sales and certainly not production.
2:29Tasha KeeneyRight.
2:30Cathie WoodBecause we believe and just want to get your high level reaction to this based on. And this is based on Sam Koris battery work, cost decline, some of the amazing things you're doing with battery pack systems, new chemistries and so forth.
2:44Cathie WoodThe cost declines. If we were relying on that analysis alone, we would see EV sales, given the price elasticity of demand increase from 1.3 million last year to 26 million in 2023.
2:59Cathie WoodSo in five years. So that's a 20 fold increase if the battery capacity were there and so and production capacity, what do you think about that? That would be the high level assumption.
3:11Cathie WoodTop down.
3:12Elon MuskSounds about right. Sounds about right.
3:14Cathie WoodWow. So that's about a third of total global sales at that time.
3:19Elon MuskI mean you might be off by a year or two, but not by much.
3:24Cathie WoodThat's huge. Now for our bottom up modeling, we're very conservative. So the range that we are out there in terms of our Bear bull range, 700 to 4,000, that is based on 1 point Tesla selling 1.6 million in that year, which given our top down analysis and given how far you are ahead of any other auto manufacturer and any other technology company, that 1.6 million is increasingly looking way too conservative if you can scale to take the proper amount of share or the share you should take given how advanced you are.
4:07Cathie WoodSo maybe you could give us some of your thoughts there.
4:10Elon MuskYeah, I want to emphasize that if I give estimates, these are really, there's a lot of guesswork here. And especially on an exponential curve, a year or two difference is enormous.
4:19Elon MuskObviously, Tesla got a lot of criticism for the number of cars we delivered in 2017, because if you say the area under the curve of production in 2017 was quite small because it was the beginning of an exponential ramp.
4:33Elon MuskBut then once that got going, the area under the curve was enormous. And that's why people were so shocked. And I kept trying to say this, but people don't understand, I guess, what an exponential means or they don't.
4:44Cathie WoodThey're all linear thinkers.
4:45Elon MuskYes, yes, exactly. So like last year, we basically doubled our global fleet. Cumulatively, we made and delivered more about as many cars as we had made in our entire history.
4:59Cathie WoodI know, right?
5:00Elon MuskExactly. You guys know, But I'm just saying for the audience out there, most people
5:04Cathie Woodthought it was impossible.
5:05Elon MuskYes. And if you do a linear extrapolation, it certainly would be. But when making estimates against an exponential, small changes in the calendar breakpoint have enormous percentage differences. The time difference is small, but the percentage difference is enormous.
5:25Elon MuskI'm saying things that you guys know. But this is for the broader audience out there.
5:30Cathie WoodYes. No, we want this. Yes. We want people to understand this.
5:33Elon MuskRight. Getting to 5,000 cars, peak production per week was offset by approximately six months from my initial estimate last year. So I thought we'd be there end of 2017.
5:45Elon MuskIt took us six months longer in the grand scheme of things, six months late for a massive new program is not much, but this was characterized in the press in terms of the percentage of units instead of a calendar shift.
5:58Elon MuskAnd so it was perceived as a massive shortfall when in fact it was merely a six month delay. And when I give these, say, my guesses for the future, if you move six months or 12 months, these numbers can be 50 to 100% different.
6:14Elon MuskBut if you say, what's my guess for 2021 is one and a half million cars for Tesla, something like that
6:21Cathie Wood21 and 2023, which is that 26 million. If we knew only the cost decline associated with batteries, 2023 number, if we're right, could be 26 million. But it really, it's actually dependent on what you do more than almost any and what China does.
6:39Cathie WoodAnd what you do in China, again,
6:41Elon Muskjust guess, probably we do 3 million.
6:45Cathie WoodSo very exciting times ahead. That's way above what anyone is thinking out there and even above what we have assumed bottom up, just to remain conservative because we already seem a little out there in terms of our expectations.
7:01Cathie WoodSo what we wanted to with this podcast is spend more time on your autonomous strategy. We're very happy that retail investors are asking questions about this on your call.
7:13Cathie WoodWe wish more institutional, institutional investors would understand how important this is not only to your model, but how it's going to change your valuation from that of, from today to really software as a service, almost.
7:28Cathie WoodSo, yes. So maybe. Sorry, did you.
7:31Elon MuskYeah, no, absolutely. We can sort of think of our cars, maybe long term, as being effectively carriers for the Autonomy. That's Autonomy software. So it's like they're a vehicle, literally and figuratively for Autonomy.
7:45Elon MuskThat's the software that rides on them.
7:47Cathie WoodYes, yes. So Tasha has been doing a lot of our work on autonomous taxi networks. We've been working on these models for five years and it's extended into autonomous truck platoons, into parcel drones and passenger drones.
8:05Cathie WoodSo we're very focused on this and would love to explore it a little bit more with you in terms of what you're doing, Tasha.
8:13Tasha KeeneyYeah, so my first question is, you know, Tesla wasn't always pursuing fully autonomous driving. If you look back in 2013, there's a couple quotes from you saying, you know, that last 10% is incredibly hard and you need to keep a human in the loop.
8:25Tasha KeeneyWhat's changed your mind?
8:27Elon MuskI still think the last 10% of autonomy is extremely difficult, or even the last 1% of autonomy is really difficult. I think there's a couple things that would be helpful to calibrate with the audience.
8:37Elon MuskAnd if I may go back to one thing generally. For example, if I say we will reach 5,000 cars a week, what I mean is that's the peak production.
8:45Elon MuskBut then just reference, if you have peak production of X, then you're going to be somewhere between 80 and 85% of that for average production through the quarter. When taking public holidays and equipment maintenance into account.
8:59Elon MuskThen also for defining autonomy or full self driving, I think we will be feature complete full self driving this year, meaning the car will be able to find you in a parking lot, pick you up, take you all the way to your destination without an intervention this year I would say that I am certain of that.
9:21Elon MuskThat is not a question mark. However people sometimes we'll extrapolate that to mean now it works with 100% certainty requiring no observation. Perfectly. This is not the case. Once it is feature complete, then you're sort of kind of a march of nines.
9:38Elon MuskLike how many nines of reliability do you, do you want it to be? And then when do regulators agree that it is that reliable? So there's feature complete for full self driving this year with Certaintee.
9:50Elon MuskThis is something that we control and I manage autopilot engineering directly every week in detail. So I'm certain of this. Then when will regulators allow us even to have these features turned on with human oversight?
10:06Elon MuskThat's a variable which we have limited control over. Then it's when will regulators agree that these things can be done without human oversight? That is another level beyond that.
10:17Elon MuskSo these are externalities we don't quite control. And the conservatism of regulators varies a lot from one jurisdiction to another. My guess as to when we would think it's safe for somebody to essentially fall asleep and wake up the destination probably towards the end of next year.
10:37Elon MuskThat's when I would think it's most likely it will be safe enough for that. I don't know when regulators will agree.
10:44Cathie WoodDo you think they'll agree in China first? Could you imagine that happening? China really wants to leapfrog the rest of the world and as you've said, the mayors of cities and presumably the regulators are tech savvy because that's what's going to get them there.
11:01Elon MuskWe've generally found the regulators in China to be very thoughtful, quite smart. Yeah, really found them to be very good. We've also found the US at a federal level to be very good as well.
11:13Elon MuskCalifornia can be a little overzealous, but US Federal China Federal is good. Europe is a little conservative in this regard.
11:21Tasha KeeneyYeah, we've heard sort of similar things about Europe. That the environment's moving a little bit slower there. Interesting. So I mean this is an amazing technological feat. What gives you the confidence that this is a solvable problem?
11:31Tasha KeeneyAnd then why should Tesla be the one to solve this?
11:34Elon MuskWell, first of all, I think it's helpful to clarify with people think sometimes that I'm a business person or finance person or something like that. I'm an engineer, I do engineering, always have.
11:45Elon MuskSo when I wrote software for like 15 years, 20 years, and I understand technology and software at quite a fundamental level, I know what we need to solve to make full self driving future complete.
11:56Elon MuskI think we've got an extremely good technical team. I think we really have the best people. It's an honor to work with them. I'm certain that we will get this done this year.
12:07Tasha KeeneySo can I ask you about Autopilot? So to what degree is consumer use of autopilot important in terms of furthering along the process? Because it seems like not every consumer is going to use it.
12:20Tasha KeeneyIt might vary person to person. Should you sort of incentivize people to use it? Maybe auto initiate. Is that even possible here?
12:27Cathie WoodI think we're talking about quality of the data. Is that what you're talking about, the data that you're getting? Because you can monitor all the data but the quality with Autopilot is superior, I would imagine.
12:36Elon MuskThe advantage that we have that I think is very difficult to overcome is that we have just a vast amount of data on interventions. So effectively the customers are training the system on how to drive and there are millions of corner cases.
12:51Elon MuskThey're so obscure and weird, you wouldn't believe it. I mean there's different road markings, different rules in different countries, different expectations. You've got rain, snow, sleet, hail, you know, hurricanes, floods, fires, smoke, dust.
13:07Elon MuskIt's insane, I know, but we've got cars in almost all, really in all those environments. And so we every time somebody intervenes, takes over from autopilot, it saves that information on and uploads it to our system.
13:21Elon MuskWe don't know which car it was or how, what happened. There's no individual attribution for the car. We just know that that intervention took place and then we see what is required to fix that intervention.
13:31Elon MuskAnd we're really starting to get quite good at not even requiring human labeling. Basically the person, say, drives the intersection. We know then and is thereby training autopilot what to do.
13:44Cathie WoodRight, right. Do you think one of the questions we debate a lot when we look at what happenings, at what is happening at Waymo and Cruise automation is that it seems as though the artificial intelligence or deep learning or deep reinforcement learning that you're using, you know, is probabilistic.
14:04Cathie WoodThey seem to be more deterministic in their approach because we're just looking at what's going on wrong there. And that's what that suggests. Does that what.
14:13Elon MuskYeah, essentially a heuristics approach to this will result in a local maximum of capability, so not a global maximum. I think you really have to apply a sophisticated neural net to achieve a global maximum.
14:29Elon MuskAnd this is why the reliance on LIDAR is unwise. It gets you to a certain point, but no further. And so basically a series of if then else statements in LIDAR is not going to solve it.
14:37Elon MuskForget it, it's game over. You have to solve vision perception, essentially understanding with vision, and then it's solved. You don't need anything else. No other sensors at all. I mean, we drive cars with basically two cameras that aren't very good on a gimbal that doesn't move very fast.
14:55Elon MuskAnd a professional driver will almost never have an accident.
15:00Cathie WoodVery interesting.
15:03Tasha KeeneyYeah. A lot of the time we get a lot of pushback in this idea of data and sort of what data is more important than others. I guess maybe highlight for us.
15:12Tasha KeeneyI mean, Tesla has more real world miles than anyone else by far.
15:17Elon MuskI think we must have more than everyone else. Maybe 100 times more than everyone else.
15:22Tasha KeeneyYeah.
15:22Cathie WoodYou said 5%. I think on you said they have altogether 5% of.
15:27Elon MuskIt's probably closer to 1%.
15:29Tasha KeeneyYeah. I mean, that's amazing. So there must be sort of events that are specific to Tesla in there that no one else has. I guess. Could you sort of talk about some of that uniqueness?
15:39Elon MuskI think it's just really the long tail of weird events, the million weird situations, all sorts of weather conditions, all kinds of road conditions, situations where the road rules aren't even followed, they're not always followed.
15:52Elon MuskSay somebody working on the road might make a mistake and then suddenly you've got a situation where there are no road cones or there's a big hole in the road or something really nutty or completely strange object that's on the road that's not recognized.
16:06Elon MuskSo it's really the reason Tesla, I think, is making rapid progress is because we have vastly more data. And this is increasing exponentially as our fleet is increasing exponentially.
16:17Elon MuskOur data is increasing exponentially. Then I think we've got, like I said, the best technical team. And although I brought it up before, people don't seem to really be taking note of the fact that the Tesla Autopilot AI computer is about to roll into production.
16:32Elon MuskAnyone who's ordered full self driving will get that for free. It's really, I've said maybe it's like an order of magnitude improvement over the Nvidia system that we have, but it's really more like over 2000%.
16:45Cathie WoodYeah. Our analyst on AI deep learning spent nine years at Nvidia and concluded that you were at least three years just looking initially at the specs, at least three years ahead of anybody else out there, any other auto manufacturer.
17:02Elon MuskYeah. And we started the chip program about three years ago because it just seems as though we would want to advance making things. If you want to have a complex neural network, you need a combination of software and hardware.
17:13Elon MuskAnd your software needs to be that much better in order to compensate for hardware if the hardware is weaker. If you look sort of like say video games and how they progress, it's a combination of software and hardware.
17:24Elon MuskNo amount of clever software could produce a video game on old hardware that you have today. Just doesn't matter. So same thing with neural nets. So right now we can process on the order of 100 frames a second and we really need to do a lot of work in terms of cropping the frames and sort of bending the pixels and not going to full resolution on all cameras and that kind of thing.
17:48Elon MuskWith the current hardware we're at full frames, full resolution. With the Tesla hardware, all cameras at full resolution, full frames.
17:56Cathie WoodThat's crazy.
17:57Elon MuskIt still hasn't tapped out. Yeah.
17:59Tasha KeeneySo is the amount of compute processing power that you need for full autonomy fixed or would you have to upgrade this every two years? How do you think about that?
18:08Elon MuskWell, I mean, I do think that we can achieve principle achieve full autonomy with the Nvidia hardware, but it's a much harder software problem. And like I said, you really have to try to budget your compute and do all sorts of tricks to manage how you use your compute.
18:24Elon MuskSo it's a harder software problem with hardware that's 2000% better. You don't have to do that constant budgeting. And so the software problem is much easier. So I think with the current hardware and a lot of effort we could get to full self driving with maybe being like 50 to 100% safer than a person.
18:42Elon MuskBut with Hardware 3, I think it's probably like 1000% safer. Than a person.
18:46Cathie WoodAre you presenting this to the regulators? Do they understand this? Do they want to understand this?
18:52Elon MuskI think they'll. They understand data. So if we show billions of miles with a given safety level, then they sort of appreciate that. I mean, simply saying, like, hey, we've got this really fast computer and everything's going to work.
19:03Elon MuskIt's like, well, that's just a statement. But if you've got hard data billions of miles, and you can show the accident rate and the intervention rate and that essentially it's unsafe if you don't have autopilot on.
19:14Cathie WoodRight.
19:15Elon MuskWhich I think really is unequivocal at this point. No matter how you slice the data, it is unequivocal at this point that it's safer to have autopilot on the data.
19:25Cathie WoodComment you just made, we were very interested that the regulators, after they examined the first fatality, I think it was the data around the first fatality that they just swung in your favor.
19:39Cathie WoodI think it was shocking, and I'm surprised more people haven't really taken note of that.
19:44Elon MuskYeah, there is a phenomenon that we noticed that would happen. Essentially. It's like people just get overconfident with the system, even though we repeatedly warn them, you must pay attention to the road.
19:56Elon MuskLike, literally every time you use autopilot, it says, you must pay attention to the road. You must keep your hands on the wheel. Every single time you use it, it says this.
20:03Elon MuskAnd if you take your hands off the wheel for too long, it will start beeping at you and then slow down and that kind of thing. So anyway, so it's just.
20:09Elon MuskBut really, at this point, there's just flat out no question that it's safer. You know, like I would recommend it to anyone. It's just getting better. So. Yeah.
20:19Tasha KeeneySo have you noticed a change in the regulatory environment? Are you feeling sort of more confident than previously, or is this sort of. You know, it's still such an open question that, I mean, Tesla's in a really unique position because you have the data to show them.
20:32Tasha KeeneySo it almost seems like, you know, you could be having sort of more advanced conversations about sort of proving that safety level, I guess.
20:38Elon MuskWhat are your thoughts right now? With a few exceptions, we are not being held back by regulators.
20:45Cathie WoodIs that a US Comment, or is it global?
20:49Elon MuskThere are a few jurisdictions in the world that are more conservative right now. I would not say that we're held back by regulators in minor ways. For example, we expect to, I think, get the latest autopilot approval Navigate.
21:03Elon MuskOr autopilot I think, is going to get approved in Europe next week or something like that. But these are tiny delays in the grand scheme of things. Doesn't really matter.
21:11Cathie WoodThat's great.
21:12Tasha KeeneyAnd so as you think about sort of this development of autonomous driving and the rollout strategy, Tesla's not taking this other approach that, say, Waymo and others are doing, going city by city.
21:21Tasha KeeneyYou're going to do a wider rollout. There's still sort of, I don't know if you want to call it geofencing, but there's, you know, you start with highways and then you go sort of off highway and then are you going to go country by country or sort of.
21:34Tasha KeeneyHow are you thinking of this evolving in terms of sort of the full steps to, I guess, to get to full autonomy? You know, are you then tackling intersections?
21:41Tasha KeeneyAre you sort of adding future feature and then country by country?
21:45Elon MuskYeah, we start off with highway because that tends to be what actually matters the most, particularly if you're stuck in traffic and stop and go traffic. That's very painful.
21:54Elon MuskAnd it has the most benefit to have autonomy on freeways, which are usually congested in almost every city in the world. So, in fact, myself and others doing is that even if there's a shorter way home, you still take the highway because you can use autopilot.
22:10Elon MuskI stopped using Waze, for example. Just like take the highway because then I have autopilot on going through a bunch of windy streets, which is kind of like a lot of mental overhead, as opposed to just sitting on the highway and cruising along is better.
22:24Elon MuskSo originally I've gone with, okay, what's going to add the most value to people? Also, highway accidents tends to be higher velocity and so potentially more dangerous. Like, fatalities are very proportionate to speed.
22:35Elon MuskBelow a certain speed, it's very difficult to hurt yourself or die, particularly in a Tesla. Above a certain speed, it's more dangerous. So it's like, okay, where can it be most helpful from a convenience and a safety standpoint?
22:48Elon MuskSo it's very focused on highways for that reason. Then intersections are the next thing. And some of them, you have a lot of variance in intersections. So that's what we're working on right now.
22:59Elon MuskAnd it's working at a development level. No problem recognizing stop signs and traffic lights, but you do get ambiguity and some complex intersections with traffic lights, like, which one's the right light to focus on.
23:10Elon MuskEven if you're a person, it's not always clear. So that's what we're working on there. So we'll try to make that work in the US and then we'll extend that functionality elsewhere.
23:19Elon MuskSo highways in Europe are different, particularly when you deal with the corner cases. So we're kind of making it work in Norway as a priority for us because we've got a lot of customers there and I think we're close to having that ready.
23:32Elon MuskNetherlands, Germany, Switzerland, I guess.
23:35Tasha KeeneyOne general question. What do you think of letting other automakers build on Tesla's platform?
23:40Elon MuskI mean, generally, we found it's like, quite. It's not easy to work with traditional automakers. It's not like, first of all, they're not exactly banging down our door to work with us.
23:48Cathie WoodNobody took you up on your patents.
23:51Elon MuskI think they have, actually.
23:52Cathie WoodOh, really?
23:53Elon MuskYeah.
23:53Cathie WoodOkay, that's interesting.
23:54Elon MuskOn the patents they have. That's very different from, say, creating integrated system. If there was an automaker out there that wanted to implement the same hardware system as Tesla and use our software, I think we'd be very open to it.
24:08Elon MuskBut we're not going to change it. What tends to happen is they want to work with us, but then they'll say, oh, but we want you to change the following six things.
24:14Elon MuskLike, no, because it's going to slow us down massively. It's like, if you want to use exactly our thing, that's fine, but then they don't want to use exactly our thing.
24:23Elon MuskWe're open to other automakers using our supercharged network. We're open to them using our autopilot system. They just need to make it work without a ton of overhead on Tesla engineering.
24:33Cathie WoodAbsolutely the right thing to do. I have a little bit of a different question for the. It's a little bit off topic, but it's in the news or it's becoming more in the news.
24:42Cathie WoodSo it's about crypto, crypto assets. Crypto, you know, crypto. Seriously, Chris, Seriously? Seriously. Very seriously. I think you and Jack Dorsey have chatted a bit recently about this, right?
24:56Elon MuskBitcoin and Ethereum scammers were so rampant on Twitter that I decided just join in. I said at one point, want to buy some bitcoin? And then my account got suspended because obviously it's like some automatic rule that if you try to sell bitcoin or something.
25:16Elon MuskBut I was just joking.
25:19Cathie WoodSo my question is a little. It's a little different from cryptocurrencies, although given your history in the payments ecosystem, it would be very interesting to know if you agree with Jack and there is going to be one native cryptocurrency when it comes to the Internet.
25:37Cathie WoodHe thinks it's bitcoin.
25:38Elon MuskIt's interesting. I have some friends of mine that are really involved in crypto. I mean, I think the bitcoin structure was quite brilliant. It seems like there's some merit to Ethereum as well and maybe some of the others, but I'm not sure that it would be a good use of resources to get involved in crypto.
25:55Elon MuskWe're really just trying to accelerate the advent of sustainable energy. I think actually one of the downsides of crypto is that computationally it's quite energy intensive. There had to be some kind of constraints on the creation of crypto, but it's very energy intensive to create the incremental Bitcoin at this point.
26:14Cathie WoodYeah. But at the same. By the same time, there were $1.3 trillion worth of transactions in bitcoin. And we don't see it here because it's not for pizza or Coke.
26:24Cathie WoodIt's business to business. But we think it is business to business in Africa, where it is prohibitively expensive to convert from one nation's currency to another. You have to go through the dollar and that.
26:39Cathie WoodI mean, it. It really is very important to. It's money over IP for them. It's free transmission of money and that's really important to opening up the world. And, you know.
26:50Elon MuskYeah. It bypasses currency controls.
26:52Cathie WoodYes. Yes.
26:53Elon MuskYeah. Yes. Well, yeah. Paper money is going away.
26:59Cathie WoodYes.
27:00Elon MuskAnd crypto is a far better way to transfer value than pieces of paper, that's for sure.
27:06Cathie WoodWithout a doubt.
27:07Elon MuskThat has its pros and cons.
27:09Tasha KeeneyJust to clarify, Tesla's not going to start selling bitcoin.
27:11Elon MuskNo, we're not.
27:12Tasha KeeneyOkay. You heard it here first. Even though everyone thought that.
27:17Cathie WoodNo. Well, we thank you so much for doing this and thank you for just doing what you're doing to change the world and make it a better place.
27:25Tasha KeeneyThanks.
27:25Cathie WoodThat's what we're doing in terms of it. No, seriously.
27:27Elon MuskI always think of Silicon Valley, that comedy. Have you seen that show? It's pretty funny.
27:33Cathie WoodI'm sure I didn't.
27:35Elon MuskIt's like literally every company.
27:36Cathie WoodI'm sure.
27:37Elon MuskEvery time.
27:37Cathie WoodI often. Yeah. Oh, that's what people say.
27:41Elon MuskLike glitch, Larry Co.
27:42Cathie WoodOkay, well, you're really doing it. And you're really doing Making the World
27:45Elon Muska Better Place by social mobile crypto.
27:49Cathie WoodThis is so different. This is so different. We totally agree with you.
27:53Elon MuskYeah.
27:55Cathie WoodYou're doing the real thing.
27:56Elon MuskCool.
27:56Cathie WoodSo thank you.
27:57Elon MuskThanks.