Joe Rogan Experience #1169 - Elon Musk
Questions on ElonsFAQ asked in this interview (3)
Transcript
0:00Joe RoganAh hahaha. 4, 3, 2, 1. Boom. Thank you. Thanks for doing this, man. Really appreciate it.
0:09Elon MuskHey, welcome.
0:10Joe RoganIt's very good to meet you.
0:11Elon MuskNice to meet you too.
0:12Joe RoganAnd thanks for not lighting this place on fire.
0:13Elon MuskYou're welcome. That's coming later.
0:16Joe RoganHow does one just in the middle of doing all the things you do, create cars, rockets, all this stuff you're doing, constantly innovating, decide to just make a flamethrower?
0:28Joe RoganWhere do you have the time for that?
0:30Elon MuskWell, we didn't put a lot of time into the flamethrower. This was an off the cuff thing. And so it's sort of a hobby company called the Boring Company, which started out as a joke and we decided to make it real and dig a tunnel.
0:54Elon MuskAnd then other people asked us to dig tunnels and so we said yes in a few cases. And then we have a merchandise section that only has one piece of merchandise at a time.
1:08Elon MuskAnd we started off with a cap and there was only one thing, it was just boringcompany.com cap or hat. That's it. And then we sold the hats, limited edition.
1:21Elon MuskIt just said the Boring Company. And then I'm a big fan of Spaceballs the movie. And in Spaceballs, yogurt goes through the merchandising section and they have a flamethrower in the merchandising section of Spaceballs.
1:41Elon MuskAnd like the kids love that one. That's the line when he pulls out the flamethrower, it's like, we should do a flamethrower. So we.
1:52Joe RoganDoes anybody tell you no? Does anybody go, elon, maybe for yourself. But selling a flamethrower, the liabilities, all the people you're selling this device to, what kind of unhinged people are going to be buying a flamethrower in the first place?
2:07Joe RoganDo we really want to connect ourselves to all these potential arsonists?
2:11Elon MuskYeah. It's a terrible idea. Terrible. Shouldn't buy one. I don't. I said don't buy this flamethrower. Don't buy it. Don't buy it. That's what I said. But still people bought it.
2:22Elon MuskThere's nothing I can do to stop them.
2:25Joe RoganThey will come.
2:26Elon MuskI said don't buy it. It's a bad idea.
2:29Joe RoganHow many did you make?
2:30Elon MuskIt's dangerous, it's got, it's wrong. Don't buy it. Still people bought it. I just couldn't stop them.
2:38Joe RoganHow many did you make?
2:40Elon Musk20,000. And they're all gone in three, I think four days. They sold out in four days.
2:49Joe RoganAre you gonna do a another run? No, no, that's it.
2:54Elon MuskYes. I said we would do 20. We did 50,000. 50,000 hats. And that was a million dollars. And. Okay, well, will sell something for 10 million. And that was 20,000 flamethrowers at $500 each.
3:16Elon MuskThey went fast.
3:20Joe RoganHow do you have the time to do that, though? I mean, I understand that it's not a big deal in terms of all the other things that you do, but how do you have time to do anything?
3:27Joe RoganI just, I don't understand your time management skills.
3:31Elon MuskI mean, I didn't spend much time on this flamethrower. I mean, to be totally frank, it's actually just a roofing torch with an air rifle cover. It's not a real flamethrower, which is
3:43Joe Roganwhy it says not a flamethrower.
3:45Elon MuskThat's why we were very clear this is not actually a flamethrower. And also we were told that various countries would ban shipping of it, they would ban flamethrowers. So we very to solve this problem for all the customs agencies, we labeled it not a flamethrower.
4:03Joe RoganDid it work? Is it effective?
4:06Elon MuskI don't know. I think so, yeah. So far, yes. Now, but you said you cannot surp a flamethrower.
4:11Joe RoganBut you do so many different things. Forget about the flamethrower. Like how do you do all that other shit? How does one decide to fix LA traffic? By drilling holes in the ground.
4:22Joe RoganAnd who do you even approach with that? Like when you have this idea, who do you talk to about that?
4:27Elon MuskI mean, I'm not saying it's going to be successful or so you know, I asserting that it's going to be successful. But so far I've lived in LA for 16 years and the traffic has always been terrible.
4:42Elon MuskAnd so I don't see any other ideas for improving the traffic. So in desperation, we're going to dig a tunnel. And maybe that tunnel will be successful and maybe it won't.
5:00Joe RoganI'm listening.
5:01Elon MuskYeah. I'm not trying to convince you it's going to work.
5:04Joe RoganAnd are the people or anyone. But you were starting this, though. This is actually a project you're starting to implement, right?
5:11Elon MuskYeah, no, we've dug about a mile, it's quite long. Takes a long time to walk it.
5:17Joe RoganYeah. Now when you're doing this, what is the ultimate plan? The ultimate plan is to have these in major cities and anywhere there's mass congestion. And just try it out in LA first.
5:27Elon MuskYeah, it's in LA because I mostly Live in la. That's the reason it's a terrible place to dig tunnels. This is one of the worst places to dig tunnels because, mostly because of the paperwork, people think it's like, what about seismic?
5:41Elon MuskIt's like, actually tunnels are very safe in earthquakes.
5:45Joe RoganWhy is that?
5:48Elon MuskEarthquakes are essentially a surface phenomenon. It's like waves on the ocean. So if there's a storm, you want to be in a submarine. So being in a tunnel is like being in a submarine.
6:01Elon MuskNow, the way the tunnel is constructed is it's constructed out of these interlocking segments, kind of like a snake. It's sort of like a snake exoskeleton with double seals.
6:15Elon MuskAnd so even when the ground moves, the tunnel actually is able to shift along with the ground like an underground snake. And it doesn't crack or break. And it's extremely unlikely that both seals would be broken.
6:32Elon MuskAnd it's capable of taking 5 atmospheres of pressure. It's waterproof, methane proof, or gas proof of any kind, and meets all California seismic requirements.
6:46Joe RoganSo when you have this idea, who do you bring this to?
6:50Elon MuskI'm not sure what you mean by that.
6:51Joe RoganWell, when you, you're, you're implementing it so you're digging holes in the ground, like, you have to bring it to someone that lets you do it.
6:58Elon MuskYeah.
6:58Joe RoganSo
7:01Elon Muskthere were, there were some engineers from SpaceX who were, who thought it would be cool to do this. And the guy who runs it like day to day, Steve Davis, He's a longtime SpaceX engineer.
7:16Elon MuskHe's great. So Steve was like, I'd like to help make this happen. I was like, cool. So we started off with digging a hole in the ground. It's got like a permit for a pit, big pit, and just dug a big pit.
7:34Joe RoganAnd you have to tell them what the pit's for, or you just say, hey, we just want to dig a hole nice.
7:39Elon MuskFill out this form.
7:41Joe RoganThat's it.
7:43Elon MuskYeah, it was a pit in our parking lot and.
7:45Joe RoganBut do you have to give them some sort of a blueprint for your ultimate idea? And do they have to approve it? Like, how does that work?
7:51Elon MuskNow we just started off with a pit.
7:52Joe RoganOkay, big pit.
7:54Elon MuskAnd now, you know, there's not really, you know, don't really care about the existential nature of a pit. You just say like, I don't want a pit.
8:03Joe RoganRight.
8:04Elon MuskYou know, and it's a hole in the ground. So then we got the permit for the pit and we dug the pit and we dug it in like, I don't know three days.
8:16Elon MuskTwo. Three days, actually. 48 hours, something like that. Because Eric Garcetti was coming by for the hype to. He was going to attend the hyperloop competition, which is like a student competition we have for who can make the fastest possible pod in the hyperloop.
8:31Elon MuskAnd he was coming. This was the finals are going to be on Sunday afternoon. And so Eric was coming by on Sunday afternoon, was like, you know, we should take this pit and then, like, show Eric.
8:43Elon MuskSo we. This is like Friday morning and then. Yeah. So it was about a little over 40 hours. 40 hours later we dug the pit. It was like, when.
8:51Elon Musk24. 7. Oh, 24, 48 straight hours, something like that. And dug this big pit. And we're like, showed Eric the pit. Like, obviously it's just a pit, but, hey, hole in the ground is better than no hole in the ground.
9:09Joe RoganAnd what do you tell them about this pit? I mean, you said, this is the beginning of this idea. We're going to build tunnels under LA to help funnel traffic better.
9:18Joe RoganAnd they just go, okay, we've joked around about this in the podcast before. They're like, what other person can go to the people that run the city and go, hey, we're going to dig some holes on the ground, put some tunnels in there.
9:29Joe RoganAnd they go, oh, yeah. Okay.
9:31Elon MuskNothing wrong with a hole in the ground.
9:32Joe RoganBut it's.
9:33Elon MuskPeople dig holes in the ground all the time.
9:35Joe RoganBut my question is, I know how much time you must be spending on your Tesla factory. I know how much time you must be spending on SpaceX. And yet you still have time to dig holes under the ground in LA and come up with these ideas and then implement them.
9:49Elon MuskI got a million ideas.
9:50Joe RoganI'm sure you do.
9:51Elon MuskThere's no shortage of that.
9:53Joe RoganYeah, I just don't know how you manage your time. I don't understand. Doesn't even seem humanly possible.
10:00Elon MuskYou know, I do, basically. I think people don't totally understand what I do with my time. They think, like, I'm a business guy or something like that. Like, my Wikipedia page says business magnate.
10:14Joe RoganWhat would you call yourself?
10:15Elon MuskI'm a business magnet. Can someone please change my Wikipedia page to Magnet?
10:20Joe RoganThey'll change it. Right now, it's probably changed. It's locked.
10:23Elon MuskSo somebody has to be able to unlock it and change it to Magnet. Someone will get, I want to be a magnet. No, I do engineering and manufacturing and that kind of thing.
10:35Elon MuskThat's like 80% more of my time ideas.
10:38Joe RoganAnd then the implementation of those ideas,
10:40Elon Muskthat's like hardcore engineering, like designing things, you know?
10:44Joe RoganRight.
10:47Elon MuskStructural, mechanical, electrical, software, user interface engineering, aerospace engineering.
10:56Joe RoganBut you must understand there's not a whole lot of human beings like you. You know that, right? So you're an oddity. Seems, yes, to chimps like me.
11:04Elon MuskWe're all chimps.
11:06Joe RoganYeah, we are.
11:06Elon MuskWe're one notch. One notch above a chimp.
11:08Joe RoganSome of us are a little more confused. When I watch you doing all these things, I'm like, how does this motherfucker have all this time and all this energy and all these ideas, and then people just let them do these things
11:20Elon MuskBecause I'm an alien.
11:21Joe RoganThat's what I've speculated, yes. I'm on record saying this in the past. I wonder. It's true. If there was one, I was like, if there was like, maybe an intelligent being that we created, you know, like some AI creature that's superior to people, maybe we'd just hang around with us for a little while, like you've been doing, and then fix a bunch of shit.
11:41Joe RoganMaybe that's the way.
11:43Elon MuskI might have some mutation or something like that.
11:45Joe RoganYou might. Do you think you do? Probably do you wonder, like, you around normal people, you're like, hmm, like, what's up with these boring, dumb motherfuckers ever?
11:56Elon MuskNot bad for a human. But I think we'll not be able to hold a candle to AI.
12:04Joe RoganHmm. You scare the shit out of me when you talk about AI. Between you and Sam Harris, I didn't even consider it until I had a podcast with Sam once.
12:13Joe RoganHe made me shit my pants talking about AI. I realized, like, oh, well, this is a genie that once it's out of the bottle, you're never getting it back in.
12:21Elon MuskThat's true.
12:23Joe RoganThere was a video that you tweeted about one of those Boston Dynamic robots, and you're like, in the future, it'll be moving so fast you can't see it without a strobe light.
12:35Elon MuskYeah, you could probably do that right now.
12:38Joe RoganAnd no one's really paying attention too much, other than people like you or people that are really obsessed with technology. All these things are happening and these robots are.
12:47Joe RoganDid you see the one where PETA put out a statement that you shouldn't kick robots?
12:52Elon MuskProbably not wise for retribution. Their memory is very good.
12:57Joe RoganI bet it's really good.
12:59Elon MuskIt's really good.
13:00Joe RoganI bet it is.
13:00Elon MuskYes.
13:01Joe RoganAnd getting better every day.
13:02Elon MuskIt's really good.
13:03Joe RoganAre you honestly, legitimately concerned about this? Is, like, AI one of your main worries in regards to the future?
13:16Elon MuskYes. It's less of a worry than it used to be, mostly due to taking more of a fatalistic attitude.
13:27Joe RoganSo you used to have more hope and you gave up some of it. And now you don't worry as much about AI. You're like, this is just what it is?
13:39Elon MuskPretty much, yes. No, it's not necessarily bad. It's just. It's definitely going to be outside of human control.
13:51Joe RoganNot necessarily bad, right?
13:52Elon MuskYes, it's not necessarily bad. It's just outside of human control. Now the thing that's going to be tricky here is that it's going to be very tempting to use AI as a weapon.
14:06Elon MuskIt's going to be very tempting. In fact, it will be used as a weapon. So the on ramp to serious AI, the danger is going to be more humans using it against each other.
14:23Elon MuskI think most likely that will be the danger, yeah.
14:28Joe RoganHow far do you think we are from something that can make its own mind up whether or not something's ethically or morally correct, or whether or not it wants to do something, or whether or not it wants to improve itself, or whether or not it wants to protect itself from people or from other AI?
14:43Joe RoganHow far away from something that's really truly sentient?
14:52Elon MuskWell, I mean, you could argue that any group of people, a company, is essentially a cybernetic collective of people and machines. That's what a company is. And then there are different.
15:13Elon MuskThere's different levels of complexity in the way these companies are formed. And then there's this sort of like a collective AI in the Google search, where we're all sort of plugged in as nodes on the network, like leaves on a big tree.
15:38Elon MuskAnd we're all feeding this network without questions and answers. We're all collectively programming the AI and Google plus. The older humans that connect to it are one giant cybernetic collective.
15:55Elon MuskThis is also true of Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and all these social networks. They're giant cybernetic collectives,
16:06Joe Roganhumans and electronics all interfacing and constantly now. Constantly connected.
16:11Elon MuskYes, constantly.
16:15Joe RoganOne of the things that I've been thinking about a lot over the last few years is that one of the things that drives a lot of people crazy is how many people are obsessed with materialism and getting the latest, greatest thing.
16:27Joe RoganAnd I wonder how much of that is. Well, a lot of it is most certainly fueling technology and innovation. It almost seems like it's built into us. It's like what we like and what we want, that we're fueling this thing that's constantly around us all the time.
16:41Joe RoganAnd it doesn't seem possible that people are going to pump the brakes. It doesn't seem possible at this stage where we're constantly expecting the newest cell phone, the latest Tesla Update, the newest MacBook Pro.
16:52Joe RoganEverything has to be newer and better. And that's going to lead to some incredible point. And it seems like it's built into us. It almost seems like it's an instinct that we were working towards this, that we like it.
17:10Joe RoganOur job, just like the ants build the anthill, our job is to somehow another fuel this.
17:18Elon MuskYes. I mean, when I made this comment some. Some years ago, but it feels like we are the biological bootloader for AI. Effectively, we are building it and then we're building progressively greater intelligence and the percentage of intelligence that is not human is increasing and eventually we will represent a very small percentage of intelligence.
17:50Elon MuskBut the AI is informed, strangely, by the human limbic system. It is, in large part our Idrit Lodge.
18:03Joe RoganHow so?
18:05Elon MuskWell, you mentioned all those things, the sort of primal drives. There's all the things that we like, add hate and fear. They're all there on the Internet, their projection of our limbic system.
18:32Elon MuskThat's true.
18:33Joe RoganNo, it makes sense. And the thinking of it as a. I mean, think of thinking of corporations and just thinking of just human beings communicating online through these social media networks as some sort of an organism.
18:43Joe RoganThat's a. It's a cyborg, It's a combination. It's a combination of electronics and biology.
18:50Elon MuskYeah. In some measure, like the success of these online systems is sort of a function of how much limbic resonance they're able to achieve with people. The more limbic resonance, the more engagement.
19:13Joe RoganMm. Whereas, like, one of the reasons why probably Instagram is more enticing than Twitter.
19:21Elon MuskLimbic resonance.
19:22Joe RoganYeah. You get more images, more video.
19:25Elon MuskYes.
19:26Joe RoganTweaking your system more.
19:27Elon MuskYes.
19:28Joe RoganDo you worry about or wonder, in fact about what the next step is? A lot of people didn't see Twitter coming that, you know, communicating with 140 characters or 280 now would be a thing that people would be interested in.
19:43Joe RoganLike it's going to accelerate. It's going to become more connected to us, right?
19:49Elon MuskYes. Things are getting more and more connected. They're at this point constrained by bandwidth. Our input output is slow, particularly output. Output got worse with thumbs. We used to have input with 10 fingers, now we have thumbs up.
20:06Elon MuskBut images are just. Are also. They're a way of communicating at high bandwidth. You take pictures and you send pictures to people that Communicates far more information than you can communicate with your thumbs.
20:18Joe RoganSo what happened with you, where you decided or you took on a more fatalistic attitude? Was there any specific thing or was it just the inevitability of our future?
20:38Elon MuskI try to convince people to slow down, slow down. AI to regulate AI. This was futile. I tried for years.
20:50Joe RoganThis seems seen in a movie. Robots are gonna take over and you're freaking me out. Nobody listened.
20:57Elon MuskNobody listened.
20:58Joe RoganNo one. Are people more inclined to listen today? It seems like an issue that's brought up more often over the last few years than it was maybe five, 10 years ago.
21:06Joe RoganIt seemed like science fiction.
21:10Elon MuskMaybe they will. So far they haven't. I think people don't like. Normally the way that regulations work is very slow, very slow indeed. So usually it'll be something, some new technology.
21:30Elon MuskIt will cause damage or death. There will be an outcry, there will be an investigation. Years will pass. There will be some sort of insight committee, there will be rulemaking, then there will be oversight, eventually regulations.
21:49Elon MuskThis all takes many years. This is the normal course of things. If you look at say automotive regulations, how long did it take for seat belts to be implemented, to be required?
22:02Elon MuskThe auto industry fought seatbelts, I think for more than a decade successfully fought any regulations on seat belts, Even though the numbers were extremely obvious. If you had a seat belt on, you would be far less likely to die or be seriously injured.
22:21Elon MuskIt was unequivocal. And the industry fought this for years, successfully. Eventually, after many, many people died, regulators insisted on seat belts. This is a. This time frame is not relevant to AI.
22:43Elon MuskYou can't take 10 years from the point at which it's dangerous. It's too late.
22:51Joe RoganAnd you feel like this is decades away or years away from being too late. If you have this fatalistic attitude and you feel like it's going, we're in a, almost like a doomsday countdown.
23:07Elon MuskIt's not necessarily a doomsday countdown.
23:09Joe RoganIt's a out of control countdown.
23:12Elon MuskOut of control? Yeah. People call it the singularity and that's probably a good way to think about it. It's a singularity. It's hard to predict, like a black hole, what happens past the event horizon.
23:23Joe RoganRight. So once it's implemented, it's very difficult because it will be able to, once you change out of the bottle, what's going to happen and it will be able to improve itself.
23:32Elon MuskYes.
23:34Joe RoganThat's where it gets spooky. Right. The idea that it can do thousands of years of innovation very Very quickly.
23:40Elon MuskYeah.
23:42Joe RoganAnd then we'll be just ridiculous.
23:44Elon MuskRidiculous.
23:45Joe RoganWe will be like this ridiculous biological, shitting, pissing thing trying to stop the gods. No, stop. We like living with a finite lifespan and watching Norman Rockwell paintings.
23:59Elon MuskIt could be terrible and it could be great. It's not clear.
24:03Joe RoganRight.
24:04Elon MuskBut one thing is for sure. We will not control it.
24:08Joe RoganDo you think that it's likely that we will merge somehow or another with this sort of technology and it will augment what we are now? Or do you think it will replace us?
24:24Elon MuskWell, that's the scenario. The merge scenario with AI is the one that seems like probably the best for us. Yes. If you can't beat it, join it.
24:41Joe RoganYeah.
24:45Elon MuskSo from a long term existential standpoint, that's like the purpose of neuralink is to create a high bandwidth interface to the brain such that we can be symbiotic with AI because we have a bandwidth problem.
25:04Elon MuskYou just can't communicate through your fingers. It's too slow.
25:08Joe RoganAnd where's neural link at right now?
25:13Elon MuskI think we'll have something interesting to announce in a few months that's at least an order of magnitude better than anything else. Probably. I think better than probably anyone thinks is possible.
25:23Joe RoganHow much can you talk about that right now?
25:25Elon MuskI don't want to drop the gun on that.
25:28Joe RoganBut what's like the ultimate. What's. What's the idea behind it? Like, what are you trying to accomplish with it? What would you like, best case scenario?
25:36Elon MuskI think best case scenario we effectively merge with AI where AI serves as a tertiary cognition layer, where we've got the limbic system, kind of the primitive brain. Essentially you've got the cortex.
25:55Elon MuskSo you're currently in a symbiotic relationship. Your cortex and limbic system are in a symbiotic relationship. And generally people like their cortex and they like their limbic system. I haven't met anyone who wants to delete their limbic system or delete their cortex.
26:09Elon MuskEverybody seems to like both. And the cortex is mostly in service to the limbic system. People may think that the thinking part of themselves is in charge, but it's mostly their limbic system that's in charge.
26:25Elon MuskAnd the cortex is trying to make the limbic system happy. That's what most of that computing power is oriented towards. How can I make the limbic system happy? Happy.
26:36Elon MuskThat's what I was trying to do. Now, if we do have a third layer, which is the AI extension of yourself, that is also symbiotic and there's enough bandwidth between the cortex and the AI extension of yourself such that the AI doesn't de facto separate, then that could be a good outcome.
27:01Elon MuskThat could be quite a positive outcome for the future.
27:03Joe RoganSo instead of replacing us, it will radically change our capabilities.
27:08Elon MuskYes, it will enable anyone who wants to have superhuman cognition. Anyone who wants. This is not a matter of earning power, because your earning power would be vastly greater after you do it.
27:25Elon MuskSo it's just like anyone who wants can just do it in theory. That's the theory. And if that's the case, then, and let's say billions of people do it, then the outcome for humanity will be the sum of human will, the sum of billions of people's desire for the future.
27:56Joe RoganBut billions of people with enhanced cognitive ability. Radically enhanced, yes. Which would be how much different than people today? Like if you had to explain it to a person who didn't really understand what you were saying.
28:12Joe RoganHow much different are you talking about when you say radically improved? Like, what do you mean? You mean mind reading?
28:20Elon MuskIt would be difficult to really appreciate the difference. It's kind of like how much smarter are you with a phone or computer than without? You're vastly smarter, actually. You can answer any question if you're connected to the Internet.
28:38Elon MuskYou can answer any question pretty much instantly. Any calculation that your phone's memory is essentially perfect. You can remember flawlessly. Your phone can remember videos, pictures, everything perfectly. Your phone is already an extension of you.
28:58Elon MuskYou're already a cyborg. You don't even. Well, most people don't realize they are already a cyborg. That phone is an extension of yourself. It's just that the data rate, the rate at which the communication rate between you and the cybernetic extension of yourself that is your phone and computer is slow.
29:19Elon MuskIt's very slow. And it's like a tiny straw of information flow between your biological self and your digital self. And we need to make that tiny straw like a giant river.
29:38Elon MuskHuge high bandwidth interface. It's an interface problem. Data rate problem. Solve the data rate problem. Then I think we can hang on to human machine symbiosis through the long term.
29:58Elon MuskAnd then people may decide that they want to retain their biological self or not. I think they'll probably choose to retain
30:05Joe Rogantheir biological self versus some sort of Ray Kurzweil scenario where they download themselves into a computer.
30:12Elon MuskYou will be essentially snapshotted into a computer at any time. If your biological self dies, you could just probably just upload into a new unit, literally.
30:22Joe RoganPass that whiskey. We're getting crazy over here. This is getting ridiculous.
30:27Elon MuskDown the rabbit hole.
30:28Joe RoganGrab that sucker. Give me some of that. This is too freaky. See if I've been thinking about this
30:34Elon Muskfor a long time.
30:35Joe RoganBy the way, I believe you have. If I was talking to one. Cheers, by the way.
30:38Elon MuskCheers. Yeah. This is a great whiskey.
30:40Joe RoganThank you. I know where this came from. Who brought this to us? Trying to remember somebody gave it to us. Old camp. Whoever it was, thanks. Yeah, it is good.
30:51Joe RoganThis is just inevitable. Again, going back to your. When you decided to have this fatalistic viewpoint. So you warned. You tried to warn people. You talked about this pretty extensively.
31:00Joe RoganI've read several interviews where you talked about this. And then you just sort of just said, okay, it just is. Let's just. And you. In a way you're. By communicating the potential fear.
31:11Joe RoganI mean, for sure, you're. You're getting the warning out to some people.
31:15Elon MuskYeah, yeah. I mean, I was really going on the warning quite, quite a lot. I was warning everyone I could. You ever met with Obama and just for one reason.
31:32Joe RoganLook, about AI?
31:33Elon MuskYes.
31:34Joe RoganAnd what did he say? So what about Hillary?
31:37Elon MuskWorry about her first sh.
31:39Joe RoganEverybody be quiet.
31:40Elon MuskNo, he listened. He certainly listened. I met with Congress. I met with. I was at a meeting of all 50 governors and talked about just AI danger. And I talked to everyone I could.
32:00Elon MuskNo one seemed to realize where this was going.
32:05Joe RoganIs it that? Or do they just assume that someone smarter than them has already taken care of it? Because when people hear about something like AI, it's almost abstract.
32:14Joe RoganIt's almost. It's almost like it's so. It's so hard to wrap your head around it. By the time it already happens, it'll be too late.
32:22Elon MuskYeah, I think they didn't quite understand it or didn't think it was near term or not sure what to do about it. When I said, like, you know, an obvious thing to do is to just establish a committee, government committee, to gain insight, you know, before you do oversight, before you do make regulations, try to understand what's going on.
32:49Elon MuskAnd then if you have an insight committee, then once they learn what's going on, get up to speed, then they can make maybe some rules or propose some rules, and that would be probably a safer way to go about things.
33:06Joe RoganIt seems. I mean, I know that it's probably something that the government's supposed to handle, but it seems like I wouldn't want the. I don't want the government to handle this.
33:15Elon MuskWho do you want to.
33:16Joe RoganI want you to handle.
33:17Elon MuskOh, geez.
33:17Joe RoganYeah, I feel like, you're the one who could ring the bell better. Because if. If Mike Pence starts talking about AI, I'm like, shut up, bitch. You don't know anything about AI.
33:26Joe RoganCome on, man. He doesn't know what he's talking about.
33:28Elon MuskBut I don't have the power to regulate other companies. What am I supposed to.
33:33Joe RoganBut maybe companies could agree. Maybe there could be some sort of a. I mean, there's. We have agreements where you're not supposed to dump toxic waste into the ocean.
33:41Joe RoganYou're not supposed to do certain things that could be terribly damaging, even though they'd be profitable. Maybe this is one of those things. Maybe we should realize that you can't hit the switch on something that's going to be able to think for itself and make up its own mind as to whether or not it wants to survive or not, and whether or not it thinks you're a threat and whether or not it thinks you're useless.
34:00Joe RoganLike, why do I keep this dumb finite life form alive?
34:05Elon MuskWhy.
34:05Joe RoganWhy keep this thing around? It's just stupid. It just keeps polluting everything, shitting everywhere it goes, lighting everything on fire and shooting each other. Why would I keep this stupid thing alive?
34:15Joe RoganBecause sometimes it makes good music, you know, Sometimes it makes great movies, sometimes it makes beautiful art. And sometimes, you know, sometimes it's cool to hang out with, like, all those reasons.
34:25Joe RoganYeah, for us, those are great reasons.
34:27Elon MuskYes.
34:27Joe RoganBut for anything objective, standing outside, like, oh, this is definitely a flawed system. This is like, if you went to the jungle and you watch these chimps engage in warfare and beat each other with mean sticks.
34:36Joe RoganThey're fucking real mean.
34:37Elon MuskFucking mean.
34:37Joe RoganThey're real mean.
34:38Elon MuskI saw that movie Chimpanzee. I thought it was gonna be like some Disney thing.
34:40Joe RoganLike, holy cow, what movie was that?
34:42Elon MuskLooks pretty cool. Chimpanzee who?
34:44Joe RoganIs it a documentary?
34:45Elon MuskYeah, yeah, it's kind of like a documentary. I was like, damn, these chimps are mean.
34:50Joe RoganThey're mean.
34:51Elon MuskYeah. They're cruel.
34:53Joe RoganYeah. They're. They're calculated. Yeah.
34:55Elon MuskYeah.
34:56Joe RoganThey sneak up on each other and,
34:58Elon Musklike, I didn't realize chimps did calculated cruelty.
35:01Joe RoganMm. Yeah.
35:02Elon MuskI was pretty left that meeting, kind of thinking, whoa, this is dark, right?
35:07Joe RoganWell, we know better because we've advanced. But if we hadn't, we'd be like, man, I don't want to live in a house. I like the chimp ways, bro. Chimp ways to go.
35:16Joe RoganThis is it, man. Chimp life. I know, but we, in a way, to the AI might be like, those Chimps. I'm like, these stupid. Launching missiles out of drones and shooting each other underwater like, we're crazy.
35:32Joe RoganWe got torpedoes and submarines and airplanes that drop nuclear bombs indiscriminately on cities or. Yeah, they might go, why are they doing this? It might. Like, look at our politics.
35:48Joe RoganLook at what we do in terms of our food system, what kind of food. We force down each other's throats. And they might go, these people are crazy. Don't even look out for themselves.
35:59Elon MuskI don't know. I mean, how much do we think about chimps? Not much.
36:02Joe RoganVery little.
36:03Elon MuskIt's like these chimps are at war. These little chimps. It's like groups of chimps just attack each other and they kill each other. They torture each other. That's pretty bad.
36:16Elon MuskThey hunt monkeys. They're. But, like, this is probably the most that. You know. I mean, when's the last time you talked about chimps?
36:27Joe RoganMe? Yeah, all the time.
36:28Elon MuskYou do.
36:28Joe RoganTalking to the world. Okay, well, unfortunately, podcast dude, I talk about chimps every episode.
36:33Elon MuskOkay.
36:34Joe RoganPeople are laughing right now. Yeah, constantly. I'm obsessed. I saw that David Attenborough documentary on chimps where they were eating those colobus monkeys and ripping them apart. I saw that many, many years ago.
36:45Joe RoganIt just changed how I go. Oh, this is why people are so crazy. We came from that thing.
36:50Elon MuskYeah, exactly.
36:51Joe RoganYeah.
36:52Elon MuskAnd there's the bonobos.
36:53Joe RoganYeah.
36:53Elon MuskThey got a, like, better philosophy.
36:55Joe RoganYeah. They're like swingers. Yeah, they really are. They seem to be way more even than us, way more civilized.
37:05Elon MuskThey just seem to resolve everything with sex.
37:08Joe RoganYeah. The only rules they have is the mom won't bang the son. That's it.
37:11Elon MuskOkay, that's it.
37:12Joe RoganMom won't bang her sons. They're good women.
37:15Elon MuskYeah.
37:16Joe RoganGood women in the bonobo community. Everybody else just banging it out.
37:19Elon MuskYeah. I haven't seen the bonobo movie.
37:24Joe RoganWell, they're disturbing. Just at a zoo, you know, you have bonobos at the zoo.
37:27Elon MuskThey're just constantly going.
37:28Joe RoganConstantly fucking. Yeah. That's all they do. Yeah. And they don't care. Gay, straight, whatever. Let's just. What's with these labels?
37:38Elon MuskI haven't seen bonobos at a zoo. It's probably, like, not on the PG section. Yeah.
37:42Joe RoganI don't think they have them at many zoos. We've looked that up before, too.
37:45Elon MuskIt's probably pretty awkward.
37:46Joe RoganI think that's the thing. They like to keep regular chimps at zoos because bonobos are just always jacking off.
37:52Elon MuskYeah.
37:53Joe RoganWhat's that they have in San Diego.
37:54Elon MuskSan Diego. Really?
37:55Joe RoganInteresting. Probably separate them. Yeah.
37:59Elon MuskI mean, how many other. In a cage, you know, it's like. It's gonna be pretty intense.
38:02Joe RoganYeah, yeah, yeah. We're a weird thing, you know, And I've often wondered if whether or not we're, you know, our ultimate goal is to give birth to some new thing and that, that's why we're so obsessed with technology.
38:15Joe RoganBecause it's not like this technology is really. I mean, it's certainly enhancing our lives in a certain way. But is, I mean, ultimately, is it making people happier right now?
38:26Joe RoganMost technology, I would say no. In fact, you and I were talking about social media before this, about just not having Instagram on your phone and not dealing. You feel better.
38:35Elon MuskYes. I think one of the issues with social media that's been pointed out by many people is that I think maybe particularly Instagram people look like they have a much better life than they really do.
38:52Joe RoganRight. By design.
38:55Elon MuskYeah. People are posting pictures of when they're really happy. They're modifying those pictures to be better looking. Even if they're not modifying the pictures, they're at least selecting the pictures for the best lighting, the best angle.
39:09Elon MuskSo people basically seem. They're way better looking than they basically really are, and they're way happier seeming than they really are. So if you look at everyone on Instagram, you might think, man, there are all these happy, beautiful people and I'm not that good looking and I'm not happy, so I must suck, you know, and that's gonna make people sad.
39:36Elon MuskSo when in fact those people you think are super happy, actually not that happy. Some of them are really depressed. They're very sad. Some of the happiest seeming people, actually some of the saddest people in reality.
39:53Elon MuskAnd nobody looks good all the time. Doesn't matter who you are.
39:56Joe RoganNo, it's not even something you should want. Why do you want to look great all the time?
40:02Elon MuskYeah, exactly. So I think things like that can make people quite sad just by comparison, because you just sort of. People generally think of themselves relative to others. It's a.
40:16Elon MuskWe are constantly re baselining our expectations. And you can see this. Say if you watch some show like Naked and Afraid, or if you just go and try living in the woods by yourself for a while and you'll learn that civilization is quite great.
40:37Elon MuskPeople want to come back to civilization pretty fast. On Naked and Afraid.
40:40Joe RoganWasn't that a Thoreau quote? The comparison is a thief of joy.
40:45Elon MuskYeah, well, happiness is reality minus Expectations.
40:51Joe RoganThat's great too. But the comparison is a thief of joy really holds true to people. Is it Theodore Roosevelt? Roosevelt. Fascinating when you're thinking about Instagram, because what essentially Instagram is with a lot of people is you're giving them the opportunity to be their own PR agent and they always go towards the glamorous, you know, and when any.
41:11Joe RoganAnybody does show, you know, hashtag no filter, they really do do that. Like, oh, you're so brave. Look at you. No makeup, you know. Yeah, they look good anyway.
41:21Joe RoganYou look great. What are you doing? Oh, my God, you don't have makeup on. You still look hot as fuck. You know what you're doing? I know what you're doing, too.
41:27Joe RoganThey're. They're, they're letting you know. And then they're feeding off that comment section. Ooh, just look sitting there like. Like it's a fresh stream of love. Like you're getting right up to the source as it comes out of the earth and you're suc.
41:40Elon MuskA lot of emojis. Emojis. Emojis, yeah, a lot of emojis.
41:45Joe RoganMy concern is not so much what Instagram is, is that I didn't think that people had the need for this or the expectation for some sort of technology that allows them to constantly get love and adulation from strangers and comments and this ability to project this sort of distorted version of who you really are.
42:03Joe RoganBut I worry about where it goes, like, what's the next one? What's the next one? Like, where is it? Is it going to be augmented? Some sort of a weird augmented or virtual sort of Instagram type situation where you're not going to want to live in this real world, you're going to want to interface with this sort of world that you've created through your social media page.
42:23Joe RoganSome next level thing.
42:25Elon MuskYeah, Go live in the simulation. Yeah, in the simulation.
42:29Joe RoganSome ready Player one type shit. That's real. That. Seems we have that HTC Vive here. I've only done it a couple times, quite honestly, because it kind of freaks me out.
42:38Elon MuskSure.
42:38Joe RoganMy kids fucking love it, man. They love it. They love playing these weirdo games and, and walking around with that headset on. But part of me watching them do it goes, wow, I wonder if this is like the precursor.
42:51Joe RoganJust sort of like, if you look at that, that phone that Gordon Gekko had on the beach. Yeah. You pair that to like a Galaxy Note 9. How the fuck did that become that?
43:01Joe RoganRight? And I wonder when I see this HTC Vive, I'M like, what is that thing going to be 10 years from now when we're making fun of what it is now?
43:09Joe RoganWhat is it? How, I mean, how ingrained and how, how, how connected and interconnected is this technology going to be in our life?
43:21Elon MuskIt will be at some point indistinguishable from reality where we'll lose this.
43:28Joe RoganWe lose this. Like you and I just look at each other through our eyes. I see you, see me. I think.
43:32Elon MuskI hope you think so.
43:33Joe RoganI think you probably have regular eyes.
43:36Elon MuskThis could be some simulation.
43:38Joe RoganIt could. Do you entertain that?
43:43Elon MuskWell, the argument for the simulation, I think is quite strong because if you assume any improvements at all over time, any improvement 1%, 0.1%, just extend the time frame.
43:57Elon MuskMake it a thousand years, a million years. The universe is 13.8 billion years old. Civilization, if you counted, if you're very generous, civilization is maybe 7 or 8,000 years old, if you count it from the first writing, this is nothing.
44:14Elon MuskThis is nothing. So if you assume any rate of improvement at all, then games will be indistinguishable from reality or civilization will end. One of those two things will occur.
44:37Elon MuskTherefore, we are most likely in a
44:39Joe Rogansimulation or we're on our way to one, right? Well, just because we exist, we could most certainly be on the road. We could be on the road to that, right?
44:48Joe RoganIt doesn't mean it has to.
44:50Elon MuskIt could be in base reality. It could be in base reality.
44:52Joe RoganWe could be here now on our way to the road or on our way to the destination where this can never happen again, where we are completely ingrained in some sort of an artificial technology or some sort of a symbiotic relationship with the Internet or the next level of sharing information.
45:11Joe RoganBut right now we're not there yet. That's possible too, right? It's possible that a simulation is one day going to be inevitable, that we're gonna have something that's indistinguishable from regular reality.
45:20Joe RoganBut maybe we're not there yet. That's also possible. We're not quite there yet. That this is real. When I touch, that feels very real. Maybe that's why everybody's like in like Mason jars and shit.
45:32Elon MuskMason jars.
45:32Joe RoganWait, shoes. People are in like craft restaurants and they would. They want raw wood. Everyone says, everyone wants to see metal people. It seems like people are like longing towards some weird log cabin type nostalgia reality.
45:45Joe RoganYeah, like holding on, like clinging, just dragging their nails through the mud. Like, don't take me. Yes, I want to.
45:53Elon MuskBut then, But Then people will go get a mason jar with a wine stem or a handle that's dark. Makes me lose faith in humanity.
46:01Joe RoganWine stem and a handle. They have those?
46:03Elon MuskYes.
46:03Joe RoganOh, those dirty people. That's just assholes. That's like people make pet rocks rough. Right. Some people are just. They take advantage of our. Our generous nature.
46:13Elon MuskIt was made with a wine stem made with a handle.
46:17Joe RoganThey made it that way.
46:18Elon MuskYes.
46:18Joe RoganSo the. It wasn't manufactured like that onto the mason. Ah, you.
46:22Elon MuskThat would be fine if there was. They glued it on or something. But it was made that way.
46:28Joe RoganWhite trash chic. Oh, this is disgusting. Look at this. It is.
46:31Elon MuskYep.
46:32Joe RoganThis is terrible. Yeah. That's like fake breasts that are designed to be hard. Like fake breasts from the 60s. It's like if you really long for the ones with ripples.
46:47Joe RoganHere we go. Yeah. That's almost what that is.
46:51Elon MuskYeah.
46:52Joe RoganWhat are you gonna do, man? There's nothing. You know something you do stop certain terrible ideas from propagating.
46:59Elon MuskYeah. Anyway, I don't want to sound like things are too dark because I think you kind of have to be optimistic about the future. There's no point in being pessimistic.
47:14Elon MuskIt's just too negative. It doesn't help. It doesn't help. You know, I think you want to be. I mean, my theory is like, you'd rather be optimistic. I think I'd rather be optimistic and wrong than pessimistic and right.
47:28Joe RoganRight.
47:28Elon MuskAt least err on that side.
47:30Joe RoganRight. Yeah.
47:31Elon MuskBecause if you're pessimistic, you're just going to be as miserable.
47:34Joe RoganYeah, yeah. Nobody wants to be around you anyway. If it's the end of the world, you're like, I fucking told you, bro.
47:41Elon MuskYeah.
47:42Joe RoganThe world ending. Yeah. It is what it is.
47:46Elon MuskI mean, enjoy the journey.
47:48Joe RoganRight. If you really want to get morose. I mean, it is what it is for all of us anyway. We're all gonna go unless some something changes.
47:56Elon MuskYeah. I mean, ultimately, you know, even if we just sort of existed as humans forever, we'd be. We'd still. Eventually. That'd be like the heat death of the universe.
48:06Joe RoganRight.
48:06Elon MuskA zillion years from now. Right.
48:08Joe RoganEven if we get it past the sun, if we figure out a way past the sun running out of juice,
48:13Elon Muskeventually it's going to end. It's just a question of when. Right. So it really is all about the
48:18Joe Roganjourney or transcendence from whatever we are now into something that doesn't worry about death.
48:27Elon MuskThe universe as we know it will dissipate into a fine mist of cold nothingness eventually.
48:36Joe RoganAnd then someone's going to bottle it and put a fragrance to it, sell it to French people in another dimension.
48:42Elon MuskIt's just a very long time. So I think it's really just about how can we make it last longer.
48:48Joe RoganAre you a proponent of the multi universes theory? Do you believe that there are many, many universes and that even if this one fades out, that there's other ones that are starting fresh right now and there's an infinite number of them and they're just constantly in this never ending cycle of birth and death?
49:08Elon MuskI think most likely this is just about probability. There are many, many simulations. These simulations are, we might as well call them reality, or you could call them multiverse.
49:20Joe RoganThese simulations you believe are created like someone has manufactured.
49:23Elon MuskThey're running on a substrate. So that substrate is probably boring.
49:29Joe RoganBoring? How so?
49:32Elon MuskWell, when we create a simulation like a game or a movie, it's a distillation of what's interesting about life. You know, like it takes a year to shoot an action movie and then that's all distilled down into two or three hours.
49:50Elon MuskSo let me tell you, if you see an action movie being filmed, it's boring. Super boring. Takes, there's like lots of takes. Everything's in a green screen. Looks pretty goofy, doesn't look cool.
50:04Elon MuskBut once you add the cgi, it's, and have great editing, it's amazing. So I think most likely if we're a simulation, it's really boring outside the simulation because why would you make a simulation that's boring?
50:23Elon MuskIt makes simulation way more interesting than base reality.
50:26Joe RoganThat is if this right now is a simulation.
50:29Elon MuskYes.
50:30Joe RoganAnd ultimately, inevitably, as long as we don't die or get hit by a meteor, we're going to create some sort of simulation. If we continue on the same technological path we're on right now.
50:41Elon MuskYes.
50:42Joe RoganBut we might not be there yet. So it might not be a simulation here, but it most likely is. You feel other places,
50:52Elon Muskthis notion of place or where is flawed. Yes.
50:57Joe RoganFlawed perception like that.
50:59Elon MuskIf you have this sort of that vive, you know, that's made by Valve and it's really Valve that made it. HTC did the hardware, but it's really a Valve thing.
51:15Joe RoganMakers of Half Life.
51:16Elon MuskYes, Valve. Great company, Great company.
51:26Elon MuskWhen you're in that virtual reality, which is only going to get better. Where are you? Where are you really? You aren't anywhere. You're in the computer.
51:41Joe RoganWhat defines where you are exactly?
51:43Elon MuskIt's Your perception.
51:44Joe RoganIs it your perceptions or is it a scale that we have under your butt?
51:48Elon MuskYou're right here.
51:48Joe RoganI've measured you. You're the same weight as you were when you left. Meanwhile, your experience.
51:53Elon MuskWhy do you think you're where you are right now? You might not be.
51:56Joe RoganI'll spark up a joint if you keep talking. Your manager's gonna come in here. We might have to lock the door right now.
52:02Elon MuskYou think you're in a studio in la?
52:03Joe RoganThat's what I heard.
52:04Elon MuskYou might be in a computer.
52:05Joe RoganOh, listen, man, I think about this all the time. Yeah. I mean, it's unquestionable that one day that'll be the case. As long as we keep going, as long as nothing interrupts us.
52:17Joe RoganAnd if we start from scratch and, you know, we're single celled organisms all over again and then millions and millions of years later, we become the next thing, that is us.
52:27Joe RoganWith creativity and the ability to change its environment. It's going to keep monkeying with things until it figures out a way to change reality, to change. I mean, almost like punch a hole through what is this thing into what, what it wants it to be, and create new things, and then those new things will intersect with other people's new things.
52:47Joe RoganAnd then it'll be this ultimate pathway of infinite ideas and expression all through technology.
52:56Elon MuskYeah.
52:57Joe RoganAnd then we're wonder, we're going to wonder like, why are we here? What are we doing?
53:03Elon MuskLet's find out. Well, I think we should take the actions, the set of actions that are most likely to make the future better.
53:14Joe RoganYes. Right. Yeah, Right, right.
53:17Elon MuskAnd then reevaluate those actions to make sure that it's true.
53:21Joe RoganWell, I think there's a movement to that. I mean, in terms of like a social movement. I think some of it's misguided and some of it's exaggerated and there's a lot of.
53:29Joe RoganA lot of people that are fighting for their side out there. But it seems like the general trend of, like, social awareness seems to be much more heightened now than has ever been in any other time in history because of our ability to express ourselves instantaneously to each other through Facebook or Twitter or what have you.
53:50Joe RoganAnd that the trend is to abandon preconceived notions, abandoned prejudice, abandoned discrimination, and promote kindness and happiness as much as possible. Looking at this knife, somebody gave it to me.
54:05Joe RoganSorry.
54:05Elon MuskYeah. What is this?
54:06Joe RoganWhat the fuck did you do? My friend Donnie, he brought this with him and it just stayed here. I have a real samurai sword, if you Want to play with that?
54:13Joe RoganI know you're into weapons. That's from the 1500s. Samurai sword at the end of the table.
54:17Elon MuskYeah, that's cool.
54:17Joe RoganI'll grab it. Hold on.
54:26Joe RoganYeah, that's a legit samurai sword from an actual samurai from the 1500s. If you pull out that blade. That blade was made the old way, where a master craftsman folded that metal and hammered it down over and over again over a long period of time and honed that blade into what it is now.
54:47Joe RoganWhat's crazy is that more than 500 years later, that thing is still pristine. I mean, whoever took care of that and passed it down to the next person who took care of it and.
54:59Joe RoganAnd, you know, until it got to the podcast room. It's pretty fucking crazy.
55:03Elon MuskYeah.
55:04Joe RoganOne day, someone's gonna be looking at a Tesla like that. Dude, these fucking back doors, they pop up sideways like a Lamborghini.
55:17Elon MuskYou should see what the Tesla can do. You didn't. You should. I'll show you afterwards.
55:22Joe RoganWell, I've driven one. I love them.
55:23Elon MuskYeah, but most people don't know what
55:25Joe Roganit can do in terms of, like, ludicrous mode. In terms of, like, driving super fast and irresponsibly on public roads. Is that what you're saying?
55:32Elon MuskWell, any car can do that.
55:34Joe RoganYeah. What can it do that I need to know about?
55:39Elon MuskI mean, the Model X can do this, like, ballet thing to the Trans Siberian Orchestra. It's pretty cool.
55:44Joe RoganWhere it dances.
55:45Elon MuskYes.
55:45Joe RoganLegitimately. Like, it moves around.
55:48Elon MuskYes.
55:51Joe RoganWhy would you program that into a car?
55:55Elon MuskSeemed like fun.
55:56Joe RoganThat's what I get about you. That's what's weird. Like, when you showed up here, you were all smiles, and you pull out a fucking blowtorch. And not a blowtorch, but I'm like, look at this, dude.
56:05Elon MuskA flamethrower.
56:05Joe RoganNot a flamethrower.
56:06Elon MuskI want to be clear. It's definitely not a flamethrower.
56:08Joe RoganYou're having fun. Like, this is, like this thing when, you know, you program a car to do a ballet dance. You're having fun. How do you have the time to do that?
56:19Joe RoganI don't understand why you're digging holes under the earth and sending rockets into space and powering people in Australia. Like, how the fuck do you have time to make the car dance ballet?
56:31Elon MuskWell, I mean, in that case, there were some engineers at Tesla that said, you know, what if we make this car dance and play music? I was like, that sounds great.
56:45Elon MuskPlease do it. Let's try to get it done in time. For Christmas. We did.
56:50Joe RoganIs there a concern about someone just losing their mind and making it do that on the highway?
56:54Elon MuskNo, it won't do that.
56:55Joe RoganWhat if it's in bumper to bumper traffic?
56:57Elon MuskNope.
56:58Joe RoganNo, won't do it.
57:00Elon MuskNope. Actually, you have to. It's an Easter egg.
57:03Joe RoganOh, it's an Easter egg.
57:04Elon MuskYeah. That's why people don't know about it. Including people have the car. Well, it's like it could do lots of things. Lots of things.
57:10Joe RoganOnce Reddit gets a hold of it, everyone's gonna.
57:13Elon MuskOh, you just have. It's everyone. If you search for it on the Internet, you will find out. But people don't know that they should even search for it.
57:20Joe RoganOh, well, they do now.
57:22Elon MuskYes.
57:23Joe RoganYes.
57:23Elon MuskThere's so many things about the Model X and the Model S and the Model 3 that people don't know about. We should probably do a video or something and explain it because I have close friends of mine and I say, do you know the car can do this?
57:38Elon MuskAnd they're like, nope.
57:41Joe RoganDo you want to do a video of that or do you like the fact that some people don't know?
57:46Elon MuskNo, I think it's probably not. We should tell people.
57:49Joe RoganYeah, probably.
57:49Elon MuskYes.
57:50Joe RoganThat would help your product. I mean, it's not like you don't sell enough of them. You sell almost too many of them. Right.
57:59Elon MuskBe. I mean, I think a Tesla is the most fun thing you could possibly buy ever. That's what it's meant to be. Well, our goal is to make it's.
58:14Elon MuskIt's not exactly a car. It's actually a thing to maximize enjoyment, make its maximum fun.
58:23Joe RoganOkay. Electronic, like big screen laptop. Ridiculous speed, handling, all that stuff.
58:33Elon MuskYeah.
58:33Joe RoganDo you, you have.
58:34Elon MuskAnd we're gonna put video games in it.
58:36Joe RoganYou are?
58:36Elon MuskYeah.
58:37Joe RoganIs that wise?
58:39Elon MuskWell, you won't be able to drive while you're playing the video game, but we're like, for example, we're just putting the Atari emulator ROM emulator in it so you'll be able to play Missile Command and Lunar Lander and a bunch of other things.
58:52Joe RoganYeah, that sounds cool.
58:54Elon MuskIt's pretty fun.
58:55Joe RoganI like that.
58:55Elon MuskYeah. And we improved the interface of Missile Command because it was too hard with the old trackball. So this is a touchscreen version of Missile Command. So you have a chance.
59:07Joe RoganDo you, you have an old car, don't you? Don't you have like an old Jaguar?
59:11Elon MuskYeah. How'd you know that? That's. Most people don't know. I have a 61 Series 1E type Jaguar.
59:17Joe RoganI love cars.
59:18Elon MuskIt's great.
59:18Joe RoganYeah, I love old cars. That's one of the.
59:22Elon MuskYeah. The only two, only two gasoline cars I have are that and an old, like a Ford Model T that a friend of mine gave me. That's my only two gasoline cars.
59:33Joe RoganIs the Ford Model T, all stock.
59:35Elon MuskWell.
59:35Joe RoganOh, there's your car.
59:37Elon MuskI have the convertible.
59:39Joe RoganThat is a gorgeous car. God, that's a good looking car.
59:44Elon MuskYes.
59:45Joe RoganIs that yours?
59:46Elon MuskThat is. It's not mine. It's extremely close to mine, but I don't have a French license plate of mine.
59:52Joe RoganOh, it's a beautiful car. They nailed that.
59:55Elon MuskThat's mine looks like that.
59:56Joe RoganGod, they nailed that.
59:57Elon MuskThat's what mine looks like. Maybe that is mine.
1:00:00Joe RoganThere's certain iconic shapes.
1:00:02Elon MuskYes.
1:00:03Joe RoganAnd there's. There's something about those cars too. They're not as capable, not nearly as capable as like a Tesla, but there's something really satisfying about the mechanical aspect of like feeling the steering and the grinding of the gears and the shifting.
1:00:20Joe RoganThere's something about those that's extremely satisfying, even though they're not that competent. Like, I have a 1993 Porsche 964. It's like a lightweight. It's not in the RS America.
1:00:33Joe RoganIt's not very fast. It's not like in comparison to a Tesla or anything like that. But the thing about it is, like, it's mechanical feel. Everything's like. It's like.
1:00:44Joe RoganIt gives you this weird thrill. Like you're on this clinky ride and there's all this feedback. There's something to that.
1:00:52Elon MuskYeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, yeah. My E type is like basically no electronics.
1:00:58Joe RoganYeah. So you like that, but you also like electronics.
1:01:03Elon MuskYes.
1:01:04Joe RoganLike your Tesla soup. It's like the far end of electronics.
1:01:09Elon MuskYes.
1:01:10Joe RoganDrives itself.
1:01:11Elon MuskIt's driving itself better every day.
1:01:14Joe RoganYeah.
1:01:15Elon MuskIt's like we're about to release the software that will enable you to just turn it on. And it'll drive from highway on ramp to highway exit, do lane changes to overtake other cars to go from one interchange to the next.
1:01:27Elon MuskIf you get on, say the 405 and get on, get off 300 miles later and go through several highway interchanges and just overtake other cars and hook into the nav system and then.
1:01:41Joe RoganAnd you're just meditating home cars, just traveling.
1:01:46Elon MuskIt's kind of eerie. It's kind of eerie.
1:01:48Joe RoganWhat did you think when you saw that video? That dude falling asleep behind the wheel? I'm sure you've seen it. The one in San Francisco. He's like, right outside of San Jose.
1:01:56Joe RoganDude's out cold like this. And the car's in bumper to bumper traffic moving along. Yeah, you've seen it, right?
1:02:03Elon MuskYeah, yeah.
1:02:03Joe RoganWe changed the software.
1:02:05Elon MuskWe changed the software. That's I think an old video. We changed software where if you don't touch the wheel, it will gradually slow down and put the emergency lights on.
1:02:15Elon MuskWake you up.
1:02:15Joe RoganOh, that's hilarious. Yeah, that's hilarious.
1:02:18Elon MuskYeah.
1:02:19Joe RoganCan you choose what voice wakes you up?
1:02:21Elon MuskWell, it's sort of more of a. It sort of honks.
1:02:24Joe RoganOh, it honks.
1:02:25Elon MuskYeah.
1:02:25Joe RoganThis should be like, wake up, fuckface. You're endangering your fellow humans.
1:02:29Elon MuskWe could, we could gently wake you up with a sultry voice.
1:02:31Joe RoganAh, that would be good. Like something with a southern accent. Hey, wake up.
1:02:36Elon MuskWake up, sunshine.
1:02:37Joe RoganHey, sweetie.
1:02:38Elon MuskExactly.
1:02:39Joe RoganWhy don't you wake up?
1:02:40Elon MuskYou like pick. You could pick your.
1:02:42Joe RoganRight, Like Siri.
1:02:43Elon MuskPick what you want.
1:02:43Joe RoganYeah, I choose the Australian girl for Siri.
1:02:45Elon MuskYeah.
1:02:46Joe RoganI like her voice.
1:02:46Elon MuskDo you want it seductive?
1:02:49Joe RoganI like Australian.
1:02:50Elon MuskWhat flavor of. Do you want her to be angry? Could be anything.
1:02:52Joe RoganDo you want those Australian prison lady jeans? Now, when you program something like that in, is this in response to a concern or is it your own? Do you look at it and go, hey, they shouldn't just be able to fall asleep.
1:03:06Joe RoganWake them up.
1:03:08Elon MuskYeah, yeah. It's like, you know, we're like, well, you know, people falling asleep. We've got to do something about that.
1:03:16Joe RoganRight? But when you first released it, you didn't consider it. Right. You're just like, well, no one's going to just sleep.
1:03:22Elon MuskPeople fall asleep in cars all the time.
1:03:24Joe RoganAll the time.
1:03:25Elon MuskAnd crash.
1:03:25Joe RoganYeah.
1:03:26Elon MuskAt least our car doesn't crash. That's better. It's better not to crash. Imagine if that guy had fallen asleep in a gasoline car. They do it all the time.
1:03:34Joe RoganFor sure. Yeah.
1:03:34Elon MuskAnd they were crashing somebody.
1:03:36Joe RoganYeah.
1:03:37Elon MuskIn fact, the thing that really, you know, got me to. It's like, man, we better get autopilot going. Get it out. There was a guy was in an early Tesla driving down the highway and he fell asleep and he ran over a cyclist and killed him.
1:03:54Elon MuskAnd cyclist was like, man, if we had autopilot wouldn't have run out of. He might have fallen asleep, but at least he wouldn't have run over that cyclist.
1:04:04Joe RoganSo how did you implement it? Like, did you just use cameras programmed with the system so that if it sees images, it slows down? And how much time do you give?
1:04:18Joe RoganIs the person who's in control of it allowed to program how fast it goes.
1:04:22Elon MuskYes. Yeah. You can program it to be more or less, more conservative, like more aggressive driver. And you can say what speed you want it to. What. What speed is.
1:04:35Joe RoganOkay, I know you have ludicrous mode. Do you have douchebag mode? Well, it just cuts people off.
1:04:43Elon MuskWell, for, for lane changes, it's tricky because if you're in like la, like, unless you're pretty aggressive.
1:04:50Joe RoganRight.
1:04:50Elon MuskIt's pretty. It's hard to change lanes sometimes.
1:04:52Joe RoganIt's hard to be Satnam. It's hard to be Namaste out here in la.
1:04:56Elon MuskYeah, you get.
1:04:57Joe RoganIf you want to hit that Santa Monica Boulevard off ramp, I mean, you
1:05:01Elon Muskgot to be a little pushy.
1:05:02Joe RoganYou got to be a little pushy.
1:05:03Elon MuskYeah, Especially the freeway.
1:05:04Joe RoganAngry. Yeah, a little angry. They don't want you in. They speed up sometimes.
1:05:08Elon MuskYou know, I think people like, overall are pretty nice on the highway, even in la, but sometimes they're not.
1:05:14Joe RoganDo you think the neural link will help that clink? Probably everybody be locked in together, this hive mind.
1:05:20Elon MuskTunnels will help it. We're have traffic.
1:05:23Joe RoganThat'll help a lot.
1:05:24Elon MuskYeah.
1:05:24Joe RoganHow many of those can you put in there?
1:05:28Elon MuskThat's the thing about tunnels is you can go 3D, so you can go many levels.
1:05:32Joe RoganRight. So until you hit hell, yeah.
1:05:35Elon MuskBut you could go. You could have a hundred levels of tunnel, no problems.
1:05:38Joe RoganJesus Christ. I don't want to be on 99. Not to be on 99th. Negative, 99 floors.
1:05:44Elon MuskWho. This is one of the fundamental things people don't appreciate about tunnels, is that it's not like roads. The fundamental issue with roads is that you have a 2D transport system and a 3D living and workspace environment.
1:05:58Elon MuskSo you got all these tall buildings or concentrated work environments, and then you want to go into this 2D transport system. Hugely inefficient, pretty low density because cars are spaced out pretty far.
1:06:15Elon MuskAnd so that obviously is not going to work. You're going to have traffic, guaranteed. But if you can go 3D on your transport system, then you can solve all traffic.
1:06:25Elon MuskYou can either go 3D up with a flying car or you can go 3D down with tunnels. You can have as many tunnel levels as you want. You can arbitrarily relieve any amount of traffic.
1:06:37Elon MuskYou can go further down with tunnels than you can go up with buildings. You're 10,000ft down if you want. I wouldn't recommend it, but.
1:06:46Joe RoganWhat was that movie with what's His Face? Bradley Coote. Not Bradley Cooper. Christian. No. What the fuck's his name? Who is Batman? Christian Bale. Where he. They fought dragons.
1:06:58Joe RoganHim and Matthew McConaughey went down deep into the earth. How high? How deep can you go? Yeah, it was.
1:07:06Elon MuskIt was Batman. Four dragons.
1:07:08Joe RoganNo, it wasn't Batman, but it's Christian Bale.
1:07:09Elon MuskReign of Fire.
1:07:10Joe RoganReign of Fire.
1:07:11Elon MuskOkay.
1:07:11Joe RoganEver saw that?
1:07:12Elon MuskNo.
1:07:13Joe RoganTerrible, terrible movie, but good.
1:07:16Elon MuskI wouldn't recommend drilling super far down.
1:07:18Joe RoganYeah, but you get hot, right?
1:07:20Elon MuskMolten. We're.
1:07:21Joe RoganYeah.
1:07:22Elon MuskEarth is a giant ball of lava with a thin crust on the top, which we think of as, like, the surface, this thin crust, and it's mostly just a big ball of lava.
1:07:36Elon MuskThat's Earth. But 10,000ft is not a big deal.
1:07:40Joe RoganHave you given any consideration whatsoever to the flat earth movement?
1:07:44Elon MuskHa ha. I think that's a troll situation.
1:07:48Joe RoganOh, it's not. No, it's not. You would like to think that because you're super genius, but I, as a normal, normal person, I know there's people way dumber than me, and they really, really believe.
1:08:04Joe RoganThey watch YouTube videos which go on uninterrupted and spew out a bunch of fucking fake facts very eloquently and articulately. And they really believe, these people. Really believe.
1:08:15Elon MuskI mean, if it works for them, sure, fine.
1:08:21Joe RoganIt's weird, though, right, that in this age where, you know, there's ludicrous mode in your car, goes 1.9 seconds, 0 to 62.2. 2.2. Which one's 1.9? The Roadster.
1:08:34Elon MuskThe next generation Roadster.
1:08:35Joe RoganOkay.
1:08:36Elon MuskStandard edition.
1:08:36Joe RoganYeah. I'm on top of this shit.
1:08:38Elon MuskThat's the. That's what that.
1:08:40Joe RoganStandard edition.
1:08:41Elon MuskYeah. So it's about the performance package.
1:08:43Joe RoganWhat? Performance package? Yes. What the fuck do you need?
1:08:46Elon MuskWe'll put rocket thrusters on it.
1:08:49Joe RoganFor real?
1:08:50Elon MuskYes.
1:08:50Joe RoganWhat are they going to burn?
1:08:51Elon MuskNothing. Ultra high pressure compressed air.
1:08:55Joe RoganWhoa.
1:08:56Elon MuskJust cold gas thrusters.
1:08:58Joe RoganDid you have to have air tanks or are they sucking the air out of. Okay, yeah.
1:09:02Elon MuskIt's an electric pump.
1:09:03Joe RoganWhoa.
1:09:04Elon MuskPump it up to, like 10,000 psi.
1:09:06Joe RoganAnd how fast are we talking? Zero to 60.
1:09:08Elon MuskHow fast you want to go?
1:09:09Joe RoganI want to go. We could make it just fly. I want to go back in time.
1:09:13Elon MuskMake it fly.
1:09:13Joe RoganYou make it fly?
1:09:14Elon MuskSure.
1:09:15Joe RoganDo you anticipate that as being. I mean, you were talking about the tunnels and then flying cars. Do you really think that's going to be real?
1:09:21Elon MuskToo noisy and there's too much airflow. So the fundamental issue with flying cars. I Mean, if you get like one of those like toy drones, think of how much, how loud those are and how much air that they, how much air they blow.
1:09:35Elon MuskNow imagine if that's like a thousand times heavier. This is not going to be make your neighbors happy. Your neighbors are not going to be happy. If you land a flying car in
1:09:44Joe Roganyour backyard, it'll be very helicopter like
1:09:48Elon Muskor on your roof. They're just really going to be like, what the hell? That was annoying. You can't even look. If you want a flying car, just put some wheels on a helicopter.
1:09:58Joe RoganIs there a way around that? Like, what if they figure out some sort of magnetic technology like all those Bob Lazar type characters were thinking. That was a part of the UFO technology they were doing at Area 51, remember?
1:10:11Joe RoganDidn't they have some, some thoughts about magnetics?
1:10:14Elon MuskNope.
1:10:15Joe RoganNo. Bullshit.
1:10:16Elon MuskYes.
1:10:16Joe RoganReally?
1:10:17Elon MuskYeah. There's a fundamental momentum exchange with the air. So you must, you must accelerate. There's, there's like, there's, there's a certain. You have a mass and you have gravity.
1:10:29Elon MuskGravitational acceleration and mass. Mass times your mass times gravity must equal the mass of airflow times the acceleration of that airflow to have a neutral force.
1:10:41Joe RoganSo it's impossible to go down and
1:10:44Elon Muskthen you won't move. But if MG is greater than ma, you will go down. And if MA is greater than mg, you will go up. That's how it works.
1:10:53Joe RoganThere's just no way around that.
1:10:54Elon MuskThere is definitely no way around it.
1:10:56Joe RoganThere's no way to create some sort of a magnetic something or another that allows you to.
1:11:02Elon MuskTechnically, yes, you, you could have a strong enough magnet, but that magnet would be so strong that you would create a lot of trouble.
1:11:16Joe RoganWould you suck cars up into your car? Just pick up?
1:11:22Elon MuskI mean, you'd have to repel off of either material on the ground or in a really nutty situation off of Earth's gravitational field and somehow make that incredibly light.
1:11:38Elon MuskBut that magnet would cause so much destruction. You'd be better off with a helicopter.
1:11:44Joe RoganSo if there was some sort of magnet road, like you have two magnets and they repel each other. If you had some sort of a magnet road that was below you and you could travel on that magnet road, that would work?
1:11:57Elon MuskHahaha. Yes. Yes, you can have a magnet road.
1:12:03Joe RoganA magnet road? Is that too ridiculous?
1:12:05Elon MuskNo, it's, it would work. You could do that. I would not recommend it.
1:12:09Joe RoganThere's a lot of things I don't recommend.
1:12:11Elon MuskI would super not recommend that. Not good. Not wise. I think no, no, that. No, definitely not. Definitely not. That would cause a lot of trouble.
1:12:23Joe RoganSo you've put some time and consideration into this other than, you know, instead of, like, my foolishly rendered thoughts. So you think that tunnels are the way to do it?
1:12:33Elon MuskOh, it'll work for sure.
1:12:34Joe RoganThat'll work.
1:12:35Elon MuskYes.
1:12:36Joe RoganAnd your. These. These tunnels that you're building right now, these are basically just like test versions of this ultimate idea that you have.
1:12:46Elon MuskYou know, it's just a hole in the ground, Right.
1:12:49Joe RoganWe played videos of it where you're going to drop that hole in the ground. There's a sled on it, and the sled goes very fast, like 100 miles an hour plus.
1:12:58Elon MuskYeah, you can go real fast, you know, as fast as you want. And then if you want to go long distances, you can just draw the air out of the tunnel, make sure it's real straight.
1:13:08Joe RoganDraw the air out of the tunnel. Yeah.
1:13:09Elon MuskSo vacuum tunnel. Because the. Then. And then, depending on how fast you want to go, you can use wheels or you could use air bearings, depending upon the ambient pressure in the tunnel.
1:13:21Elon MuskOr you could mag. Levit if you want to go super fast.
1:13:27Joe RoganSo magnet road.
1:13:29Elon MuskYes, but underground. Magnet roads.
1:13:31Joe RoganUnderground magnet.
1:13:32Elon MuskOtherwise you're gonna really create a lot of trouble with. Because there's metal things. Ah.
1:13:36Joe RoganSo magnet road is the way to go. Just underground.
1:13:39Elon MuskIf you want to go really fast underground, you would be in. You would be maglev in a vacuum tunnel.
1:13:46Joe RoganMag in a vacuum tunnel.
1:13:47Elon MuskMagnetic levitation in a vacuum tunnel.
1:13:51Joe RoganFun with rocket launchers.
1:13:52Elon MuskNo, I would not recommend putting any exhaust gas in the tunnel.
1:13:57Joe RoganOh, okay. I see what you're saying. Because then you gotta pump it out, right? You have to pump it out. And you probably have a limited amount of air in the first place.
1:14:03Joe RoganLike, how much can you breathe? Do you have to pump oxygen into these cubicles?
1:14:07Elon MuskNow you have a pressurized pod. It'd be like a little tiny underground spaceship. Basically like an airplane.
1:14:14Joe RoganBecause you have air in the airplane, it's not getting new air in it is.
1:14:17Elon MuskIt is, yes.
1:14:18Joe RoganThey have, like a little hole.
1:14:19Elon MuskYeah, they have a pump. Really? Yeah.
1:14:21Joe RoganIt gets it from the outside.
1:14:22Elon MuskYes.
1:14:23Joe RoganWow. I didn't know.
1:14:23Elon MuskAnd it's like. It's the errors. Airplanes have it. Have it easy because, like, essentially you can. They're pretty leaky, but. Jesus. Yeah, but as long as the. As long as the air pump is working at a decent speed, they have backup pumps.
1:14:39Elon MuskSo they have like, you know, three pumps or four pumps or something. And then there's like it exhausts through the outflow valve and through whatever seals are not sealing quite right.
1:14:54Elon MuskUsually the door doesn't seal quite right on a plane, so there's a bit of leakage around the door, but the pumps exceed the outflow rate and then that sets the pressure in the cabin.
1:15:08Joe RoganNow, have you ever looked at planes and gone, I could fix this, I just don't have the time.
1:15:13Elon MuskI have a design for a plane.
1:15:15Joe RoganYou do?
1:15:16Elon MuskYes.
1:15:17Joe RoganA better design.
1:15:19Elon MuskI mean, probably. I think it is, yeah.
1:15:22Joe RoganWho have you talked to about this?
1:15:25Elon MuskAnd I've talked to friends.
1:15:27Joe RoganFriends.
1:15:28Elon MuskFriends.
1:15:28Joe RoganAnd I'm your friend.
1:15:30Elon MuskGirlfriends.
1:15:30Joe RoganYou can tell me. What do you got? What's going on?
1:15:36Elon MuskWell, I mean, the exciting thing to do would be some sort of electric vertical takeoff and landing, supersonic jet of some kind.
1:15:43Joe RoganVertical takeoff and landing mean no need for a Runway. Just shoot up straight in the air. And then how would you do that? They do that on some military aircraft, correct?
1:15:56Elon MuskYes. The trick is that you have to transition to level flight and then you. The thing that you would use for vertical takeoff and landing is not suitable for high speed flight.
1:16:12Joe RoganSo you have two different systems. I've thought about this quite a lot.
1:16:15Elon MuskI've thought about this quite a lot. The interesting thing about an electric plane is that you want to go as high as possible, but you need a certain energy density in the battery pack because you have to overcome gravitational potential energy.
1:16:30Elon MuskOnce you've overcome gravitational potential energy and you're at a high altitude, the energy you use in crews is very low. And then you can recapture a large part of the gravitational potential energy on the way down.
1:16:44Elon MuskSo you really don't need any kind of reserve fuel, if you will, because you have the energy of height, gravitational potential energy. This is a lot of energy. So once you can get high, the way to think about a plane is it's a force balance.
1:17:02Elon MuskSo the force balance, so a plane that is not accelerating is a neutral force balance. You have the force of gravity, you have the lift force of the wings.
1:17:16Elon MuskThen you've got the force of the whatever thrusting device, the propeller or turbine or whatever it is, and you've got the resistance force of the air. Now the higher you go, the lower the air resistance is.
1:17:32Elon MuskAir density drops exponentially, but drag increases with the square. An exponential beats a square. The higher you go, the faster you will go for the same amount of energy.
1:17:43Elon MuskAnd at a certain altitude you can go supersonic with less energy per mile, quite a lot less energy per mile than an aircraft at 35,000ft, because it's just a force balance.
1:18:00Joe RoganI'm too stupid for this conversation.
1:18:04Elon MuskIt makes sense, though.
1:18:05Joe RoganNo, I'm sure it does. Now, when you think about this new idea of designing, when you have this idea about improving planes, are you going to bring this to somebody?
1:18:18Joe RoganAre you just Chuck?
1:18:20Elon MuskWell, I have a lot on my plate.
1:18:22Joe RoganRight, that's what I'm saying. I don't know how you do what you do now, but if you keep coming up with these. But it's got to be hard to pawn these off on someone else either.
1:18:32Joe RoganHey, go do a good job with this vertical takeoff and landing system that I want to implement to regular planes.
1:18:42Elon MuskElectric airplane isn't necessary right now. Electric cars are important. Solar energy is important. Stationary storage of energy is important. These things are much more important than creating electric supersonic vtol.
1:18:55Elon MuskAlso, the planes, naturally, you really want that gravitational energy density for an aircraft. And this is improving over time. So, you know, it's important that we accelerate the transition to sustainable energy.
1:19:10Elon MuskThat's why electric cars, it matters whether electric cars happen sooner or later. You know, we're really playing a crazy game here with the atmosphere and the oceans. We're taking vast amounts of carbon from deep underground and putting this, putting this in the atmosphere.
1:19:32Elon MuskThis is crazy. We should not do this. It's very dangerous. So we should accelerate the transition to sustainable energy. I mean, the bizarre thing is that obviously we're going to run out of oil in the long term.
1:19:54Elon MuskThere's only so much oil we can, we can mine and burn. It's total logical. We must have a sustainable energy transport and energy infrastructure in the long term. So we know that's the end point.
1:20:05Elon MuskWe know that. So why run this crazy experiment where we take trillions of tons of carbon from underground and put it in the atmosphere and oceans? This is an insane experiment.
1:20:16Elon MuskIt's the dumbest experiment in human history. Why are we doing this? It's crazy.
1:20:25Joe RoganDo you think this is a product of momentum? That we started off doing this when it was just a few engines, a few hundred million gallons of fuel over the whole world?
1:20:35Joe RoganNot that big of a deal. And then slowly but surely over a century, it got out of control and now it, it, it's not just our fuel, but it's also, I mean, fossil fuels are involved in so many different electronics, so many different items that people buy.
1:20:54Joe RoganIt's just this constant desire for fossil fuels, constant need for oil. Without consideration of the sustainability.
1:21:03Elon MuskThe things like oil, oil, coal, gas. It's the easy money. It's Easy money.
1:21:08Joe RoganSo have you heard about clean coal? The President's been tweeting about it. It's got to be real clean coal, all caps. Did you see he used all caps? Clean coal?
1:21:20Joe RoganWell,
1:21:23Elon Muskyou know, it's very difficult to put that CO2 back in the ground. It doesn't like being in solid form.
1:21:28Joe RoganIt takes a lot of energy like that, like some sort of a filter. Giant building sized filter sucks carbon out of the atmosphere.
1:21:37Elon MuskNo, no it doesn't. Not possible.
1:21:39Joe RoganNo, no, no.
1:21:40Elon MuskDefinitely not fucked. No, we're not fucked.
1:21:48Elon MuskI mean this is a quite a complex question, right? You know, we're really just. When the more carbon we take out of the ground and add to the atmosphere and a lot of it gets permeated into the oceans, the more dangerous it is.
1:22:04Elon MuskLike I don't think right now, I think we're okay right now. We can probably even add some more. But the momentum towards sustainable energy is too slow. Like there's a vast base of industry, vast transportation system.
1:22:23Elon MuskLike there's two and a half billion cars and trucks in the world. So. And the new car and truck production, if it was 100% electric, that's only about 100 million per year.
1:22:37Elon MuskSo it would take, if you could snap your fingers and instantly turn all cars and trucks electric, it would still take 25 years to change the transport base to electric.
1:22:52Elon MuskMakes sense because how long does a car truck last before it goes into the junkyard and gets crushed? About 20 to 25 years.
1:23:00Joe RoganIs there a way to accelerate that process like some sort of subsidies or some encouragement from the government financially?
1:23:08Elon MuskWell, the thing that is going on right now is that there is an inherent subsidy in any oil burning device, any power plant or car is fundamentally consuming the carbon capacity of the oceans and atmosphere.
1:23:27Elon MuskOr just say atmosphere for short. So like you can say like, okay, there's a certain probability of something bad happening past a certain carbon concentration in the atmosphere. And so there's some uncertain number where if we put too much carbon in the atmosphere, things overheat, oceans warm up, ice caps melt, ocean real estate becomes a lot less valuable, things underwater, but it's not clear what that number is.
1:24:03Elon MuskBut it's definitely. Scientists would all. It's really quite. The scientific consensus is overwhelming. Overwhelming. I mean, I don't know any serious scientists. Actually zero, literally zero, who don't think that we have quite a serious climate risk that we're facing.
1:24:28Elon MuskAnd so there's fundamentally a subsidy occurring with every fossil fuel burning thing, power plants, aircraft, car, frankly even rockets. I mean, rockets use a, you know, they burn fuel, but there's just, you know, with rockets there's just no other way to get to orbit, unfortunately.
1:24:53Elon MuskSo it's the only way. But with cars, there's definitely a better way with electric cars and to generate the energy, do so with photovoltaics because we've got a giant thermonuclear reactor in the sky called the sun.
1:25:08Elon MuskIt's great, sort of shows up every day, very reliable. So if you can generate energy from solar panels stored with batteries, you can have energy 24 hours a day.
1:25:21Elon MuskAnd then you can, you know, can send it to the poles or near to the north with high voltage lines. Also, the northern parts of the world tend to have a lot of hydropower as well.
1:25:38Elon MuskBut anyway, all fossil fuel powered things have an inherent subsidy, which is their consumption of the carbon capacity of the atmosphere and oceans. So people tend to think like, why should electric vehicles have a subsidy?
1:25:54Elon MuskBut they're not taking into account that all fossil fuel burning vehicles fundamentally are subsidized by the cost, the environmental cost to Earth. But nobody's paying for it. We are going to pay for it.
1:26:10Elon MuskObviously in the future we will pay for it. It's just not paid for now.
1:26:16Joe RoganAnd what is the bottleneck in regards to electric cars and trucks and things like that? Is it battery capacity?
1:26:25Elon MuskYeah, I've got to scale up production, got to make the car compelling, make it better than gasoline or diesel cars,
1:26:34Joe Roganmake it more efficient in terms of like the distance it could travel.
1:26:37Elon MuskYeah, you got to be able to go far enough, recharge fast.
1:26:40Joe RoganAnd your roadster, you're anticipating 600 miles, is that correct?
1:26:46Elon MuskYeah, yeah. 600 miles.
1:26:49Joe RoganIs that right now? Like, have you driven one 600 miles now?
1:26:52Elon MuskNo, we could totally make one right now. That would do 600 miles. But the thing is, it's too expensive. So like the car's.
1:26:58Joe RoganHow much more so.
1:27:00Elon MuskWell, you know, just have a 200 kilowatt hour battery pack and you can go 600 miles. Right.
1:27:05Joe RoganVersus what do you have now?
1:27:08Elon Musk330 mile range.
1:27:12Joe RoganWhat is that in terms of kilowatts?
1:27:15Elon MuskWell, that would be for Model S, 100 kilowatt hour pack. We'll do about 330 miles, maybe 335. But some people have hyper miled it to 500 miles.
1:27:26Joe RoganHyper miled it?
1:27:27Elon MuskWhat does that. Yeah, I just like go on 45
1:27:30Joe Roganmiles an hour or something.
1:27:30Elon MuskYeah, they're like 30 miles an hour on level ground with you pump the tires up really well and Go on a smooth surface and you can go for a long time, but you definitely comfortably do 300 miles.
1:27:44Joe RoganIs there any.
1:27:45Elon MuskThis is fine for most people. Usually 200 or 250 miles is fine. 300 miles is. You don't even think about it really.
1:27:53Joe RoganIs there any possibility that you could use solar power? That solar powered one day, especially in Los Angeles. I mean, as you said about that giant nuclear reactor a million times bigger than Earth, just floating in the sky.
1:28:03Joe RoganIs it possible that one day you'll be able to just power all these cars just on solar power? I mean, we don't ever have cloudy days. If we do, there's three of them.
1:28:15Elon MuskWell, the surface area of a car is. Without making the car like really blocky or having some like a G wagon. Yeah, like. And just like having a lot of surfs area where like maybe like solar panels fold out or something.
1:28:29Joe RoganLike your E class. That's what we needed.
1:28:32Elon MuskThe E Type.
1:28:33Joe RoganYeah, that. The E. Jaguar E Type with a giant long hood. That could be a giant solar panel.
1:28:40Elon MuskWell, at the beginning of Tesla, I did want to have this like unfolding solar panel thing. They'd press a button and it would just like unfold these solar panels and like charge.
1:28:48Elon MuskRecharge your car in the parking lot. Yeah, we could do that. But I think it's probably better to just put that on your roof.
1:28:56Joe RoganRight.
1:28:56Elon MuskAnd then it's going to just be facing the sun all the time. Because like otherwise your car could be in the shade. You know, it could be in the shade.
1:29:02Elon MuskIt could be in a garage or something like that. Yeah.
1:29:04Joe RoganDidn't a Fisker have that on the roof? The Fisker Karma new generation for. I believe it was only for the. The radio. Is that correct?
1:29:13Elon MuskYeah, I mean, I think it could like recharge like two miles a day or something.
1:29:17Joe RoganDid you laugh when they started blowing up? When they got hit with water, do you remember what happened?
1:29:22Elon MuskThey got what?
1:29:23Joe RoganYeah, when they had a dealership. Oh, yeah, the Fisker Karmas were parked.
1:29:28Elon MuskWas that like that with a flood in Jersey?
1:29:30Joe RoganYes, yes. When the hurricane came in, they got overwhelmed with water and they all started exploding. This fucking great video of it. Did you watch the video?
1:29:39Elon MuskI didn't watch the video, but I did see a picture of the ass lubed up.
1:29:45Joe RoganWatch that video. Laugh my ass off. They all blow up. They got wet and they blew up. That's not good.
1:29:51Elon MuskYeah, we made out battery waterproof, so that doesn't happen.
1:29:54Joe RoganSmart.
1:29:54Elon MuskActually move. Yeah. There was a guy in Kazakhstan that I think it was Kazakhstan that he. He just boated through a tunnel under. Underwater tunnel, like a flooded tunnel, and just turn the wheels to steer and press the accelerator and it just floated through the tunnel and he.
1:30:14Joe RoganWow.
1:30:15Elon MuskSteered around the other cars.
1:30:16Joe RoganYou're like, that's amazing.
1:30:17Elon MuskIt's on the Internet.
1:30:19Joe RoganWhat happens if your car gets a little sideways? Like, if you're driving in snow? Like, what if you're driving. If your autopilot is on and you're in, like, Denver and it snows out and your car gets a little sideways, does it correct itself?
1:30:34Elon MuskOh, yeah. It's got great traction control.
1:30:36Joe RoganBut does it know how to, like, correct? Do you know how, like.
1:30:39Elon MuskOh, yeah.
1:30:39Joe RoganYour ass end kicks out. You know how to counter steer?
1:30:42Elon MuskOh, yeah. No, it's really good.
1:30:43Joe RoganIt knows how to do it.
1:30:44Elon MuskYeah. Whoa. It's pretty crazy.
1:30:46Joe RoganThat's pretty crazy.
1:30:47Elon MuskYeah.
1:30:48Joe RoganSo, like, if you're going sideways, it knows how to correct itself.
1:30:53Elon MuskIt generally won't go sideways.
1:30:54Joe RoganIt won't?
1:30:55Elon MuskNo.
1:30:55Joe RoganWhy not?
1:30:56Elon MuskIt will correct itself before it goes sideways.
1:30:58Joe RoganEven in black eyes.
1:31:01Elon MuskYeah. This video is where you could see the car. The traction control system is very good. It makes you feel like Superman. It's great. You, like, feel like you can, like.
1:31:17Elon MuskIt will make you feel like this incredible driver.
1:31:19Joe RoganI believe it.
1:31:20Elon MuskYeah.
1:31:20Joe RoganNow, how do you program?
1:31:21Elon MuskWe do our testing on, like, an old ice lake in Sweden.
1:31:25Joe RoganOh, really? Yeah.
1:31:26Elon MuskAnd like, Norway and Canada and a few other places.
1:31:28Joe RoganPorsche does a lot of that, too.
1:31:30Elon MuskNew Zealand as well.
1:31:31Joe RoganThey do a lot of their. They do some of their driver training school on these frozen surfaces. So you're just. The car is going sideways whether you like it or not, and you have to learn how to slide into corners and how to adjust.
1:31:45Elon MuskWell, electric cars have really great traction control because the reaction time is so fast.
1:31:50Joe RoganRight.
1:31:50Elon MuskSo with a gasoline car, you've got a lot of latency. It takes a while for the engine to react. But for electric motors, incredibly precise. That's why you imagine if you had a printer or something, you wouldn't have a gasoline engine printer.
1:32:13Elon MuskThat would be pretty weird. Or a surgical device. It's going to be an electric motor on the surgical device on the printer. Gasoline engine is going to be just chugging away.
1:32:26Elon MuskIt's not going to have the reaction time. But to an electric motor, it's operating at the millisecond level, so it can turn on track, on and off traction within, like, inches of getting on the honest, like, let's say, drive a patch of ice.
1:32:41Elon MuskIt'll turn traction off and then turn it on a couple inches right after the ice. Like if there's a little patch of ice. Because in the frame of the electric motor, you're moving incredibly slowly.
1:32:56Elon MuskYou're like a snail. You're a snail. You're just moving so slowly because it can see at 1,000 frames a second. And so it's like, say, one Mississippi. It just thought about things a thousand times.
1:33:12Joe RoganSo it's realized that your wheels are not getting traction. It understands there's some slippery surface that you're driving on, and it makes adjustments in real time.
1:33:21Elon MuskYes. In milliseconds.
1:33:23Joe RoganThat would be so much safer than a regular car.
1:33:26Elon MuskYes.
1:33:27Joe RoganIt is just that alone for loved ones. You'd want them to be driving your car. Yes, I'm on board.
1:33:34Elon MuskFuck motors, dude.
1:33:35Joe RoganFuck regular motors.
1:33:37Elon MuskThe S X and three have the lowest probability of injury of any cars ever tested by the US Government.
1:33:46Joe RoganWow.
1:33:47Elon MuskThis is. Yeah, but it's pretty funny. It's pretty crazy. Like, we, you know, people still sue us. Like, they'll have, like, some accident at 60 miles an hour where they'd, like, twisted an ankle and they sue.
1:34:01Elon MuskLike, they'll be dead in another car. They still sue us.
1:34:04Joe RoganBut that's to be expected.
1:34:05Elon MuskIt is to be expected.
1:34:07Joe RoganDo you take that into account with, like, the same sort of fatalistic, you know, undertones, just sort of just go, ah, you gotta just let it go. This is what people do.
1:34:19Elon MuskTell you, I've got what it is, quite a lot of respect for the justice system. Judges are very smart and they see they like. I haven't so far. I found judges to be very good at justice because I like.
1:34:32Elon MuskLike what? Like. And juries are good too. Like, they're actually quite good. You know, people, you know, you read about, like, occasional errors in the justice system. Let me tell you, most of the time, they're very good.
1:34:47Elon MuskAnd like the, you know, the guy mentioned that who fell asleep in the car and he. He rode over a cyclist and, you know, and. And that was what encouraged me to get autopilot out as soon as possible.
1:35:01Elon MuskThat guy sued us.
1:35:02Joe RoganHe sued you for falling asleep?
1:35:05Elon MuskYes. I'm not kidding. He blamed it on the new car smell.
1:35:10Joe RoganWhat?
1:35:11Elon MuskYes.
1:35:11Joe RoganHe blamed him falling asleep on your new car smell. There's someone who's a lawyer.
1:35:17Elon MuskThis is a real thing that happened somewhere.
1:35:18Joe RoganThere's a lawyer that thought that through in front of his laptop before he wrote that up.
1:35:23Elon MuskYes. He got a lawyer and he sued us. And the judge was like, You. This is crazy. Stop bothering me.
1:35:30Joe RoganNo, thank God. Yes, thank God. Thank God there's a judge out there with a brain.
1:35:35Elon MuskTell you, judges are. Judges are very good.
1:35:38Joe RoganSome of them. What about that judge? Boys up the river in Pennsylvania who was selling those kids out. You know about that story? Judge was selling young boys to prisons.
1:35:49Joe RoganHe was like, literally. Yeah, literally under bribes for. He was.
1:35:54Elon MuskWas this an elected judge or sometimes you have a judge that's like actually a politician.
1:36:00Joe RoganNo, he's an elected judge. This is a very famous story. Who. He's in jail right now, I think, for the rest of his life. And he put away. He would take like a young boy would do something like steal something from a store and he would put him in detention for, you know, five years, something ridiculously egregious.
1:36:18Joe RoganAnd they investigated his history and they found out that he was literally being paid off. Was it by private prisons? Is that what the. The deal was? There was some sort of.
1:36:29Joe RoganBut anyway, this judge is two judges. Two judges. Kids for Cash scandals, what it's called 2008.
1:36:34Elon MuskYeah.
1:36:35Joe RoganCommon Pleas judges.
1:36:38Elon MuskSo I think they are elected.
1:36:39Joe RoganAnd who was paying them?
1:36:40Elon MuskOh,
1:36:43Joe Rogansomeone. It was proven to the point where they're in jail now that someone was paying them to put more asses in the seats in these private prisons. A million dollar payment to put them in the youth centers Builder.
1:36:57Joe RoganA million dollar payment.
1:36:59Elon MuskI do think it's this private prisons thing is creating a bad incentive, right? Yes, but I mean, that judge is in prison, thank God. Yes, but for people who think perhaps the justice system consists entirely of judges like that, I want to assure you this is not the case.
1:37:18Elon MuskThe vast majority of judges are very good.
1:37:20Joe RoganI agree.
1:37:21Elon MuskAnd they care about justice and they could have made a lot more money if they wanted to be a trial lawyer. And instead they cared about justice and they made less money because they care about justice and that's why they're judges.
1:37:31Joe RoganI feel that same way about police officers. I feel like there's so many interactions with so many different people with police officers that the very few that stand out, that are horrific, we tend to look at that like this is evidence that police are all corrupt.
1:37:45Joe RoganAnd I think that's crazy.
1:37:47Elon MuskNo, most police are very honest.
1:37:49Joe RoganYes.
1:37:52Elon MuskAnd like the military, military personnel that I know are very honorable, ethical people, and much more honorable and ethical than the average person. That's my impression.
1:38:02Joe RoganThat is my impression as well.
1:38:04Elon MuskAnd that's not to suggest that we be complacent and assume everyone's honest and ethical and Obviously, if somebody is given a trusted place in society, such as being a police officer or a judge, and they are corrupt, then we must be extra vigilant against such situations and take action.
1:38:22Elon MuskBut we should not think that this is somehow broadly descriptive of people in that profession.
1:38:26Joe RoganI couldn't agree more. I think there's also an issue with one of the things that happens with police officers, prosecutors, and anyone that's trying to convict someone or arrest someone is that it becomes a game.
1:38:39Joe RoganAnd in games, people want to win. And sometimes people cheat.
1:38:42Elon MuskYes, yes. I mean, if you're a prosecutor, you should not always want to win. There are times when you should, like, okay, I just should not want to win this case and then just pass on that case.
1:38:57Elon MuskSometimes people want to win too much. That is true. I think also it becomes tough. If you're like a district attorney, you tend to sort of see a lot of criminals and then your view of the world can get negatively.
1:39:18Elon MuskHave a negative view of the world because you're just interacting with a lot of criminals. But actually, most of society does not consist of criminals. And I actually had this conversation at dinner several years ago with district attorney, and I was like, man, it must sometimes seem pretty, pretty dark because, you know, man, there's some terrible human beings out there.
1:39:39Elon MuskAnd he was like, yep. And he was like dealing with some case which consisted of a couple of old ladies that would run people over somehow for insurance money.
1:39:51Elon MuskIt was rough. I was like, wow, that's pretty rough. It's like, hard to maintain faith in humanity if you're a district attorney. But, you know, it's only a few percent of society that are actually bad.
1:40:06Elon MuskAnd then if you go to the worst, say 0.1% of society or the worst, one in a thousand. One in a million. You know, like, how bad is the millionth worst person in the United States?
1:40:19Elon MuskPretty damn bad. Like damn evil. Like the, the millionth. Like the millionth. Well, one in a million of evil is so evil, people cannot even conceive of it. But there's 330 million people in the United States, so that's 330 people out there somewhere.
1:40:40Elon MuskBut by the same token, there's also 330 people who are incredible angels and unbelievably good human beings.
1:40:48Joe RoganYeah.
1:40:49Elon MuskOn the other side.
1:40:50Joe RoganBut because of our fear of danger, we tend to. Our thoughts tend to gravitate towards the worst case scenario.
1:40:57Elon MuskYes.
1:40:57Joe RoganAnd we want to frame that. And it's one of the real problems with prejudice. Whether it's prejudice towards different minorities or prejudice towards police officers or anything. It's like we want to look at the worst case scenario and say, this is an example of what this is all about.
1:41:13Joe RoganAnd you see that even with people, how they frame genders, some men frame women like that. They get ripped off by a few women and they decide all women are evil.
1:41:22Joe RoganSome women get fucked over by a few men, all men are shit. And this is very toxic. And it's also. It's a very unbalanced way of viewing the world.
1:41:33Joe RoganAnd it's very emotionally based on. And it's based on your own experience, your own anecdotal experience. And it can be very influential to the people around you. And it's just.
1:41:43Joe RoganIt's a dangerous way. It's a dangerous thought process and pattern to promote.
1:41:47Elon MuskIt is. It is a very dangerous thought pattern. I really think, you know, people should give other people the benefit of the doubt and assume that they're good until proven otherwise.
1:41:58Elon MuskAnd I think really, most people are actually pretty good people. Nobody's perfect.
1:42:04Joe RoganThey have to be. If you think the vast numbers of us that are just interacting with us, with each other constantly.
1:42:10Elon MuskYeah.
1:42:10Joe RoganWe have to be better than we think we are. Yeah. There's no other way.
1:42:14Elon MuskI mean, here are these weapons like. But how many times like, nobody's presumably tried to murder you and you're.
1:42:18Joe RoganNobody.
1:42:18Elon MuskYes. Nobody's like. But the swords right there.
1:42:21Joe RoganFake flamethrower here. It's not a flamethrower. Now we got a real problem. I'm gonna put it on that side, too. I'm gonna leave it for the guests.
1:42:27Elon MuskYeah.
1:42:28Joe RoganI'm like, look, man, if I say something that fucked up, it's right there.
1:42:31Elon MuskSo liven things up for sure. Guaranteed to make any party better.
1:42:36Joe RoganYeah. Well, that's. I mean, that's the armed civilization theory. Right. That an armed community is a safe and polite community.
1:42:48Elon MuskYeah.
1:42:49Joe RoganTexas, it's kind of true.
1:42:51Elon MuskYeah.
1:42:52Joe RoganI mean, people in Texas are super polite. Everybody's got a gun.
1:42:56Elon MuskYes. Don't make somebody angry. Don't know what's going to happen.
1:43:01Joe RoganYeah. It's not a good move.
1:43:03Elon MuskYeah.
1:43:03Joe RoganPiss people off when everybody can have a gun. Better off to just let that guy get in your lane.
1:43:08Elon MuskYeah. Yeah. You know, we got a big test site in central Texas near Waco.
1:43:15Joe RoganOh, beautiful.
1:43:16Elon MuskYeah. SpaceX in McGregor. It's about 15 minutes away from Waco.
1:43:20Joe RoganThat's close to where Ted Nugent lives. It is a Ted Nugent.
1:43:24Elon MuskOkay, cool. Yeah. There, you know, we have luck. Lots of Fire and loud explosions and things. And people that, they're cool with it.
1:43:32Joe RoganThey don't give a fuck out there.
1:43:33Elon MuskThey're very supportive.
1:43:34Joe RoganYeah, you can buy fireworks where, you know, your kids go to school.
1:43:38Elon MuskYeah, it's, you know, it's dangerous.
1:43:41Joe RoganYeah, but it's free. There's something about this that's very enticing because of that. It is dangerous. But it's also free, right? Yeah.
1:43:50Elon MuskYeah. I kind of like Texas, actually.
1:43:53Joe RoganWell, I prefer it over places that are more restrictive but more liberal. Because you could always be liberal. Like just because things are free and just because you have a certain amount of, you know, right wing type characters, it doesn't mean you have to be that way, you know?
1:44:09Joe RoganAnd honestly, there's a lot of those people that are pretty fucking open minded and let you do whatever you want to do as long as you don't bother them.
1:44:17Elon MuskYeah, exactly.
1:44:18Joe RoganThat's my hope right now. With the way we're able to communicate with each other today and how radically different it is than generations past, is that we all just.
1:44:28Joe RoganThe dust settles and we all realize like, like what you were saying, that most people are good.
1:44:34Elon MuskMost people are good.
1:44:35Joe RoganThe vast majority, yes.
1:44:36Elon MuskI think you should give people the benefit of the doubt. For sure.
1:44:38Joe RoganI think you're right.
1:44:39Elon MuskYeah.
1:44:40Joe RoganYou know what could help that? Mushrooms.
1:44:44Elon MuskDon't you think they're delicious?
1:44:47Joe RoganYeah, right?
1:44:48Elon MuskYeah.
1:44:48Joe RoganThey're good for you too.
1:44:50Elon MuskYeah.
1:44:50Joe RoganAll of them, all kinds of them. What do you see in terms of like, when you think about the future of your companies, what do you see as like bottlenecks?
1:45:02Joe RoganWhat's more.
1:45:03Elon MuskSure. Thank you.
1:45:06Joe RoganWhat do you see in terms of like bottlenecks of things that are, that are holding back innovation? Is it regulatory commissions and people that don't understand the technology that are influencing policy?
1:45:19Joe RoganLike what could potentially be holding you guys back right now? Is there anything that you would change?
1:45:28Elon MuskYeah, that's a good question.
1:45:35Elon MuskYou know, I wish politicians were better at science. That would help a lot.
1:45:40Joe RoganThat's a problem.
1:45:42Elon MuskYes.
1:45:42Joe RoganThere's no incentive for them to be good at science.
1:45:45Elon MuskThere isn't. Actually. They're pretty good at science in China, I have to say. Yeah. The mayor of Beijing is, I believe an environmental engineering degree and the deputy mayor is a physics degree.
1:45:58Elon MuskI met them and mayor says Shanghai is really smart.
1:46:04Joe RoganYou're up on technology. What do you think about this government policy of stopping use of Huawei phones? And there's something about the worry about spying. I mean, from what I understand from real tech People, they think it's horseshit.
1:46:23Joe RoganOh, like phones?
1:46:24Elon MuskI don't know. I don't know.
1:46:26Joe RoganLike the government say, don't buy Huawei phones. Does that do? Are you up on that at all? No. Should we just abandon this idea?
1:46:35Elon MuskWell, I think, like, I guess if you're, if you're, if you have like top secret stuff, then you want to be pretty careful about what hardware you use. But, you know, like, most people do not have top secret stuff, right?
1:46:48Elon MuskAnd like, nobody really cares what porn you watch, you know? Or it's like nobody actually cares, you know?
1:46:56Joe RoganSo if they do, that's kind of on them.
1:47:00Elon MuskLike, national spy agencies do not care. Do not give a rat's ass what porn you watch. They do not care. So, like, what secrets does a national spy agency have to learn from the average citizen?
1:47:15Elon MuskNothing.
1:47:15Joe RoganWell, that's the argument against the narrative and the argument by a lot of these tech people is that the real concern is that these companies like Huawei are innovating at a radical pace and they're trying to stop them from integrating into our culture and letting this.
1:47:31Joe RoganRight now, they're the number two cell phone manufacturer in the world. Samsung's number one. Huawei is number two. Apple is now number three. They surpassed Apple as number two.
1:47:41Joe RoganAnd the idea is that this is all taking place without them having any foothold whatsoever. In America, there are no, there's no carriers that have their phones. You have to buy their phones unlocked through some sort of a third party and then put.
1:47:55Elon MuskOkay.
1:47:56Joe RoganAnd the worry is, you know, that these are somehow or another controlled by the Chinese government. The communist Chinese government is going to distribute these phones. And I don't know if it's.
1:48:07Joe RoganThe worry is economic influence, that they'll have too much power. I don't know what it is. Are you paying attention to any of this?
1:48:15Elon MuskNot really, no. I don't think we should worry too much about Huawei phones. Maybe our national security agencies shouldn't have Huawei phones. Maybe that's a question mark. But I think for the average citizen, it doesn't matter.
1:48:33Elon MuskI'm pretty sure the Chinese government does not care about the goings on of the average American citizen.
1:48:42Joe RoganIs there a time where you think that there will be no security, where it will be impossible to hold back information? That whatever bottleneck we'll let go, we're going to give in?
1:48:55Joe RoganThat whatever bottleneck between privacy and ultimate innovation will have to be bridged in order for us to achieve the next level of technological proficiency that we're Just going to abandon it and there'll be no security, no privacy.
1:49:09Elon MuskDo people want privacy? Because they seem to put everything on the Internet.
1:49:13Joe RoganWell right now they're confused. But when you're talking about your neuralink and this, this idea that one day we are going to be able to share information. We're going to be some sort of a thing that symbiotically create.
1:49:25Joe RoganSymbiotically connected.
1:49:26Elon MuskI think we really need to worry about security in that situation.
1:49:29Joe RoganAnd when.
1:49:29Elon MuskSure. That's like a security we Paramount.
1:49:32Joe RoganSure.
1:49:32Elon MuskYeah.
1:49:33Joe RoganBut also what we will be is we'll be so much different Lark our concerns about money, about status, about. Well, all these things will seemingly go by the wayside.
1:49:43Joe RoganIf we really become enlightened, if we really become artificially enlightened by some sort of an AI interface where we have this symbiotic relationship with some new Internet type connection to information.
1:50:01Joe RoganWhat, you know what happens then? What. What is important? What is not important? Is privacy important when we're all gods?
1:50:10Elon MuskHaha. I mean I think the things that we think are important to keep private right now.
1:50:18Joe RoganRight.
1:50:18Elon MuskWe probably will not think are important.
1:50:20Joe RoganRight. Information. Right. What do you, what do you hide? Emotions? What are we hiding?
1:50:29Elon MuskI mean I think like. I don't know, maybe it's like embarrassing stuff.
1:50:32Joe RoganRight, Embarrassing stuff.
1:50:35Elon MuskBut there's actually like. I think people, there's like not that much that's kept private that people. That is actually relevant.
1:50:43Joe RoganRight.
1:50:44Elon MuskThat people would. Other people actually care about. You may think other people care about it, but they don't really care about it. And certainly governments don't.
1:50:51Joe RoganWell, some people care about it. But then it gets weird when you, when it gets exposed. Like Jennifer Lawrence, when all those naked pictures of her got exposed. Like I think in some ways people liked her more.
1:51:00Joe RoganThey realized like she's just a person that just a girl who likes sex and is just alive and has a boyfriend and sends them messages and now you get to look into it and you probably shouldn't have, but somebody let it go and they put it online and.
1:51:13Joe RoganAll right.
1:51:16Elon MuskShe seems to be doing okay.
1:51:17Joe RoganShe's a person. She's just you and me and it's the same thing. She's just in some weird place where she's on a 35 foot tall screen with music playing every time she talks.
1:51:30Elon MuskYeah, I mean I'm sure she's like not happy about it, but she's clearly doing fine.
1:51:38Joe RoganBut once this interface is fully realized where we really do become something far more powerful in terms of Our cognitive ability, our ability to understand irrational thoughts and mitigate them.
1:51:53Joe RoganAnd that we're all connected in some sort of an insane way. Our thoughts on wealth, our thoughts on social status. Like how many of those just evaporate? And our need for privacy, maybe our need for privacy will be the ultimate bottleneck that we'll have to.
1:52:09Joe RoganThat we'll have to surpass.
1:52:13Elon MuskI think the things that we think are important now will probably not be important in the future. But there will be things that are important. What will be more important things?
1:52:25Elon MuskThere might be some war of ideas potentially. I don't think Darwin's going away.
1:52:32Joe RoganRight.
1:52:33Elon MuskDarwin's gonna be there. Darwin will be there forever.
1:52:39Joe RoganForever. Yeah.
1:52:41Elon MuskIt would just be a different arena. Different arena.
1:52:45Joe RoganA digital arena.
1:52:47Elon MuskDifferent arena. Darwin's not going away.
1:52:53Joe RoganWhat keeps you up at night?
1:52:57Elon MuskWell, it's quite hard to run companies.
1:52:59Joe RoganYeah.
1:53:00Elon MuskEspecially car companies. I have to say. It's quite challenging.
1:53:03Joe RoganThe car business is the hardest one of all the things you do.
1:53:07Elon MuskYes.
1:53:07Joe RoganBecause it's a consumer oriented business. As opposed to like SpaceX. And not that SpaceX is.
1:53:13Elon MuskSpaceX is no walk in the park, but a car company. It's very difficult to keep a car company alive. It's very difficult. You know there's only two car companies in the history of American car companies that haven't gone bankrupt.
1:53:29Elon MuskAnd that's Ford and Tesla. That's it. Yeah.
1:53:33Joe RoganFord rode out that crazy storm, huh? They're the only ones by the skin of their teeth. Shout out to the Mustang. Yeah, yeah. By the skin of their teeth.
1:53:42Joe RoganThat is interesting. Right?
1:53:43Elon MuskSame with Tesla. We barely survived.
1:53:45Joe RoganHow close did you get to folding?
1:53:49Elon MuskVery close. We 2008 is not a good time to be a car company. Especially a startup car company and especially an electric car company. That was like stupidity squared.
1:54:00Joe RoganAnd this is when you had those cool roadsters with the T top. With a Targa top.
1:54:06Elon MuskYeah. We had like use a highly modified lease chassis. The body was all completely different by the way. That was a super dumb strategy that we actually did.
1:54:16Joe RoganWhy was it dumb?
1:54:18Elon MuskIt was based on two false premises. One false premise was that we'd be able to cheaply convert the Lotus Elise and use that as a car platform. And that we would be able to use technology from this little company called AC propulsion for the electric drivetrain and the battery problem is the AC propulsion technology did not work in production and we ended up using none of it in the long term.
1:54:49Elon MuskNone of it. We had to redesign everything. And then once you add a battery pack an electric motor to the car. It got heavier. It got 30% heavier. Invalidated the entire structure, all the crash structure, everything had to be redone.
1:55:04Elon MuskNothing like. I think it had. Less than 7% of the parts were common with any other device, including cars or Anything less than 7%? Yes.
1:55:15Joe RoganEverything, including tires and wheels, bolts, brakes.
1:55:20Elon MuskYeah.
1:55:20Joe RoganEven steering wheel.
1:55:22Elon MuskThe steering wheel was. I think the steering wheel was almost the same. Yes. The windscreen different? No, I think the windscreen is the same. Yes. I think we were able to keep
1:55:34Joe Roganthe windscreen Less than 7%. So that's basically every body panel was different.
1:55:38Elon MuskThe entire structure was different. We couldn't use the H. Like the H vac system. The air conditioner was a belt driven air conditioner. So now we needed something that was electrically driven, which needed a new AC
1:55:53Joe Rogancompressor and all that takes away from the battery life as well, Right?
1:55:57Elon MuskYeah. We needed a small, highly efficient air conditioning system that fit in a tiny car and was electrically powered, not belt driven. It was very difficult.
1:56:08Joe RoganHow much did those weigh, the. Those cars, the roadster?
1:56:12Elon MuskI think it was about £2,700. It's still very low, depending on which version. 2650-2750, something like that.
1:56:19Joe RoganAnd what was the weight distribution?
1:56:23Elon MuskIt was about 50. Well, there were different versions of the car. So it was about 55 on the rear. It was rear bias.
1:56:33Joe RoganRight. But not bad, like, considering, like a 911, which is like one of the most popular sports cars of all time. Heavy rear end bias.
1:56:41Elon MuskWell, I mean, yeah, the 911, I think the joke is like, they managed to do it despite Newton not being on their side.
1:56:50Joe RoganYeah.
1:56:51Elon MuskIf you're fighting Newton, it's very difficult. Well, it's like you've got this. The moments of inertia on a 911 don't make any sense.
1:56:59Joe RoganThey do once you understand them. Once you understand you don't want to
1:57:02Elon Muskhang the engine off the ass. This is not a wise move.
1:57:05Joe RoganYou don't want to let up on the gas when you're in a corner.
1:57:09Elon MuskThe problem with a. With something that's where the engine is mounted over the rear axle or off the rear axle towards the rear is that your polar moment of inertia is fundamentally screwed.
1:57:19Elon MuskYou cannot solve this. It's unsolvable. You're screwed. Polar moment inertia. You're screwed.
1:57:26Joe RoganRight.
1:57:27Elon MuskLike essentially, if you spun the car like a top, that's your polar moment of inertia. You're just. I promised I wouldn't swear on this show by the way, really?
1:57:38Joe RoganTo who?
1:57:39Elon MuskSo it's my friend.
1:57:40Joe RoganTell that friend to go himself. Who told you not to swear?
1:57:43Elon MuskA friend.
1:57:44Joe RoganIt's not a good friend.
1:57:45Elon MuskYes.
1:57:47Joe RoganRealize you're Elon Musk. You can do whatever you want, man. If you ever get confused, call me.
1:57:53Elon MuskI'll swear in private. Swear up a storm.
1:57:56Joe RoganJust say frickin it's fun. Way those like old house moms, wives and shit that have children. Oh, this freaking thing.
1:58:08Elon MuskYeah. But anyway, like the Porsche, it's kind of incredible how well Porsche handles, given that. It's the physics. The moments of inertia are so messed up. To actually still make it work well.
1:58:20Elon MuskIs incredible.
1:58:21Joe RoganWell, if you know how to turn into the corner once you get used to the feeling of it, there's actual benefits to it, you know?
1:58:27Elon MuskThere are some benefits I enjoy. The car I had before Tesla was a 911.
1:58:33Joe RoganOh, okay. That was 997 or 6. Yeah, 997.
1:58:37Elon MuskYeah.
1:58:38Joe RoganYeah. Great car, man.
1:58:41Elon MuskYeah. I mean, particularly on the Porsche Turbo when they had the variable vanes.
1:58:44Joe RoganThe turbo.
1:58:45Elon MuskAnd you didn't have the turbo lag. That was great.
1:58:47Joe RoganYeah, that was really great.
1:58:48Elon MuskThe turbo lag was like, you know, you floor it, like, phone home, call your mom.
1:58:55Joe RoganThe older one.
1:58:56Elon MuskAbout an hour later, the car accelerates.
1:58:58Joe RoganAnd super dangerous too, because then the real world start spinning.
1:59:02Elon MuskYeah.
1:59:02Joe RoganYeah. There's something fun about it though. Like feeling that rear weight kicking around, you know, and again, efficient.
1:59:09Elon MuskHad a good feel to it. Yeah, Yeah, I agree.
1:59:11Joe RoganBut that's, that's what I was talking about earlier, about that little car that I have, the 93 911. It's just, there's. It's not fast, it's not. It's not the best handling car, but it's more satisfying than any other car I have because it's so mechanical.
1:59:26Joe RoganIt's like everything about it like crackles and bumps and it gives you all this feedback and I take it to the Comedy Store because when I get there, I feel like my brain is just popping and it's on fire.
1:59:37Joe RoganIt's like a strategy for me now that I really stopped driving other cars there. I drive that car there just for the brain juice, just for the inner, the interaction.
1:59:50Elon MuskI mean, you should try model SP100D.
1:59:52Joe RoganI'll try.
1:59:53Elon MuskBlow your mind your skull. Okay, yeah.
1:59:56Joe RoganTell me what to order. I'll order it.
1:59:58Elon MuskModel SP100D.
2:00:00Joe RoganOkay, Jamie, that's the best car that I drive. Okay, okay, I'll get with the car. You drive, okay?
2:00:05Elon MuskIt will blow your mind out of your skull.
2:00:07Joe RoganI believe you. How can I drive 300 miles? That's good for LA regular days.
2:00:14Elon MuskYou'll never notice the battery.
2:00:16Joe RoganNever?
2:00:16Elon MuskNever.
2:00:17Joe RoganHow hard is it to get like one of them crazy plugs installed in your house? That difficult?
2:00:22Elon MuskNo, it's super easy. It's like, it's like a dryer plug. It's like a dryer outlet.
2:00:27Joe RoganDidn't you come up with some crazy tiles for your roof that are solar paneled?
2:00:31Elon MuskYeah, yeah, we're have it on my roof right now actually. I'm just trying it out. It's like it. The thing is it takes a while to like test roof stuff because roofs have to last a long time.
2:00:39Elon MuskSo like, you want your roof to last, like, could it 30 years over
2:00:43Joe Rogana regular roof now?
2:00:45Elon MuskSo there's two versions. There's like the solar panels you put on a roof. So like, depends on whether your roof's new or old. So if your roof's new, you don't want to replace the roof.
2:00:52Elon MuskYou want to put like solar panels on the roof.
2:00:54Joe RoganRight.
2:00:55Elon MuskSo that's like retrofit, you know, and then we're trying to make the retrofit panels look real nice and then. But then the new product we're coming out with is if you, if you have a roof that's either you're building a house or you're going to replace your roof anyway, then you make the site.
2:01:08Elon MuskThe tiles have solar cells embedded in the tiles. And then it's quite a tricky thing because you want to not see the solar cell behind the glass tile. So you have to really work with the glass and the various coatings and layers so that you don't see the solar cell behind the glass.
2:01:33Elon MuskOtherwise it doesn't look right.
2:01:34Joe RoganRight.
2:01:35Elon MuskSo it's really tricky.
2:01:36Joe RoganThere it is. Jamie put it up there. Yeah, and that looks good. Is there a.
2:01:40Elon MuskSee, like if you look closely you can see, if you zoom in, you can see the. So you can see the cell, but if you zoom out, you don't see the cell.
2:01:48Joe RoganRight. Well, it looks cool though.
2:01:51Elon MuskThat's hard. That's really hard because you have to have sunlight go through.
2:01:55Joe RoganRight.
2:01:55Elon MuskBut when it gets reflected back out, it hides the fact that there's a cell there.
2:02:02Joe RoganNow, are those available to the consumer right now?
2:02:06Elon MuskWell, we have, I think those on
2:02:07Joe Roganthat roof right there.
2:02:08Elon MuskYes.
2:02:09Joe RoganThat's amazing. Oh, that looks good.
2:02:13Elon MuskYeah. Ooh, I like that one. Swart.
2:02:16Joe RoganOh. So you get that kind of fake Spanish looking thing. I like.
2:02:20Elon MuskThat's French slate.
2:02:21Joe RoganThat's white people in Connecticut smoking pipes. Look at that one. Yeah, that's badass, dude.
2:02:28Elon MuskSo actually work.
2:02:30Joe RoganI believe you. So the. The solar panels that are on that house that we just looked at, is that sufficient to power the entire home?
2:02:39Elon MuskIt depends on your energy, on how expensive. Yeah, yeah. So generally, yes, I would say it's probably for most, it's going to vary, but anywhere from more than you need to maybe half, like, call it half, to 1.5 of the energy that you need, depending on how much roof you have relative to living space and how
2:03:05Joe Roganridiculous you are with tv.
2:03:07Elon MuskTV is no problem.
2:03:08Joe RoganAir conditioning.
2:03:09Elon MuskAir conditioning. Air conditioning is the problem. If you have an efficient air conditioner and you don't. And depending on how, like, are you air conditioning rooms when they don't need to be air conditioned, which is very common because it's a pain in the neck.
2:03:24Elon MuskYou know, it's like programming a VCR. It's like, now it's just the blinking 12. So people are just like, the hell with that. I'm just going to make it this temperature all day long.
2:03:33Joe RoganRight. They don't have a smart home where if you're in the room, then it stays cool. Right?
2:03:37Elon MuskYeah. It should predict when you're going to be home and then cool the room. The rooms that you're likely to use with a little bit of intelligence. We're not talking about like genius home here.
2:03:49Elon MuskWe're just talking like elementary, basic stuff, you know, like if you could hook that into the car, like it knows you're coming home. Like, there's no point in cooling the home, keeping the home really cool when you're not there.
2:04:03Elon MuskBut it can tell that you're coming home, it's going to cool it to the right temperature. Right.
2:04:06Joe RoganDo you have an app that works with your solar panels or anything like that?
2:04:12Elon MuskYeah, yeah, we do. But we need to hook it into the air conditioning to really make the air conditioning work.
2:04:17Joe RoganHave you thought about creating an air conditioning system? I know you have. Trick question.
2:04:27Elon MuskCannot answer questions about future potential.
2:04:29Joe RoganOkay, let's just let it go. We'll move on to the next thing.
2:04:32Elon MuskThat would be an interesting idea.
2:04:34Joe RoganYeah, I would say radiant heating, all that. Good ideas. Now when you. When you think about the efficiency of these homes and you think about implementing solar power and battery power and is there anything else that people are missing?
2:04:51Joe RoganIs there any other. Like, I just saw a smartwatch that is powered by the heat of the human body. It's some New technology.
2:05:00Elon MuskIt's able to fully power that way.
2:05:02Joe RoganI don't know if it's fully or if it's like this watch right here. This is a Casio, it's called a Pro Tec. And it's like an outdoors watch. And it's solar powered.
2:05:11Elon MuskOkay.
2:05:12Joe RoganAnd so it has the ability to operate for a certain amount of time on solar.
2:05:16Elon MuskYeah.
2:05:16Joe RoganSo if you have it exposed, it could function for a certain amount of time on solar. Yeah.
2:05:21Elon MuskWell, you know, like there's the self winding watches where you know, it's just got a weight in the watch and as you move your wrist, the weight moves from one side to the other and it winds the watch up.
2:05:31Elon MuskThat's a pretty cool thing.
2:05:32Joe RoganYeah, yeah. Well, it's amazing that like Rolex is that it's all done mechanically. There's no batteries in there, there's no nothing.
2:05:38Elon MuskYeah, you could do the same thing. Create a little charger that's based on wrist movement. It really depends on how much energy your watch uses.
2:05:45Joe RoganYou know what's fucked up about that though? We accept a certain amount of like fuckery with those watches. Like, I brought my watch, I have a Rolex that my friend Lorenzo gave me and I brought it to the watch store and I said, this thing's always fast.
2:06:01Joe RoganI said it's always like after a couple months, it's like five minutes fast. And they go, yep. They go, yeah, it's just what it does. And I go, hold on.
2:06:10Joe RoganI go, so you're telling me that it just is always going to be fast? They like, yeah, it's just like every few months you got to like reset.
2:06:17Elon MuskIt seems like they should recalibrate that thing.
2:06:19Joe RoganThey can't. They tried. They say every few months, whether it's four months or five months or six months, it's going to be a couple minutes fast.
2:06:26Elon MuskOkay. It seems like they should really recalibrate that because if it's always fast, you can just, you know, delete those minutes.
2:06:33Joe RoganYou need to fucking kick down the door at Rolex and go, you bitches are lazy.
2:06:39Elon MuskIt's kind of amazing that you can keep time mechanically on a wristwatch with these tiny little gears.
2:06:43Joe RoganIt's amazing. Yeah, I mean the whole luxury watch market is fascinating. I'm not that involved in terms like I don't buy them, I bought them as gifts, so I don't buy them for myself.
2:06:56Joe RoganBut when I look at them online with this one million dollar watches out there now that are like, they have like little rotating moons and stars and they, they live like, look at this thing.
2:07:06Joe RoganHow much is that one? Jamie? These are fucking preposterous.
2:07:10Elon MuskI like gears.
2:07:11Joe RoganI love them.
2:07:12Elon MuskYeah, I think they're beautiful.
2:07:14Joe RoganBut there's some of these people that are just taking it right in the ass. They're buying these watches for like $750,000, Mike. Yo, that's a Timex, son. Nobody knows.
2:07:23Joe RoganIt's not any better than some Casio that you could just buy online. Like, look at that, though. Well, here's the thing. If you're a person that doesn't just want to know the time, you want craftsmanship, you want some artisan's touch.
2:07:39Joe RoganYou want innovation in terms of like a person figuring out how gears and cogs all line up perfectly to every time it turns over. It's basically a second. I mean, that's just.
2:07:54Joe RoganThere's this art to that.
2:07:55Elon MuskYeah, I agree.
2:07:56Joe RoganYeah. It's not just telling time. I like this watch a lot, but if it got hit by a rock, I wouldn't be sad. Yeah, it's just a watch. It's a.
2:08:03Joe RoganIt's a mass produced thing that runs on some quartz battery. But those things, that's. There's art to that.
2:08:10Elon MuskNo, I agree. It's beautiful.
2:08:12Joe RoganYeah.
2:08:13Elon MuskYeah. Love it.
2:08:14Joe RoganYeah. There's something. Something amazing about it. It's because it represents the human creativity. It's not just. It's not just electronic innovation. There's something. There's a person's work in that.
2:08:29Joe RoganYes, but you don't have a watch on.
2:08:32Elon MuskNo.
2:08:33Joe RoganEver.
2:08:33Elon MuskI used to have a watch.
2:08:34Joe RoganWhat happened, Mike?
2:08:37Elon MuskMy phone tells the time.
2:08:39Joe RoganGood point. What if you lose your phone? Hold on, let me guess. You are a no case guy.
2:08:47Elon MuskThat's correct. Living on the edge. Living on the edge without a case.
2:08:52Joe RoganNeil DeGrasse Tyson. Neil DeGrasse Tyson was in here last week. I marveled at his ability to get through life without a case.
2:08:59Elon MuskThat's right.
2:09:00Joe RoganYou know, he takes his phone and he flips it in between his fingers like. Like a soldier would do with his rifle. He just rolls that shit in between his fingers.
2:09:10Elon MuskOkay.
2:09:10Joe RoganMarvelous.
2:09:11Elon MuskWow.
2:09:12Joe RoganHe says that's the reason why they do it. He said, would you look at someone who has a rifle? Why would they do that? Why would they flip it around like that?
2:09:20Elon MuskRight.
2:09:21Joe RoganSo that when it goes to drop, they have it in their hand, they catch it quickly. So that's what he does with his phone. He's just flipping his phone around all the time.
2:09:30Joe RoganI got that in Mexico. I was hoping it holds Joints.
2:09:34Elon MuskDoes it do anything? It seems to open. It's just a whole good storage store things in there.
2:09:38Joe RoganBut, like, try to put a joint in there, close it. You put like one. One blunt one. But it seems pretentious, you know, that's the idea behind it. I bought it when I was in Mexico because I figured it would be a good size to hold joints.
2:09:58Joe RoganOr fraud.
2:10:03Elon MuskSo is that a joint or is it a cigar?
2:10:08Joe RoganNo.
2:10:08Elon MuskOkay.
2:10:09Joe RoganIt's marijuana inside of tobacco.
2:10:12Elon MuskOkay, so it's like posh pot tobacco.
2:10:15Joe RoganNever had that.
2:10:15Elon MuskYeah, I think I tried one once.
2:10:17Joe RoganCome on, man. You probably can't because stockholders. Right.
2:10:23Elon MuskI mean, it's legal, right?
2:10:24Joe RoganIt's totally legal.
2:10:25Elon MuskOkay.
2:10:26Joe RoganHow does that work? Do people get upset at you if you do certain things? Tobacco and marijuana in there. That's all it is. The combination of tobacco and marijuana is wonderful.
2:10:42Joe RoganFirst turned onto it by Charlie Murphy and then reignited by Dave Chappelle. There you go.
2:10:47Elon MuskPlus whiskey. Exactly.
2:10:49Joe RoganPerfect balances it out.
2:10:53Elon MuskAlcohol is a drug. It's been grandfathered in.
2:10:56Joe RoganWell, it's not just a drug. It's a drug that gets a bad rap. Because if you just have a little.
2:11:00Elon MuskIt's great, fine. Yeah.
2:11:03Joe RoganA little sip here and there and your inhibitions are relaxed and it shows your true self and hopefully you're more joyous and friendly and happy and. And everything's good.
2:11:13Joe RoganThe real worry is the people that can't handle it. Like, the real worry about people who can't handle cars that can go 0 to 60 in 1.9 seconds or anything.
2:11:23Joe RoganHave you ever considered something that, like, imagine if one day everyone has a car that's on the same, at least technological standard as one of your cars, and everyone agrees that the smart thing to do is not just to have bumpers, but to perhaps have some sort of a magnetic repellent device.
2:11:44Joe RoganSomething. Some electromagnetic field around the cars that, as cars come close to each other, they automatically radically decelerate because of magnets or something?
2:11:56Elon MuskWell, I mean, our cars break automatically. Break, yeah, yeah.
2:11:59Joe RoganWhen they see things.
2:12:00Elon MuskYes.
2:12:01Joe RoganBut like a physical barrier, like.
2:12:06Elon MuskWell, the wheels work pretty well. The wheels do, yeah. Yeah, pretty well. Decelerated at, you know, 1.1 to 1.2 GS, that kind of thing.
2:12:15Joe RoganIs there a concern that one day all your cars will be on the road and then there'll still be regular people with regular cars 20, 30 years from now that'll get in the mix and be the main problem?
2:12:31Elon MuskYeah, I think it'd be sort of like it was a time of transition where there were horses and gasoline cars on the road at the same time. Must have been pretty weird.
2:12:39Joe RoganOh, that would be the weirdest.
2:12:41Elon MuskYeah. I mean, horses were tricky. You know, back in Manhattan had like 300,000 horses. You figure like a horse lives 15 years, got 20,000 horses dropping dead every day or every year.
2:12:55Elon MuskI should say every year is 20,000 horses. If there's 300,000 horses in 15 year lifespan.
2:13:01Joe RoganBack in the gangs in New York days, that movie. Yeah, yeah.
2:13:07Elon MuskIt's a lot of dead horses. And you need a horse to move the horse. Right. And they'll probably get pretty, pretty freaked out if they have to move a dead horse.
2:13:14Joe RoganDo you think they know what's going on?
2:13:16Elon MuskYeah, I mean, it's got to be, like, pretty weird. Like, no, I would imagine I dragging this dead, you know, horse around, and I'm a horse.
2:13:26Joe RoganDo you ever stop and think about your role in civilization? Do you ever stop and think about your role in the culture? Because me, as a person who never met you until today, when I think of you, you know, I've always thought of you as being this weirdo super inventor dude who just somehow or another keeps coming up with new shit.
2:13:45Joe RoganBut there's not a lot of you out there like everybody else seems to be. I mean, obviously you make a lot of money. There's a lot of people that make a lot of money.
2:13:52Joe RoganYou like that clock?
2:13:54Elon MuskYeah.
2:13:55Joe RoganPretty dope.
2:13:56Elon MuskThis is a great clock.
2:13:57Joe RoganYeah. You want one? I'll get you one.
2:13:58Elon MuskSure.
2:13:59Joe RoganOkay. Done.
2:14:00Elon MuskI like weird things like this.
2:14:02Joe RoganOh, this is the coolest is TGT promotion. What is this? TGT Studios. TGT Studios.
2:14:08Elon MuskYeah.
2:14:08Joe RoganYeah. To a gentleman who makes all this by hand. Yeah, it's really cool.
2:14:15Elon MuskMy study is filled with weird devices.
2:14:17Joe RoganWell, get ready for another one. All right, I'm sending it your way.
2:14:21Elon MuskCool.
2:14:21Joe RoganYou want a werewolf, too? I'll hook you up. All right, I'll take one werewolf and one clock. Coming up. Do you think about your role in the culture? Because me, as a person who never met you until today, I've always looked at you and like, wow, like, how's this guy just keep inventing shit?
2:14:39Joe RoganLike, how do you. How do you keep coming up with all these new devices? And what do you ever consider how on you like, I had a dream once that there was a million Tesla's instead of like one Tesla, there was a million Teslas.
2:14:54Elon MuskOkay?
2:14:54Joe RoganNot Chesley the car, but Nikola.
2:14:57Elon MuskOh, yeah, sure.
2:14:58Joe RoganAnd that in his day, there was a million people like him, who were radically innovative. It was a weird dream, man. It was so strange. And I've had it more than once.
2:15:08Elon MuskResulted in very rapid technology innovation, that's for sure.
2:15:12Joe RoganIt's one of the only dreams in my life I've had more than one time. Okay, like where I've woken up and it's in the same dream. I'm in the same dream.
2:15:19Joe RoganAnd in this dream, it's 1940s, 1950s, but everyone is severely advanced. There's flying blimps with, like, LCD screens on the side of them, and everything's bizarre and strange. And it stuck with me for whatever reason.
2:15:36Joe RoganObviously this is just a stupid dream, but for whatever reason, all these years, that stuck with me. Like, it takes one man like Nikola Tesla to have more than a hundred inventions that were patents.
2:15:49Joe RoganRight? I mean, he had some. It's pretty great, pretty fucking amazing ideas.
2:15:55Elon MuskYes.
2:15:55Joe RoganBut there was. In his day, there was very few people like him.
2:15:59Elon MuskThat is true.
2:16:00Joe RoganWhat if there was a million? Like what?
2:16:02Elon MuskAnd then things would advance very quickly.
2:16:04Joe RoganRight? But there's not a million. Elon Musk says one. Motherfucker. Do you think about that or you just try to not.
2:16:24Elon MuskI don't think. I don't think you'd necessarily want to be me.
2:16:29Joe RoganWell, what's the worst part about it?
2:16:31Elon MuskI don't think people would like it that much.
2:16:32Joe RoganWell, most people wouldn't, but they can't be you. So that's like. That's like some superhero type shit, you know? You wouldn't want to be Spider Man. Rather just sleep tight in Gotham City.
2:16:44Joe RoganI hope he's out there doing his job.
2:16:48Elon MuskIt's very hard to turn it off.
2:16:50Joe RoganYeah. What's the hardest part?
2:16:52Elon MuskMight sound great if it's turned on, but what if it doesn't turn off?
2:16:56Joe RoganNow, I showed you the isolation tank and you've never experienced that before. I think that could help you turn it off a little bit. Just for the night.
2:17:05Elon MuskYeah.
2:17:05Joe RoganJust give you a little bit of sleep, a little bit of perspective. Magnesium that you get from the water as well, that makes you. Makes you sleep easier because the water has Epsom salts in it.
2:17:14Joe RoganBut maybe some sort of strategy for sacrificing your biological. Not sacrificing, but enhancing your biological recovery time by figuring out a way, whether it's through meditation or some other ways, to shut off that.
2:17:32Joe RoganThat thing at night. Like, you must have, like, a constant stream of ideas that's running through your head. All the. Getting text messages from chicks.
2:17:44Elon MuskNo, I'm getting text Messages from friends saying, what the hell are you doing smoking weed?
2:17:53Joe RoganIs that bad for you? It's legal. It's got approved.
2:17:57Elon MuskIt's not. You know, I'm not a regular smoker of weed.
2:18:02Joe RoganHow often you smoke it?
2:18:04Elon MuskAlmost never. I mean, I don't actually notice any effect.
2:18:12Joe RoganWell, there you go. There was a time where I think it was Ram Dass or someone gave some Buddhist monk a bunch of acid.
2:18:19Elon MuskOkay.
2:18:20Joe RoganAnd he ate it, and it had no effect on him.
2:18:23Elon MuskI doubt that.
2:18:25Joe RoganI would say that too, but I've never meditated to the level that some of these people have, where they're constantly meditating all day, they don't have any material possessions, and all of their energy is spent trying to achieve a certain mindset.
2:18:38Joe RoganI would like to cynically deny that. I'd like to cynically say they just fucking think the same way I do. They just hang out with flip flops on and make weird noises.
2:18:49Joe RoganBut maybe.
2:18:49Elon MuskNo, you know, I. I know a lot of people like weed, and that's fine, but I don't find that it is very good for productivity.
2:19:01Joe RoganFor you?
2:19:02Elon MuskNot for me.
2:19:03Joe RoganYeah. I mean, I would imagine that for someone like you. It's not someone like you. It'd be more like a cup of coffee, right? You want to. You have a latte?
2:19:14Elon MuskYeah, it's more like the opposite of a cup of coffee.
2:19:16Joe RoganWhat do you like?
2:19:16Elon MuskIt's like a cup of coffee in reverse.
2:19:18Joe RoganOh, weed is.
2:19:19Elon MuskYeah.
2:19:19Joe RoganNo, I'm saying you would like more. More like, what would be beneficial to you would be like coffee.
2:19:24Elon MuskI like to get things done. I like to be useful. That is one of the hardest things to do, is to be useful.
2:19:32Joe RoganWhen you say you like to get things done in terms of, like, what gives you satisfaction when you complete a project, when something. Something that you invent comes to fruition and you see people enjoying it.
2:19:43Joe RoganThat feeling.
2:19:45Elon MuskYes. Doing something useful for other people that I like doing.
2:19:51Joe RoganThat's interesting for other people,
2:19:55Elon Muskyes.
2:19:56Joe RoganSo that. Do you think that that is maybe the way you recognize that you have this unusual position in the culture where you can uniquely influence certain things because of this?
2:20:09Joe RoganI mean, you essentially have a gift, right? I mean, you would think it was a curse, but I'm sure it's been fueled by many, many years of dissonance, discipline, and learning.
2:20:20Joe RoganBut you essentially have a gift and that you have this radical sort of creativity engine when it comes to innovation and technology. It's like you're just. You're going at a very high RPMs all the time.
2:20:36Joe RoganWhat is that?
2:20:37Elon MuskLike, doesn't stop. I don't know what would happen if I got into a sensory deprivation tank. Let's try Sounds concerning. It's like running the engine with no resistance that seems.
2:20:50Joe RoganIs that what it is though? Maybe it's not.
2:20:53Elon MuskMaybe it's fine. I don't know. I'll try it. I'll try it.
2:20:57Joe RoganHave you ever experimented with meditation or anything?
2:21:02Elon MuskYes.
2:21:03Joe RoganWhat do you do or what have you done, rather?
2:21:08Elon MuskI mean, you just sort of sit there and be quiet and then repeat some mantra which acts as a focal point. It's distill the mind. It distill the mind, but I don't find myself drawn to it frequently.
2:21:28Joe RoganDo you think that perhaps productivity is maybe more attractive to you than enlightenment or even the concept of whatever enlightenment means? Like, what are you trying to achieve when you're meditating all the time View.
2:21:43Joe RoganIt seems like almost like there's a franticness to your creativity that comes out of this burning furnace. And in order for you to calm that thing down, you might have to throw too much water on it.
2:21:59Elon MuskIt's like a never ending explosion.
2:22:03Joe RoganWhat is it like? Try to explain it to a dumb person like me. What's going on?
2:22:10Elon MuskNever ending explosion.
2:22:12Joe RoganIt's just constant ideas just bouncing around.
2:22:15Elon MuskYes.
2:22:15Joe RoganWhoo. Damn.
2:22:18Elon MuskYeah.
2:22:18Joe RoganSo when everybody leaves, it's just Elon sitting at home brushing his teeth. Just bunch of ideas bouncing around your head.
2:22:26Elon MuskYeah, all the time.
2:22:30Joe RoganWhen did you realize that that's not the case with most people?
2:22:38Elon MuskI think when I was, I don't know, five or six or something, I thought I was insane.
2:22:44Joe RoganWhy did you think you were insane?
2:22:45Elon MuskBecause it was clear that other people did not. Their mind wasn't exploding with ideas all the time.
2:22:52Joe RoganThey weren't expressing it, they weren't talking about it all. And you realize by the time you were five or six, like, oh, they're probably not even getting this thing that I'm getting.
2:23:02Elon MuskNo, it was just strange. It was like, hmm, I'm strange. That was my conclusion. I'm strange.
2:23:13Joe RoganBut did you feel diminished by it in any way? Like knowing that this is a weird thing that you really probably couldn't commiserate with with other people, they wouldn't understand you.
2:23:25Elon MuskI hope they wouldn't find out because they might, like, put me away or something. You thought that for a second? Yes.
2:23:30Joe RoganWhen you were little.
2:23:31Elon MuskYeah, I know. They put people away. What if they put me away?
2:23:33Joe RoganLike when you were little, you thought this.
2:23:35Elon MuskYes.
2:23:35Joe RoganWow. Like you thought this is so radically different than the people that are around me. If they find out I got the stream coming in.
2:23:44Elon MuskYeah. Wow. But you know, I was only like five or six.
2:23:51Joe RoganDo you think this is like. I mean, there's, there's outliers biologically, you mean, there's people that are 7 foot 9, there's people who have giant hands, there's people that have eyes that are 2015 vision.
2:24:06Joe RoganThere's always outliers. Do you feel like you like caught this? Like you have got some, you're like on some weird innovation, creativity sort of wave that's very unusual. Like you, you tapped into.
2:24:26Joe RoganI mean, just think of the, the various things you've been able to accomplish in a very short amount of time. And you're constantly doing this. That's a weird. You're a weird person.
2:24:35Elon MuskRight, I agree.
2:24:36Joe RoganYeah. Like what if there's a million Elon Musk's?
2:24:42Elon MuskWell, that would be very, very weird. Whoa. Yeah, that'd be pretty weird. I agree.
2:24:50Joe RoganReal weird.
2:24:51Elon MuskDefinitely.
2:24:55Joe RoganYeah.
2:24:55Elon MuskWhat if there are a million Joe Rogans?
2:24:57Joe RoganOh, there probably is. There's probably 2 million.
2:25:04Joe RoganI mean, I think that's the case with a lot of folks.
2:25:09Elon MuskYeah. I mean, but like, you know, my goal is like, try to do useful things. Try to maximize the probability the future is good. Make the future exciting. Something you look forward to, you know.
2:25:26Elon MuskYou know, with, you know, with Tesla, we're like trying to make things that people love. You know, it's like not like how many, how many things can you buy that you really love, that really give you joy?
2:25:41Elon MuskSo rare. So rare. I wish there were more things. That's what we try to just make things that somebody loves.
2:25:48Joe RoganWhen you, when you think about making things that someone loves, like do you specifically think about like what things would improve people's experience? Like what, what would change the way people interface with life that would make them more relaxed or more happy?
2:26:06Joe RoganYou really think like when you're thinking about things like that, is that like one of your considerations? Like what, what could I do that would help people that maybe they wouldn't be able to figure out?
2:26:17Elon MuskYeah, like what are the set of things that can be done to make the future better? Like, you know, like. So I think a future where we are a space faring civilization and out there among the stars, this is very exciting.
2:26:35Elon MuskThis makes me look forward to the future. This makes me want that future. You know, there are things, there need to be things that make you look forward to waking up in the morning, you wake up in the morning you look forward to the day, look forward to the future.
2:26:52Elon MuskIn a future where we are a space faring civilization and out there among the stars, I think that's very exciting. That is a thing we want. Whereas if you knew we would not be a space frying civilization, but forever confined to Earth, this would not be a good future.
2:27:07Elon MuskThat would be very sad. I think it would be sad.
2:27:10Joe RoganDon't want a sad future of just the finite lifespan of the Earth itself and the solar system itself. That even though it's possibly, you know, I mean, how many, how long do they feel like this sun and the solar system is going to exist?
2:27:24Joe RoganHow many hundreds of millions of years?
2:27:27Elon MuskWell, it's probably. If you're saying when does the sun boil the Oceans?
2:27:32Joe RoganRight
2:27:35Elon Muskabout 500 million years.
2:27:37Joe RoganSo is it sad that we never leave because in 500 million years that happens? Is that what you're saying?
2:27:45Elon MuskNo, I just think like if there are two futurists and one futurists who are out there among the stars and the things we read about in, see in science fiction movies, the good ones are true.
2:27:56Elon MuskWe have these starships and we're going to see what other planets are like. We're a multi planet species and the scope and scale of consciousness is expanded across many civilizations and many planets and many star systems.
2:28:14Elon MuskThis is a great future. This is a wonderful thing to me. And that's what we should strive for.
2:28:23Joe RoganMmm. But that's biological travel. That's cells traveling physically to another location.
2:28:31Elon MuskYes.
2:28:34Joe RoganDo you think that's definitely where we're going?
2:28:36Elon MuskNo.
2:28:37Joe RoganYeah, I don't think so either. I used to think so and now I'm thinking more likely less than ever, like almost every day less likely.
2:28:48Elon MuskWe can definitely go to the moon and Mars.
2:28:50Joe RoganYeah.
2:28:51Elon MuskDo you think we can go to the asteroid belt and we can go to the moons of Jupiter, Saturn, we even get to Pluto.
2:28:57Joe RoganThat'd be the craziest place ever. If we colonized Mars and re terraformed it and turned into like a big Jamaica. Just. I think we should, I mean imagine.
2:29:08Elon MuskGreat, that'd be great.
2:29:10Joe RoganIt's potent, there's amazing. Right. We turn the whole thing into Cancun. Well, I mean over time it wouldn't
2:29:17Elon Muskbe easy, but yes.
2:29:18Joe RoganRight. It's.
2:29:18Elon MuskYou could just. You could warm it up.
2:29:20Joe RoganYeah, you can warm it up. You could add air, you get some water there. I mean over time, hundreds of millions of years or whatever it takes.
2:29:26Elon MuskWe'd be a multi planet species.
2:29:28Joe RoganThat would be amazing.
2:29:29Elon MuskMulti planet Species.
2:29:30Joe RoganThat's what we want to be like air conditioned. Saturn.
2:29:34Elon MuskI'm pro human.
2:29:35Joe RoganMe too. Yeah, me too.
2:29:37Elon MuskI love humanity. I think it's great.
2:29:39Joe RoganWe're glad as a robot that you love humans because we love you too. And we don't want you to kill us and eat us.
2:29:48Elon MuskI mean, you know, strangely, I think a lot of people don't like humanity and see it as blight, but I do not.
2:29:52Joe RoganWell, I think one of those. I think part of that is just they've been, you know, they've been struggling. When people struggle, they associate their struggle with other people.
2:30:02Joe RoganThey never internalize their problems. They look to other people as holding them back. And people suck and fuck people and it's just, you know, it's a never ending cycle.
2:30:14Joe RoganBut not always. Again, most people are really good. Most people. Vast majority.
2:30:22Elon MuskThis may sound corny, it does sound corny. But love is the answer.
2:30:25Joe RoganIt is the answer.
2:30:27Elon MuskYep.
2:30:28Joe RoganYeah, it is. It sounds corny because we're all scared, you know, we're all scared of trying to love people being rejected or someone taking advantage of you because you're trying to be loving.
2:30:40Elon MuskSure.
2:30:40Joe RoganBut if we all could just relax and love each other,
2:30:46Elon Muskwouldn't hurt to have more love in the world.
2:30:48Joe RoganIt definitely wouldn't hurt. Yeah, it'd be great.
2:30:51Elon MuskYeah, we should do that.
2:30:52Joe RoganYeah, I agree, man.
2:30:54Elon MuskReally?
2:30:54Joe RoganHow do you get to fix that? You have a love machine that you're working on?
2:30:59Elon MuskNo, but probably spend more time with your friends and less time on social media.
2:31:05Joe RoganNow deleting social media from your applications, from your phones that give you 10% boost to happiness. What do you think the percentage is?
2:31:18Elon MuskI think probably something like that.
2:31:20Joe RoganYeah. Good. 10%. Yeah.
2:31:23Elon MuskI mean, I mean, the only thing I've kept is Twitter because I kind of like need some means of getting a message out, you know?
2:31:31Joe RoganRight.
2:31:33Elon MuskThat's about it. So far, so good.
2:31:38Joe RoganWell, what's interesting with you, you actually occasionally engage with people on Twitter.
2:31:45Elon MuskYeah, it's.
2:31:46Joe RoganWhat percentage of that is a good idea?
2:31:52Elon MuskGood question.
2:31:53Joe Rogan10%. Right.
2:31:59Joe RoganIt's hard.
2:32:00Elon MuskIt's mostly, I think it's on balance more good than bad. But there's definitely some bad. So do you ever. Hopefully the good outweighs the bad.
2:32:11Joe RoganDo you ever think about how odd it is? The weird feeling that you get when someone says something shitty to you on Twitter and you read it? The weird feeling.
2:32:18Joe RoganThis is a weird little negative jolt. It's like a subjective negative jolt of energy that you don't really need to Absorb. But you do anyway. Well, fuck this guy.
2:32:27Joe RoganFuck him.
2:32:29Elon MuskI mean, there's a lot of negativity on Twitter.
2:32:31Joe RoganIt is. But it's a weird. It's in its form, like, the way if you ingest it, as if you're like. You try to be like a little scientist as you're ingesting it, you're like, what?
2:32:41Joe RoganHow weird is this? And I'm even getting upset at some strange person saying something mean. To me, it's not even accurate.
2:32:51Elon MuskI mean, there are a vast number of negative comments. For the vast majority, I just ignore them. The vast majority.
2:32:59Joe RoganYeah.
2:32:59Elon MuskBut every now and again, you're drawn in. Good.
2:33:03Joe RoganIt's not good.
2:33:04Elon MuskMake mistakes.
2:33:05Joe RoganYes, you can make mistakes.
2:33:07Elon MuskMake some mistakes.
2:33:08Joe RoganWe're all human. We can make mistakes. Yeah, it's hard. And people love it when you say something and you take it back. They're like, fuck you, we saved it forever.
2:33:19Joe RoganFucking screenshot. That shit, bitch. You had that thought. You had that thought like, well, I deleted it. Not good enough. You had the thought, I'm better than you. I never had that thought.
2:33:31Joe RoganYou had that thought, you piece of shit. Look, I saved it. I put it on my blog.
2:33:36Elon MuskYeah. I'm not sure why people think that anyone would think that deleting a tweet makes it go away. It's like, hello, Been the Internet for a while.
2:33:45Joe RoganYeah. Well, it's even like, the thing is, they don't forever want you to be able to delete it, because the problem is, if you don't delete it and you don't believe it anymore, it's really hard to say, hey, that thing above.
2:33:57Joe RoganI don't really believe that anymore. I changed my way. The way I view things.
2:34:00Elon MuskYes.
2:34:00Joe RoganBecause people go, well, fuck you. I have that over there. I'm gonna just take that. I'm not gonna pay attention. That shit you wrote on your.
2:34:06Elon MuskIt's on your permanent record forever, bro.
2:34:08Joe RoganLike high school.
2:34:09Elon MuskWe'll put this on your permanent record.
2:34:11Joe RoganYeah, it's like a tattoo. You keep it.
2:34:14Elon MuskOh, yeah.
2:34:14Joe RoganYeah. Well, it's. It's this thing where there's. It's. It's a. There's a lack of compassion. It's a lack of compassion issue. People just, like, intentionally shitty to each other all the time online and trying to catch.
2:34:27Joe RoganIt's. They're more. Trying to catch people doing something that's arrestable. Like a cop trying to, like, get, you know, arrests on his. His record. It's like they're trying to catch you or something more than they're logically looking at it, thinking it's a bad thing that you've done or that it's an idea they don't agree with so much they need to insult you, trying to catch you.
2:34:48Elon MuskYeah. I mean, it's way easier to be mean social media than it is to be mean in person.
2:34:54Joe RoganYes.
2:34:54Elon MuskWay easier.
2:34:55Joe RoganYeah.
2:34:56Elon MuskYes.
2:34:57Joe RoganIt's weird. It's. It's not a normal way of human interacting. It's cheating. You're not supposed to be able to interact so easily with people we're not looking at.
2:35:06Elon MuskYes.
2:35:06Joe RoganYou would never do that. You'd never be so mean to somebody looking in their eyes. And if you did, you'd feel like shit.
2:35:11Elon MuskMost people.
2:35:12Joe RoganYeah. Unless you're a sociopath, you'd feel terrible.
2:35:15Elon MuskYes.
2:35:19Joe RoganElon Musk, this has been a pleasure.
2:35:21Elon MuskYeah, likewise.
2:35:22Joe RoganIt really has been.
2:35:23Elon MuskIt's been an honor. Thank you for having me.
2:35:25Joe RoganThanks for doing this because I know you don't do a lot of long form stuff like this. I hope I didn't weird you out and I hope you don't get mad that you smoke weed.
2:35:34Joe RoganIt's not bad. It's legal. We're in California. This is just as legal as this whiskey we've been drinking.
2:35:41Elon MuskExactly.
2:35:42Joe RoganThis is all good, right?
2:35:43Elon MuskCheers.
2:35:44Joe RoganThank you. Is there any message you would like to put out other than love is the answer? Because I think you really nailed it with that.
2:35:53Elon MuskNo, I think, you know, I think people should be nicer to each other and give people. And give. Give more credit to others and don't assume that they're mean until you know they're actually mean.
2:36:08Elon MuskYou know, just. It's easy to demonize people. You're usually wrong about it. People are nicer than you think. Give people more credit.
2:36:21Joe RoganI couldn't agree more. And I want to thank you not just for all the crazy innovations you've come up with and your constant flow of ideas, but that you choose to spread that idea, which is.
2:36:35Joe RoganIt's. It's very vulnerable, but it's very honest. And I. It resonates with me. And I believe it. I believe it's true, too. So thank you all you assholes out there.
2:36:45Joe RoganBe nice. Be nice. Bitch. All right. Thank you, everybody. Thank you, Elon.
2:36:50Elon MuskThank you.
2:36:50Joe RoganGood night, everybody.