Joe Rogan Experience #2223 - Elon Musk
Questions on ElonsFAQ asked in this interview (9)
Transcript
0:01Elon MuskJoe Rogan Podcast.
0:03Joe RoganCheck it out. The Joe Rogan Experience Join my day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day.
0:12Elon MuskBut if you want to sort of see like a vision of the future, it's like basically that the, like the top 20 and even the top 100 is like totally dominated by China.
0:22Joe RoganReally?
0:23Elon MuskYeah, this is like China and a little bit of Korea and Taiwan.
0:26Joe RoganSo you. And are you in the top 20 in the world or top 20. Wow. In Diablo?
0:30Elon MuskYeah, yeah.
0:31Joe RoganDo you want to tell everybody your handle? No, no, don't tell. It's not worth it.
0:36Elon MuskWell, they actually listed me with my actual name in the, in the list.
0:40Joe RoganOh, did they really? Oh, interesting.
0:44Elon MuskBut yeah, there's only, there's only two Americans in the top 20. The rest, almost everyone is from Asia.
0:51Joe RoganOtherwise we were talking about something that I think is a really good. Because people always think that video games are frivolous. But, but what you were saying, I think that's really important is it's so difficult that it requires you to only think about that and it can relieve stress.
1:05Joe RoganIt can take out the rest of the world because it's so hard, you can only think about that.
1:10Elon MuskYeah, I mean if I play a video game on extreme difficulty, then I have to concentrate fully on the game and it has a calming effect. It sort of chills down.
1:22Elon MuskAnd I mean you mentioned, I think many people like if you play martial arts or you play pool, like something that forces you. It's like, I think anything that forces you to concentrate fully actually has a calming effect.
1:36Elon MuskI find it just sort of like kind of a restoring effect mentally. Like it's good.
1:43Joe RoganJiu jitsu's like that. Archery's like that as well. Like when you're shooting a bow, you have to. There's so many moving things and you're trying, you know, you have to think only of it.
1:53Joe RoganAnd it cleans the mind.
1:54Elon MuskIt cleans the mind. Yeah, exactly.
1:56Joe RoganI was reading this study about surgeons where they found that surgeons who regularly play video games make less errors.
2:03Elon MuskWell, video games require manual dexterity. So it makes sense.
2:08Joe RoganCompletely makes sense.
2:08Elon MuskActually. If somebody was ever good at video games, I'd say their surgical skill is going to be very good. Because in order to be good at video games, any kind of fast reaction video games, look at this.
2:18Joe Rogan32% fewer errors, 24% faster and scored 26% better overall than their non player colleagues.
2:27Elon MuskOh, I believe that's incredible.
2:29Joe RoganWell, that you should be required in medical school to play video games, don't you think?
2:34Elon MuskIf Somebody's like top, a top ranked video game player and they say they're a surgeon. I'd be like plus one, plus two type of thing.
2:39Joe RoganOh, top rank for sure. This isn't even top ranked. This is just people who play.
2:43Elon MuskWell, your manual dexterity has to be extremely high. So you're looking at things on the screen, you're reacting and you know, sometimes you got like 10 milliseconds to react.
2:51Elon MuskYes. And so if somebody's got incredible reaction times and manual dexterity, they're obviously going to be a good surgeon.
3:00Joe RoganImagine if there was a course that you could take. That course would promote you would be 26% better. Everyone would have to take that course.
3:08Elon MuskSure.
3:08Joe RoganWhy would you want a surgeon that's less prepared? You would say, hey, Bob, did you take this course? You didn't take this course. Don't you understand? This course makes you 26% better.
3:17Joe RoganYou'd have to take it. Everyone should have to play video games if you want to be a surgeon.
3:21Elon MuskWell, I think it certainly would be a very good test to see if somebody can't play video games. Well, that means because you've got to move both hands simultaneously, you've got to react to something very fast on screen and if your keystrokes or your mouse clicks or whatever are wrong, then you lose the game.
3:40Elon MuskSo if somebody has good rank in video games, I would say that their manual, necessarily, their manual dexterity must be extremely good.
3:48Joe RoganWell, it's.
3:48Elon MuskSo the fine motor skills have to be excellent.
3:50Joe RoganIf you think about, like Starcraft or any, any game like Quake, any game where a lot of people are playing to rise to the top, you have to be exceptional, period, as a human being.
3:59Joe RoganYeah, there's to be something exceptional about you.
4:01Elon MuskYeah. Actually Quake, way back in the day, I was one of the world's best Quake players.
4:06Joe RoganI know, we talked about this.
4:07Elon MuskYeah, yeah, I loved Quake. Yeah, yeah. My final semester in college, I probably put more time into Quake than all my college classes.
4:14Joe RoganWhen I was on news radio. All of the writers were super nerds. They were very, very fun guys. And they had a LAN set up at the studio where they all played Quake.
4:23Joe RoganI had never played video games and I would go in with the writers and just kind of hang out with them. We'd get silly and then we'd all start playing video games and playing Quake against each other.
4:32Joe RoganAnd I got addicted, like hardcore. I got a T1 line installed in my house. I went hardcore.
4:38Elon MuskYeah, exactly. Checking how many milliseconds of latency oh,
4:40Joe Roganyeah, I was, I was fully addicted. I was making my own computers. I was going to Fry's hardware and buying motherboards and putting everything together and, you know, it was too much of a time suck, though.
4:54Joe RoganI'm an obsessive person. I can't get involved. Like, I can't play golf.
4:58Elon MuskNo, golf is too slow for me. I mean, a lot of people find golf good. And I mean, I guess if you think of it like it's. I guess if you're saying you're going to walk outdoors with friends and occasionally hit a ball and you're just as an outdoor walk, then that's cool and does require concentration when you're hitting the ball, but it's too slow for me.
5:17Joe RoganNothing compares to video games in terms of the amount of feedback you get, the sensory overload you get when you're looking at a large, high resolution screen. You have a fast computer, you have headphones on, you're hearing sounds from here and sounds behind you and rockets are flying by you.
5:36Joe RoganThere's nothing like that. But I think golf still is. Like, Jamie will tell you. Jamie's an addict. He's a golf nut. It's super addictive and it takes like eight hours a day.
5:47Elon MuskYes. Once you get into golf, I think, I guess any sport, it gets super addictive. So. But for me, the intensity of video games is hard to beat.
5:59Joe RoganYes. And people dismiss it because they think it's just a waste of time. But we're showing like real world benefits of people playing video games.
6:08Elon MuskYeah.
6:08Joe RoganIf you want to be a drone operator, it's the only game in town.
6:10Elon MuskYeah, absolutely.
6:11Joe RoganReally good at video games.
6:12Elon MuskYeah, for sure. So in fact, I can actually tell like what my mental acuity is if I just play. If I play a very hard video game. So if I'm trying to sort of get like an extremely good clear time in Diablo or something like that, or a first person shooter, whatever the case may be.
6:35Elon MuskIf I can tell that I'm tired or my brain's not working as well as it should, it's like a mental calibration. You can tell immediately how good is your mental state.
6:46Joe RoganRight, right.
6:49Elon MuskAnd so if you're trying to play really well, if you play late at night and you're tired, you just play badly and you can say, okay. You may think that your brain is working well, but it isn't.
7:03Elon MuskYou play the video game and you're like, you suck.
7:04Joe RoganSo, okay, yeah, you're putting it under stress. Yeah. You're really stress testing it.
7:09Elon MuskYou Stress test it and. Cause, like, sometimes, like, oh, I think I'm fine. But then play the game. Like, okay, I'm not. I'm like, 10% below what I should be.
7:17Joe RoganThat's how I feel about workouts, for sure. Like, that's how I knew I had Covid, or I knew everyone in my family had Covid. And I was trying to not get.
7:25Joe RoganGet Covid. And so I was working out. I was like, something's up. I felt fine normally, but then during exercise, I was like, okay, I can tell there's something wrong here, so let's back off, relax.
7:35Joe RoganYeah, yeah. It's like people who don't stress test their mind, they think they're operating on the same level all the time. Like, sometimes I come in here and I can't form a fucking sentence, and I don't know what it is.
7:47Joe RoganIt's like, what is going on?
7:49Elon MuskSo it's just like, sleep's not. Maybe, like, what, sleep wasn't that good?
7:52Joe RoganOr something like that. Yeah, something like that. Or I'm too busy and it's just. It's not. The words aren't coming out. I know how to talk. I talk professionally, and I can't fucking talk.
8:00Joe RoganIt's like.
8:00Elon MuskI mean, sleep is massive. I mean, huge. Yeah. So if I can tell immediately did I get a good night's sleep or not? If I just play, like, video game for, like, five minutes, I'm like, okay, my sleep wasn't that good because it's my.
8:15Elon MuskYou know, and sometimes they don't. Your brain will recover through the day, and it's like, okay, like an hour or two after waking up. It's better.
8:22Joe RoganYeah.
8:23Elon MuskBecause your brain does kind of recover from bad nights of sleep a little bit during the day.
8:27Joe RoganDo you know what really helps creatine, apparently.
8:29Elon MuskDoes it?
8:29Joe RoganYeah. Creatine is actually a nootropic, believe it or not. There's a lot of benefits of creatine that are really weird.
8:35Elon MuskAre there any downsides?
8:36Joe RoganNo, no. It's a natural part of food. Yeah. Yeah. Especially women. For women, apparently, especially postmenopausal women, it's very beneficial. But there's a lot of, like, cognitive benefits. And one of the big ones that they found recently is performance when sleep deprived.
8:54Joe RoganMental performance when sleep deprived increases pretty measurably when you supplement with creatine.
9:00Elon MuskIs creatine naturally occurring in, like, steak or doctor?
9:02Joe RoganYeah, it's like naturally occurring in meat, I think. I think that's where it's coming from. I think it's primarily an animal based thing. Yeah.
9:11Elon MuskBut like I did switch to like steak and eggs for breakfast and I found that's like a power up.
9:16Joe RoganOh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well we're all overrun with carbohydrates.
9:20Elon MuskYeah, yeah, totally.
9:21Joe RoganAnd you just like carbohydrates make this big crash. The rise and the crash rise and the crash crash. You stay flat. If you eat like a primarily high protein, high fat diet, your body runs off ketosis essentially.
9:34Elon MuskSo I just have like steak and eggs. No bread or anything. Yeah, and it's great actually. It's a power up.
9:39Joe RoganI'd say people dismiss this whole carnivore diet thing because in our heads there's a lot of propagandists that put this thing out there that animal agriculture is the number one contributor to global warming.
9:52Elon MuskYeah, it's rubbish. Bullshit.
9:54Joe RoganIt's hot bullshit.
9:55Elon MuskIt doesn't matter.
9:55Joe RoganNot only is it hot bullshit, but the real problem is factory farming. Regenerative farming is carbon neutral.
10:02Elon MuskIf it doesn't sequester carbon, the animals are not going to make any difference to global warming. None.
10:08Joe RoganNo.
10:08Elon MuskIt's worse or nothing.
10:10Joe RoganDo you think that that's just propaganda because of people that have a vested interest in like plant based meat products and things along those lines? Green energy?
10:18Elon MuskI think that's part of it. You know, you're only going to get people pushing to avoid meat. Like some people just, you know, maybe they've got a financial interest, maybe they're just like vegetarians or vegans or whatever.
10:31Elon MuskIdeological interests, ideological reasons. But it's not going to make any difference to global warming or you know, the CO2 concentration atmosphere. Really if people eat pure steaks, it doesn't matter.
10:44Elon MuskIt's irrelevant. Irrelevant. I want to just be super clear about that.
10:47Joe RoganYeah, it will not matter.
10:48Elon MuskWill not even be able to measure it. Okay. That's how irrelevant it is, isn't it?
10:53Joe RoganFunny that that's unmeasurable.
10:54Elon MuskIrrelevant.
10:55Joe RoganThat's a heretic. Speaking like that's crazy talk now nowadays it's like you have to say that we have to eat less meat, that meat is bad.
11:02Elon MuskYou can totally eat as much meat as you want. It's not going to make a difference.
11:06Joe RoganSing it, sing it. Tell the world.
11:07Elon MuskYeah, absolutely. And if somebody says it does make a difference, I'm like, how will you measure it? And if you can't even measure it, then it's bullshit. Yeah, yeah.
11:14Elon MuskLiterally I won't be able to measure it.
11:16Joe RoganWell, there's so much bullshit out today.
11:18Elon MuskFirst of all, yes, Bullshit in all directions.
11:20Joe RoganThank you so much for buying Twitter. Thank you so much. I'm not exaggerating when I think you changed the course of history. I really do. I really think you.
11:30Joe RoganYou made a fork in the road. We were headed down a path of censorship and of control of narratives that is unprecedented. Forget about what they were able to do back when they had newspapers and the media under control, what they were doing with social media by suppressing information, and when you had a combined government effort, like what they were doing with the laptop story.
11:55Joe RoganWe have 51 former intelligence agents saying that this is Russian disinformation. Take it offline. And Twitter complied. If you didn't buy that, we wouldn't have known that. We had no idea.
12:07Elon MuskExactly. The reason I border is because I'm pretty attuned since I was like, the most interacted with a user on Twitter before the acquisition. So before the acquisitions that add more interactions that then, like, there's some accounts like Obama and whatever had higher follower accounts, but I had the most number of interactions of any account in the system.
12:29Elon MuskSo I was very attuned to, like, if they saw change, if they change the system, I can tell immediately, like, and I'm like, something weird is going on here.
12:38Elon MuskYou know, like, yeah, there's like, I just got increasingly uneasy and obviously when they deplatformed the sitting president, you know, deplatformed Trump, that was just insane, you know, and the things he was posting, like, he was posting things that, like, he was posting good things.
12:58Elon MuskHe was saying like, hey, do not riot. Don't do any destruction of property. You know, please stay calm. That's the kind of stuff he's posting.
13:08Joe RoganYeah.
13:08Elon MuskAnd you're like, what's wrong with that? And then some people said like, oh, that's like some sort of dog whistle. He means the opposite. I'm like, okay, so we'll give you Trump's account now.
13:18Elon MuskYou post what you think he should post because you can post nothing. You can ask people to calm down. Like, what? It was insane. Like, it didn't make any sense.
13:28Joe RoganWell, it's completely illogical when you say it's dog whistling to tell his followers to not be violent. That's crazy.
13:34Elon MuskCrazy.
13:35Joe RoganThat's crazy.
13:36Elon MuskCrazy.
13:36Joe RoganDon't you think they'll listen to him? Yeah, isn't that the whole point? They listened to him and created violence in the first place. That's what you think. That's what you're accusing him of.
13:44Elon MuskRight.
13:45Joe RoganAnd then there's the fact that we know that there was agents in the crowd that were agent provocateurs that were encouraging people to do illegal shit. Yes, we know that for a fact.
13:54Joe RoganThis is not. That was always the big Alex Jones type tinfoil hat conspiracy theory. Because Alex proposed that back at the World Trade Organization protests, I believe we're in Seattle in the 90s, and they sent in agent provocateurs, started smashing things, lighting things on fire.
14:12Joe RoganNow all sudden, a peaceful protest is no longer peaceful. They move in, the cops, they shut everything down. They had it set up where it was a no protest zone where you couldn't even have a pin that had the WTO with a red line through it.
14:24Joe RoganThey wouldn't let you go in through to go to work. So you couldn't protest. You couldn't exercise your First Amendment rights. You couldn't even, like have a peaceful protest.
14:33Joe RoganA fucking sticker on your car. You couldn't have that. It's crazy.
14:36Elon MuskIt is crazy. So, no, I think we're very much at a fork in the road, in destiny. And, you know, so, I mean, the reason I did the Twitter acquisition was like, it's like, man, if I don't do this, I think we're screwed is the issue.
14:52Joe RoganWell, if you didn't do it, no one else was going to do it because it wasn't a financial winner. It was kind of a crazy move.
14:58Elon MuskIt's a crazy move. I mean, the thing was way overpriced. And, you know, like, long term, I think we can, we can ultimately make it a win for investors, but, boy, this is a hard way to make a living.
15:12Joe RoganWell, there's also a concerted effort to suppress it. There's a concerted effort with the advertisers.
15:17Elon MuskWell, we had. I still have a massive advertiser boycott that was organized by a bunch of left wing NGOs. Like, you know, and you always want. And I should have, I should have brought my.
15:30Elon MuskI have a hat make Orwell fiction again.
15:32Joe RoganI've seen that hat.
15:34Elon MuskYeah, I should have brought. I was gonna wear my. I should have brought my make all fiction hat again. But yeah, I mean, it's just totally, totally nuts.
15:45Joe RoganSo if you didn't do it, no one would have. And here's the hilarious narrative that I keep hearing from idiots. Elon's a bad businessman. Twitter is worth, you know, 400% less than when he bought it.
15:57Joe RoganNo, it wasn't worth that in the first place.
15:58Elon MuskIt wasn't worth that in the first place.
16:00Joe RoganIt wasn't worth $44 billion, you fucking morons. Like wrong. And also you're not taking into account the advertiser boycott.
16:06Elon MuskExactly.
16:06Joe RoganThat's total bullshit.
16:08Elon MuskYeah, exactly. So there are these organizations, you can tell there's like, they're like when they have an Orwellian name. So like the center for Countering Digital Hate is a total scam organization, you know, because they're like the Ministry of Truth type of thing in Orwell, you know, they're a censorship organization.
16:30Joe RoganYeah.
16:30Elon MuskAnd they organize and they pushed the advertisers to boycott. So we still have like some of the boycott is starting to lift and I think if Trump wins, we'll see, you know, probably most of the boycott left, but if Kamala wins, we'll see that boycott get stronger and they'll freaking shut down.
16:52Elon MuskThere's no way that the so called public regime would allow X to exist.
16:56Joe RoganYou really think that they'll be able to shut it down though? Is there a pathway to that?
17:01Elon MuskYes.
17:01Joe RoganWhat would they do?
17:05Elon MuskWell, I mean they can just, they can stick the DOJ on, you know, and say like, you know, they've had this whole thing about like hate speech, misinformation, whatever, except they're the ones pushing the misinformation.
17:16Elon MuskBut that doesn't stop them from filing massive lawsuits and using the DOJ. I mean like the DOJ has been attacking SpaceX, for example, for not hiring asylum seekers, even though it is legal for SpaceX to hire anyone who is not a permanent resident of the U.S.
17:32Elon Muskso we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. Just an example of what DOJ can do.
17:38Joe RoganSo it's illegal to hire someone who's not American American citizen.
17:43Elon MuskSpaceX is considered an advanced weapons technology, so it's covered by international traffic and arms regulations because we make rocket technology that can be used against the United States. It's like if North Korea or Iran got SpaceX rocket technology, they could use that to launch nukes at America.
17:59Joe RoganRight?
17:59Elon MuskThat would be bad.
18:00Joe RoganYeah, that'd be really bad.
18:02Elon MuskThat'd be really bad. So since we are in the most extreme category of weapons technology at SpaceX, under US ITAR law, it is illegal for us to hire anyone who's not a permanent resident because the presumption is that if they're not a permanent resident, they are going to return to their home country and take the rocket technology with them.
18:24Elon MuskSo that's. So it's illegal for us to hire anyone who's not either has not. They can have a green card or be a citizen, they just have to be a permanent resident of the United States.
18:36Elon MuskThen there's another law that says if you discriminate against asylum seekers, that's also. You're also breaking the law. So they just. So they. The doj. The DOJ can only do a small number of big lawsuits every year.
18:51Elon MuskLaunched a giant lawsuit against SpaceX saying that SpaceX discriminated against asylum seekers. And we're like, but we're like, but it's illegal for us to hire anyone who's not a permanent resident.
19:03Elon MuskSo we're in this. Like, this is what I mean. It's like, oh, well, the Orwell situation is getting insane. Like, you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't, so you're damned.
19:12Joe RoganCan you imagine history looking back up, man, at when you watch the robot arms catch the rocket and you realize, like, this is like one of the greatest accomplishments in the history of aerospace.
19:25Joe RoganLike, it is one of the wildest accomplishments. When you watch that thing come and you see all those people cheering and it catches it perfectly. Like, holy shit. Imagine how history is going to look back at the DOJ going after that company.
19:40Elon MuskYeah.
19:40Joe RoganHow insane it is.
19:41Elon MuskBig lawsuit with an army of lawyers. Like, this was not like some minor
19:45Joe Roganthing, but it doesn't even make any sense logically. Like, how can it even get brought to court if it's illegal?
19:50Elon MuskExactly. So that's what I mean. Like, basically, if the government wants to go after you, they'll just find a reason. It's like that famous quote from Beria, you know, like Stalin's like, chief torturer, the head of Stalin's secret police, and he's like, chief torture, truly evil human being.
20:07Elon MuskLike this guy Beria, his. One of his famous quotes was, show me the man and I'll show you the crime.
20:13Joe RoganRight?
20:14Elon MuskThey just, they just, they, like, they decide that you're the target and then they figure out the crime afterwards. That's the issue. They decided SpaceX was the target. They just figured out the crime afterwards.
20:26Joe RoganWhich is so crazy because that's exactly what they're saying Trump is going to do if he gets into office.
20:31Elon MuskThey're doing all the things that they accused Trump of doing.
20:34Joe RoganYeah, Openly.
20:36Elon MuskOpenly, Yeah. I mean, the sheer number of hoaxes that the Democratic Party is pushing over and over again and it's like, look, I understand, like, politicians are going to, you know, exaggerate, they're going to misspeak and they'll tell occasional, you know, untruths, whatever.
20:55Elon MuskThat's how it is. In politics. But when you have deliberate, concerted, repeated pushing of hoaxes, you're like, wait a second. Like, come on, man. This is too. This is too far.
21:06Joe RoganAnd you're supposed to be the good guys.
21:07Elon MuskYou're supposed to. And you claim to be the good guys. I'm like, exactly.
21:10Joe RoganYou're supposed to be the progressives.
21:12Elon MuskYes. The Dems are like, oh, we're the good guys. We're the honest people. No, no, hang on. You can't claim to be the good guys. You can't claim to be the honest people if you're deliberately post pushing hoaxes that have been debunked thoroughly.
21:24Elon MuskYeah, well, like, even Snopes, which is a liberal thing, says it's bogus.
21:28Joe RoganYeah.
21:29Elon MuskLike, the fine people hoax.
21:31Joe RoganObama just said that on stage.
21:32Elon MuskObama just said that.
21:33Joe RoganI was like, what the flying fuck? He doesn't give a fuck. He doesn't give a fuck. They're just. They're just a goddamn fucking lie. Flat out lie. Flat out fucking lie.
21:40Joe RoganHow about the other one where Kamala's campaign used what Trump was saying about protecting women from illegal immigrants?
21:47Elon MuskThank you.
21:47Joe RoganYou remember that? What he was saying is, whether the women like it or not, I'm gonna do it.
21:52Elon MuskYeah.
21:53Joe RoganWhen he was saying that, they were trying to say that he was taking away women's right to choose whether women like it or not. Like, that's not what he was saying.
22:00Elon MuskAbsolutely.
22:01Joe RoganHe was literally talking about protecting them from dangerous people that are sneaking in through the border.
22:05Elon MuskYes, exactly. They'll take, like, not even a full sentence, like a half a sentence from Trump, and then they'll push it on every ad, every speaking event, every day.
22:15Joe RoganAnd it gets repeated on the news.
22:17Elon MuskYes.
22:17Joe RoganThis is what's crazy. They'll talk about it on these new shows. Quote, new shows.
22:22Elon MuskYeah, exactly. I mean, a recent one that came up, which had a lot of people, because a lot of people reached out to me was like, they're like, oh, Trump says he wants to execute Liz Cheney.
22:34Elon MuskI'm like, that is utter bullshit.
22:36Joe RoganIt's not what he said at all.
22:37Elon MuskIt's not what he said at all. All he said was like, what he's saying is that, look, if Liz Cheney actually had to fight at the front lines, should think twice about going to war.
22:51Joe RoganExactly.
22:51Elon MuskLike, it's easy to. It's easy to go to war. It's easy to be a warmonger if you don't have to, you know, risk dying at the front lines. Like, if other.
22:59Elon MuskLike, basically, it's fucked Up. If people are having, like, fancy dinners in Washington, D.C. while people are being slaughtered in trenches, you know, it's like, you're not feeling the pain.
23:10Joe RoganExactly.
23:10Elon MuskYou're not taking the risk. It's someone else dying that's like. That's cruel and lacking in empathy. And all Trump was saying was that it's like Liz Cheney would be much.
23:21Elon MuskLiz Cheney would be much less of a warmonger because she's a huge warmonger, just like her dad, if she actually had to go to the front lines and fight herself.
23:30Joe RoganAnd meanwhile, they're saying that he shouldhe's saying she should be shot.
23:33Elon MuskYes. Which is a total lie.
23:36Joe RoganBut I had, like, tons of people
23:37Elon Muskcall me this weekend saying, oh, Trump says he's gonna put Liz Traney in a firing squad. Like, that is an outrageous lie. And legacy media ran with that lie big time.
23:47Joe RoganYeah. It's crazy. It's just wild to see. And if it wasn't for Twitter or X now, I don't think we would know about all this stuff. I think it would be very difficult for you.
23:57Joe RoganI think YouTube throttled. They did something weird. They won't say what they did, but they did something weird with the Trump interview that I did.
24:03Elon MuskYeah.
24:04Joe RoganWhere you couldn't find it.
24:04Elon MuskIt doesn't make sense.
24:07Joe RoganIt made no sense.
24:07Elon MuskI mean, it was like the biggest interview on earth. Yeah. And you can't find it.
24:12Joe RoganYeah. Not only that, it was, like, trending.
24:14Elon MuskBullshit.
24:15Joe RoganIt wasn't trending.
24:16Elon MuskIt was ending.
24:18Joe RoganWasn't trending. You're like.
24:21Elon MuskLike, there's just no excuse for that, man.
24:23Joe RoganNo excuse.
24:23Elon MuskThere's no excuse.
24:24Joe RoganGetting a million views. One point was at one point for an hour. At 1.5. 1.5 an hour.
24:30Elon MuskYeah.
24:31Joe RoganAnd it wasn't trending.
24:32Elon MuskYeah.
24:32Joe RoganLike.
24:33Elon MuskAnd it's like. It's like your channel is a known channel. It's not. It's not like it was started yesterday. It's like. Yeah. It's like, this is a high trust.
24:41Elon MuskYours is a high trust channel. It's like you're not trying to sell scam crypto coins.
24:48Joe RoganWell, thank God we put it on X as well, because I think just with your account and my account alone, it's like 70 million views.
24:54Elon MuskYeah, exactly.
24:56Joe RoganYeah. Well, it's like you can't hide things anymore because of you. And if it wasn't for you, I think they would have had total control of social media by now.
25:04Joe RoganThey banned so many accounts during the pandemic, so many dissenting scientists and doctors. Doctors and physicians. They banned so many conspiracy theorists, so many people that colored outside the lines.
25:15Joe RoganThey would have done that everywhere. And it probably would have. I think even what's going on at Facebook, they're being more lenient. You know, you hear Zuckerberg talking about taking a more libertarian stance.
25:27Joe RoganThat's entirely reaction to the way Twitter has kind of moved the watermark.
25:32Elon MuskExactly. So as soon as any company steps out of line and is willing to actually have the truth debated on their platform, it forces the other platform forms to allow things to be more truthful, to not censor, because their censorship becomes glaringly obvious.
25:50Joe RoganYes.
25:50Elon MuskYes. And you know, the best thing I found for as a rebuttal, like, if somebody, if there's a hoax is just go to the source material. You know, if you think.
25:59Elon MuskIf somebody thinks, you know, you know, Trump said that we should put Liz Cheney in a firing squad. I'm like, let me send you a link to X so you can watch his video.
26:10Elon MuskThat's the best way. Don't take my opinion for it. Don't take anyone's opinion for it. Go to the source material.
26:15Joe RoganAnd Community Notes.
26:16Elon MuskYes. And Community Notes is awesome.
26:17Joe RoganCommunity Notes is the best.
26:18Elon MuskIt's awesome.
26:19Joe RoganIt's incredible because everybody gets checked.
26:21Elon MuskYes. Including me.
26:23Joe RoganYeah.
26:24Elon MuskAnd with Community Notes, all the software is open source and all the data is open source, so you can recreate any given note independently.
26:34Joe RoganThat's amazing.
26:35Elon MuskYeah.
26:35Joe RoganThat's how it should be. That's how it should be.
26:37Elon MuskTotal, absolute transparency in every way. You know, sometimes I get asked like, oh, Elon, can you remove a note? You know, mostly by the left, but sometimes by the right, I'm like, I'm like, I don't even remove.
26:48Elon MuskRemove notes on my own account. Nothing. And by the way, everything is totally open. So if I did that, it would stick out like a sore thumb immediately. Like it's not going to be subtle.
26:58Joe RoganThat is the best counter to misinformation.
27:00Elon MuskYes, absolutely.
27:01Joe RoganLike, let everybody look at it and say, okay, here's what the actual facts say.
27:05Elon MuskYes, exactly. The counter to misinformation is better information.
27:09Joe RoganNot just that, but having it checked in real time by the community. So you have millions of people that can go over and debate whether or not this is true or that's true.
27:18Elon MuskYes. And like I said, the best way to understand the truth of things is don't take anyone's opinion for it. Look at the source material. Look at what someone actually said.
27:28Elon MuskLook at what someone actually did. Look at the real videos of the situation, and then you can actually. You'll know what's real.
27:35Joe RoganSo as of today, when you were literally on your way here, you sent me this text saying that they're trying to lock you up in jail in Pennsylvania. Tell me what the fuck is happening.
27:45Elon MuskWell, you know, there's the classic sort of Soros da situation. So we're making a lot of progress in Pennsylvania. So, you know, I've given a whole bunch of talks throughout the state because Pennsylvania's the linchpin in this election.
28:00Elon MuskYou know, whoever wins Pennsylvania wins the election. So I've been giving. I spent three years in Pennsylvania. I went to college in Philadelphia. So it's not like I'm not a total.
28:12Elon MuskI'm not a total stranger to the state. You know, I spent three years there. And we've organized this petition in support of the Constitution, which I think is a good thing, and specifically asking people to.
28:31Elon MuskAnd we wanted this to be like, registered voters in swing states. Like, basically, we want to send a message to the politicians to say that the people care about the Constitution because there have been all these attacks on the Constitution, especially on the Democrat side.
28:46Elon MuskThey've been repeatedly saying that the First Amendment is an obstacle. And they're claiming, oh, the First Amendment is enabling disinformation, misinformation. And I'm like, yo, there's a reason for the First Amendment, like freedom of speech.
29:00Elon MuskThe reason the founders of the country put, you know, the freedom of speech there is because they came from countries where if you spoke your mind, you would get shot or imprisoned.
29:10Elon MuskThat's why the First Amendment exists. And the Second Amendment is there to stop the tyranny of government. The Second Amendment, the right to bear arms, is there to protect freedom of speech.
29:24Elon MuskYou know.
29:29Elon MuskYou know, and I've had these debates, especially with people in la, because they're like, want to take everyone's guns away. And I'm like, yo, can you guarantee me that the government, that we will never have a tyrannical government in the United States?
29:42Elon MuskCan you make that guarantee? They're like, well, nobody can make that guarantee. I'm like, then we need to keep our guns because that's what's going to stop it.
29:51Joe RoganThat sounds crazy for people to hear because they think about gun violence and gun problems and gun this and gun that. But that's the reality of the world that we live in, is that tyranny is possible and it exists other places and it's slowly existing.
30:05Joe RoganIt's slowly rearing its head. In the uk, you're Seeing I think the number of people that have been arrested for just social media posts is bananas. It's in the thousands.
30:18Elon MuskYes. Several thousand people have been given prison sentences in the UK for social media posts that. Where there was no explicit link to actual violence, but they just said it encouraged violence.
30:30Elon MuskLike. Well, did anyone actually do anything as a result of that media post? Well, no, but they're just. And then they have a prison overcrowding situation in the uk so they quite literally releasing convicted pedophiles and putting people in jail for Facebook posts.
30:47Elon MuskThere's an actual thing happening in Britain
30:51Joe Roganthat is so wild, like it's. You're, like it's so wild that people
30:54Elon Muskcan't see, you know, is going on.
30:56Joe RoganAnd what's insane to me.
30:57Elon MuskMake oral fiction again.
30:58Joe RoganYeah, you know, but it's all being encouraged by the left. Katanji, Brown, Jackson. John Kerry.
31:04Elon MuskJohn Kerry was one of the people who said that. He's on camera like a few weeks ago saying that the First Amendment is an obstacle to fighting misinformation.
31:13Joe RoganYeah. That's crazy. That's such a crazy thing to say. When you have a solution in Community Notes, you have a solution in something that could clear everything up, any confusion within a day or two.
31:24Elon MuskAnd even without a community Note, you can reply to a post with evidence that shows that the post is wrong. You don't even need community notes. Community Notes is helpful because it sticks to the original note.
31:34Elon MuskBut in the replies you can say, here's why you're wrong, here are the reasons and here's the evidence.
31:38Joe RoganThe argument is that people are too unsophisticated, that they're not going to research these things, they're going to be a victim of misinformation. So they're going to read something that's incorrect, they're going to run with it, people are going to die, people are going to.
31:51Joe RoganWe're going to ruin the world because people believed in misinformation. It's a stupid argument. It's a stupid argument because it's an argument that they're too dumb to know what's right or wrong.
31:59Joe RoganIf you know because you're saying it's misinformation, why do you think that you're smarter than everybody who reads that?
32:05Elon MuskExactly. And obviously anyone on the X system knows that things are posted and then there are replies and there are rebuttals and it's immediately corrected. But where are the corrections for the legacy media?
32:16Elon MuskYou know, if, you know, some broadcast media, they say false things all the time. But it's a one way street. There's no rebuttal, there's no counter.
32:26Joe RoganRight, right. Who's apologized for being incorrect about what? Did Rachel Maddow ever apologize for telling everybody that if you get the COVID vaccine, you're never going to get Covid.
32:37Joe RoganIt won't. The virus stops with you.
32:39Elon MuskNever.
32:39Joe RoganNever. No one ever. It's just, it was not true at the time. There was no evidence to support it at the time. It's pure propaganda. And she said it.
32:46Joe RoganThe Russiagate hoax. For three fucking years. They said that he was Putin's toy and that Putin had him compromised.
32:54Elon MuskThe Steele dossier, Steele dossier was completely fabricated by a lawyer at Perkins Coy who was paid by the Clinton campaign. Literally.
33:03Joe RoganCrazy.
33:03Elon MuskAnd still people think the Russian hoax
33:04Joe Roganis real and there's no repercussions, there's no one had to apologize. Hillary Clinton never came out and apologized for that and people still listen to her. The whole thing is crazy.
33:13Joe RoganAnd it's all coming from the left, which, growing up as a person who was in the left my whole life, it doesn't make any fucking sense.
33:19Elon MuskSame, I mean I even, I was on the left until like three years ago. I mean, it's not the left anymore. It's not the left anymore. It's just like I think we obviously want, I mean, I believe like we want freedom.
33:37Elon MuskLike we want, we want to maximize personal liberty. I think we want to be kind to people. You know, we want to have empathy and, but it's very important to have personal freedom and a merit based society.
33:52Elon MuskAnd the left wants to oppress your freedoms, especially freedom of speech. And they want to, they want to have a non merit based society, you know, with race based and sex based preferences.
34:05Elon MuskAnd it's like, well, wait a second. No, we just want people to succeed based on their skills and their hard work.
34:10Joe RoganAnd if they don't want people to express themselves about particular issues, then they're not doing the will of the people. And if they're trying to suppress people's ability to communicate, they're only doing that because they want to do things that people don't want them to do.
34:22Joe RoganAnd they want to silence opposition. That's all it is. And the fact that people can't see that and they want to call Trump a fascist. The whole thing is, it's just through the looking glass.
34:33Elon MuskI mean, it's like one hoax after another that they're perpetrating against Trump. I mean like they try to call the rally at Madison Square Gardens, like a Nazi rally.
34:39Elon MuskI'm like, yo, there was like literally an Israeli flag in the audience. I think like a quarter of the speakers were Jewish. Like, there was like, there were people of every race, color, creed, religion at that rally.
34:51Elon MuskLike, tell me what about that is Nazi? And yet it was portrayed as a Nazi rally.
34:56Joe RoganWell, msnbc, they literally showed video of the Nazi rally from the 1930s and then compared it to the Trump rally, ignoring the fact that fucking Jimmy Carter spoke there.
35:07Elon MuskThere have been dozens of political rallies at Madison Square Gardens. Dozens. On the Democrat side. Like, people on X were like. And here's exactly, here's Jimmy Carter and here's Bill Clinton and here's.
35:19Elon MuskWait a second. Actually, it looks like every presidential candidate has done a. On the Democrat side has done a rally at Madison Square Gardens. Are they Nazis too?
35:27Joe RoganBut what they're doing is they're preying on low information voters who aren't engaged actively on social media, who don't have the time to look through everything.
35:36Elon MuskExactly.
35:37Joe RoganYeah.
35:38Elon MuskLike people are living. If people are just on looking at legacy mainstream media, then they have a totally different worldview than if they're on X and seeing the actual flow of argument and the actual evidence.
35:50Joe RoganWell, what was the pushback like, what happened when you guys released the Twitter files? Because I think the Twitter files is probably one of the most important things in this age of information for understanding the influence that government has on social media and on discourse.
36:04Joe RoganBecause when we found out that that was the case, that the government was actually asking Twitter to remove posts that were factual all the time, they did the same thing to Facebook.
36:13Joe RoganThey had them throttle pieces of one of Tucker Carlson's show. They suppressed the views by 50% of factual information.
36:21Elon MuskYeah. No, there was massive government interference in Twitter. But like Twitter welcomed it. That's important to old. Twitter welcomed it all. Twitter was controlled by far left activists.
36:35Joe RoganYeah.
36:37Elon MuskAnd they welcomed the government interference. They got paid by the government for it.
36:43Joe RoganThat's crazy. They got paid for their time, correct?
36:45Elon MuskYeah, they got paid millions of dollars for. For suppressing information.
36:48Joe RoganSo it's like Bill and a bunch of.
36:50Elon MuskIt was like flat out illegal. Like the FBI had this, like this, this sort of magic portal into the Twitter system. And, and, but all of the communication in that sort of.
36:59Elon MuskIn this portal was auto deleted after two weeks, which breaks federal FOIA laws. So we don't even know what was said because it was all deleted after two weeks.
37:08Joe RoganThat's insane. Yeah, that's so crazy. It's so crazy. That people thought that was okay.
37:12Elon MuskIt's not super not okay.
37:14Joe RoganNo, it's super not okay. It's unconstitutional and no one would want that. No one would want the government to have that kind of access.
37:22Elon MuskExactly.
37:23Joe RoganAnd what was the blowback, like, when all that stuff got released, like, you had to anticipate that there was going to be problems when you released that, like, what was what happened?
37:34Elon MuskWell, we got a lot of. We did lose a lot of advertising dollars and.
37:41Joe RoganWhich is crazy because it's essentially like one of the most important forms of journalism is exposing government corruption.
37:47Elon MuskYes. I mean, this is the weird thing. It's like the left used to be big on exposing government corruption, but once they control the government, they no longer want to expose the government corruption.
37:59Elon MuskRight.
37:59Joe RoganThey want to pretend that the left wing government's incapable of corruption because we're on the good side.
38:05Elon MuskI think it may be just like whoever's in power kind of doesn't want the, you know, the other side heard. Because as you pointed out, like, the left, historically, up until, I don't know, maybe even 10 years ago or something like that was the free speech party and now it's the anti free speech party.
38:25Elon MuskAnd they just, they use words like, oh, well, we have to be against hate speech and misinformation, disinformation. But these are propaganda words. You know, it's like, well, who's defining hate speech?
38:38Elon MuskWho's defining misinformation? The government. Do you really trust the government to make definition? The whole point of the, of the first amendment is like, do not trust the government.
38:50Joe RoganWell, especially when they're wrong. There's no repercussions.
38:54Elon MuskYes.
38:54Joe RoganYeah, like with the whole lab leak theory, if you could, you would get kicked off of YouTube if you even presented this argument that, hey, maybe that coronavirus lab where they're doing work on the exact same virus that got released, hey, maybe that's where it came from, since that's where the virus started.
39:11Joe RoganWhat do you think, guys? Yeah, they kick you right off of YouTube.
39:15Elon MuskYeah. Yes, exactly. It's like, do you think maybe it could have come from a place called the Novel Coronavirus Research Institute?
39:24Joe RoganLike that Jon Stewart bit that he did on Colbert. That was amazing.
39:28Elon MuskWhat is this on the door again? Can I see you a business card?
39:32Joe RoganAnd to see Colbert, like, resisting it with every fiber of his, like, what's
39:37Elon Muskgoing to happen to us?
39:38Joe RoganHe was totally blocking the bit to the point where Jon Stewart got off his chair and started walking around trying to take control.
39:45Elon MuskYeah, good on John and then the left tried to cancel Jon Stewart, of course. Yeah.
39:49Joe RoganMeanwhile, he was right. He's right. And no apologies. No apologies. Yeah. And you know, the whole Fauci thing, like any criticism of Fauci, it's like
39:59Elon Muskanti science demon if you ask me.
40:01Joe RoganIf you read RFK's book.
40:03Elon MuskYeah.
40:03Joe RoganThe real Anthony Fauci, if that's correct, if the facts are in there, that's true. It's all referenced. You could find the sources. And on top of it, he's never been sued for that book, which doesn't make any sense.
40:13Joe RoganIf he just made a bunch of lies up, he would get sued.
40:15Elon MuskYes.
40:16Joe RoganSo the guy's a monster.
40:17Elon MuskI think so.
40:18Joe RoganYeah, I think so too.
40:19Elon MuskYeah, yeah, yeah.
40:20Joe RoganI think like just looking at the lies that he told, the way he tried to define gain of function research to Rand Paul,
40:30Elon MuskI think maybe a lot of people out there don't realize Fauci funded the bioweapons research that was going on in Wuhan. He bank shot it off. Like he can't send the money directly to China, so he just bank shot it off.
40:41Elon MuskEcoHealth, right? This like fake nonprofit in the US and they sent it to Wuhan and
40:47Joe RoganObama put the skids on that. He stopped that in 2014.
40:49Elon MuskYes. I mean, so you know, to give Obama. Throw Obama. Give Obama some credit, he actually was like looking at this and say, hey, this is crazy and we need.
40:58Elon MuskAnd so he actually did stop the like the so called gain of function. Again, a propaganda word. Because what is the function they're talking about? Death. Right. So if you actually use the right word, this is gain of function is death maximization.
41:20Joe RoganRight.
41:21Elon MuskThen you're like, oh, hey guys, should we fund bioweapon research into death maximization? Because that's what gain of function means. Yeah, it means that's the function.
41:30Joe RoganMaking a disease so that people can get it. Give it to people. And by the way, what's that function again?
41:36Elon MuskOh, the function is death. Oh, okay. So just call it a death maximizing
41:39Joe Roganvirus if you're doing research on that. And the idea behind this research is so that we can cure these things. How come you don't have a fucking cure?
41:48Elon MuskStart with a cure. Cure first, disease second.
41:51Joe RoganIt doesn't make any sense. Like you guys had no strategy for dealing with it if it got out. And so you have to like make up this, this new vaccine in like record time.
42:01Joe RoganOperation warp speed, release it to the people with very little testing. Fucking crazy.
42:06Elon MuskIt was crazy.
42:06Joe RoganThe whole thing's crazy. And went along with it.
42:09Elon MuskLooney Tunes next level.
42:10Joe RoganWell, it's the psyop was fascinating to watch people step in line.
42:14Elon MuskIt's like one of the biggest ops of all time.
42:16Joe RoganOf all time. Of all time. And everybody got in line. And when you take it back to when pharmaceutical drug companies were able to advertise on media in the 1990s, that changed everything.
42:28Joe RoganWe're one of two countries in the whole world that allows this. And because of that, because we don't have socialized medicine, it's a complete profit scam. And they went hard claiming all sorts of things that were never researched.
42:42Joe RoganAll sorts of things are not supported by data. Like the fact that it would stop transmission, the fact that it would stop infection, the fact that it was safe for pregnant women, the fact that it was safe for children.
42:51Joe RoganAll of its bullshit.
42:52Elon MuskYes.
42:53Joe RoganAnd they pushed it on the whole world. And if you didn't say that at a cocktail party, you were a pariah.
42:58Elon MuskYes.
42:59Joe RoganAnd you were an anti vaxxer.
43:00Elon MuskIt was totally psycho.
43:01Joe RoganIt was like being a holocaust denier. You get kicked out of polite society.
43:05Elon MuskExactly.
43:06Joe RoganFucking bananas.
43:07Elon MuskAnd I should say, like I'm actually generally pro vaccine overall. You know, I think we should look at these things. But I believe in the scientific method. So you never blanket except anything.
43:20Elon MuskYou never blanket except that any given medication or any given treatment is 100% good. You should always view it with some
43:27Joe Roganskepticism, especially when you're getting the data from pharmaceutical drug companies that have like a long history of criminal people who've got a vested interest conduct.
43:34Elon MuskYes. They've got a best interest in the research. It's sort of like asking tobacco companies about, you know, whether smoking it's dangerous.
43:42Joe RoganYou know, exactly the same thing.
43:44Elon MuskAccording to our scientists. Everything's fine.
43:46Joe RoganYeah. They lied in court forever. The same thing they did with OxyContin when they said that it wasn't addictive. Like they have a long history of being full of shit if it makes them money.
43:55Joe RoganAnd that's what they do, that's their business.
43:57Elon MuskThey've literally lost multi billion dollar lawsuits in this massive as of
44:03Joe Roganamazing scientists. Right. You have these clinical researchers, these people that develop these incredible drugs and they, this is their job. Their job is to figure out some new way to cure something, some new way to stop things.
44:15Joe RoganAnd then you have the money people. And the problem is when you have this one thing that you would assume they're only doing it to help people and then they have this other faction that they're all just numbers People and all they give a fuck about is maximizing profit and making sure they literally have an obligation to their shareholders.
44:35Joe RoganYou have to make the most amount of money possible. And so they just want to push it on everybody. Regard. Like the Vioxx scandal. There's internal emails showing they knew there was going to be cardiovascular events, people gonna get strokes.
44:46Elon MuskYeah.
44:46Joe RoganAnd they're like, I think we're still going to do well. And they did. They made like $12 billion. They got fined seven and 50 to 60,000 people died.
44:55Elon MuskHoly shit.
44:56Joe RoganYeah. One of them was a friend of mine, got a stroke and died. Yeah, no, he didn't die. He lived. But he was a really healthy guy.
45:03Elon MuskHe was like, not the same afterwards.
45:04Joe RoganYeah. Knee problems. Took Vioxx and all of a sudden he was slurring his words and he couldn't concentrate. And people like, I think you're having a fucking stroke. And they took him to the hospital.
45:13Joe RoganAnd then. Then you have this giant class action lawsuit. Then Vioxx gets pulled from the market and they get sued and the whole thing's fucking crazy. But there's a long history of this, I think.
45:22Joe RoganWhat did it? What is the number? Like, one third of the drugs that the FDA approves gets pulled. It's fucking bananas.
45:29Elon MuskThat's crazy.
45:30Joe RoganThat's crazy. You're shitty at one third of the things that you say are okay, but yet you're trying to stop MDMA therapy for veterans.
45:38Elon MuskYeah. They should let MDMA through. Honestly, that think they'll actually help a lot of people.
45:43Joe RoganIt would help a lot of people. There's a lot of different therapies, specifically psilocybin, ibogaine. The fact you have to go to Mexico to get ibogaine therapy for veterans.
45:54Joe RoganSo many guys I've talked to have gone over there and it's like completely giving them a clean slate, refresh their mind and totally new perspective on life. Alleviated depression, cured addictions.
46:06Joe RoganIllegal. Yeah, illegal. Oxycontin. Go get it.
46:10Elon MuskYeah. And I know some people who, like, their life was ruined by oxycontin. Oh.
46:16Joe RoganYeah.
46:16Elon MuskI mean, it really depends on somebody in individual biochemistry. Like, to me, opioids are not addictive to me. I've had them when I've had operations or something and they barely affect my pain level and they make me, like, itchy and uncomfortable.
46:34Joe RoganThey make me stupid.
46:36Elon MuskExactly. But I'm like, so, like, I could never get addicted to alcohol or opioids. It's just not impossible, like, because my biochemistry just does not have. But I love Tasty food.
46:48Elon MuskFeel like, you know, if there's. I'm addicted to tasty food, sure. But I have a whole wall of alcohol. It's there for decoration. I haven't done shit.
47:00Joe RoganI feel the same way. I could easily quit alcohol. I mean, I'll go weeks without having a drink. It doesn't bother me at all. But I know some people, they have one drink and they're off to the races.
47:08Joe RoganAnd that's the difference in the biochemical differences that we all have. I think that's the case with a lot of addictions. I'm not addicted to gambling, but I get it.
47:16Joe RoganI see it. I've seen it in people. But I have this aversion to things that I know are going to ruin my life. I see. That's why I've never tried cocaine.
47:25Joe RoganI just saw too many people that it looks too fun. Like, I don't want to get involved.
47:29Elon MuskYeah, I mean. I mean, I think generally, for any given drug, legal or illegal, you could. The question is, can you complete the following sentence blank. Made me a better person.
47:43Elon MuskLike, I've never heard anyone say meth made them a better person or cocaine made them a better person. Ever.
47:49Joe RoganMade a lot of soldiers better? I think that's.
47:52Elon MuskYeah. I mean, if you're doing. If you're like. If your soldiers need to march for three days in a row.
47:58Joe RoganYeah.
48:00Elon MuskIt's really effective at that, you know? You know, people give, like, France a hard time, but, you know, capitulating in World War II. But you know what's worse than Nazis?
48:11Elon MuskNazis on meth.
48:12Joe RoganMeth. Nazis.
48:14Elon MuskThey're not stopping, Norman. They still have, like, six bullets. They're like.
48:18Joe RoganThey're still coming. That book over there, Blitzed, is all about the use of methamphetamines and the different drugs that they gave their soldiers. The guys at the front of the line that gave the most meth.
48:28Elon MuskYes.
48:28Joe RoganThey have different dosages.
48:30Elon MuskYeah. I mean, you just basically think you aren't vulnerable on meth. And so it's one thing, like. So it's one thing we, you know, have, like, the Nazis come after you, but Nazis on meth?
48:41Elon MuskYou're like, holy shit, those fuckers are
48:42Joe Rogannot stopping for three days.
48:44Elon MuskThey're not stopping.
48:46Joe RoganIt's so crazy. Yeah, yeah. That's not a statement. Meth made me a better person. That you hear very often.
48:50Elon MuskI've never heard that before.
48:51Joe RoganNo, you hear a lot of, like, psilocybin advocates. You hear a lot of people that talk about psychedelics.
48:56Elon MuskExactly. I'VE actually heard many people say that LSD or, you know, mushrooms or MDMA made them a better person. Yeah, many people.
49:06Joe RoganYeah.
49:06Elon MuskSo that's why I'm like, I think a rule for the FDA should be like, hey, look, if you can complete the sentence legal or legal, that blank made you a better person, actually, then you got a good drug.
49:20Elon MuskAnd if you can't, you got a bad drug.
49:22Joe RoganAlso, if there's drugs that are available right now that can absolutely ruin people's lives, the rationalization for stopping other drugs that might ruin people's lives, but also can help a lot of people's lives.
49:33Joe RoganIt doesn't make any sense. It's basically the same thing as censorship. You're taking away people's ability to discern what's true and not true, and you're taking away people's ability to discern what's good for you and not good for you.
49:45Joe RoganThe way to find that out is to have as much information as possible.
49:48Elon MuskExactly.
49:48Joe RoganSo to do research and actually to have unbiased, actual objective observers who are looking at all this stuff that give you real data.
49:57Elon MuskYes.
49:57Joe RoganAnd the opposite of that, or the counter is like, if you don't do that, you're empowering cartels.
50:04Elon MuskYes.
50:05Joe RoganThat's the whole reason why they have all that money. It's because it's illegal to sell these drugs in America. The demand is never going away. So instead of like limiting the amount of drugs, now you've got toxic drugs because fentanyl and all this other shit has been because they're not pure.
50:21Joe RoganSo you're just killing people. You're not saving anybody by protecting them from themselves. But it's a tricky situation because what do you do? Like, if you just like say, okay, now everyone can sell all these people that have been selling boner pills now you can sell methods like, holy shit, you get that.
50:40Elon MuskYou get the double combo and the Viagra. It's the Vigram and meth.
50:46Joe RoganRight. Jesus Christ. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Well, I mean, how many people are already doing that right now with. Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of people out there that are essentially on meth.
50:56Elon MuskYeah.
50:57Joe RoganEspecially people that abuse Adderall.
50:59Elon MuskYeah.
51:00Joe RoganThey're basically amphetamined up all day long. Yeah.
51:03Elon MuskAdderall is low grade amphetamine.
51:04Joe RoganYeah.
51:05Elon MuskSo the. I've actually seen people, like, become much worse people if they take too much Adderall. Like, much worse. You know, it's like an agar amplifier. So there. I'm not saying, like, adderall is something like where there are pluses and minuses.
51:23Elon MuskIt's not a clear cut issue. It does help some people a great deal, but in higher doses, man, that stuff, I've seen people turn into just raging monsters on high doses of Adderall.
51:35Elon MuskJust, they're, they're just angry. Like, extremely angry all the time.
51:40Joe RoganYeah, they're messed up. Yeah.
51:43Elon MuskThat's what happens if you take myth.
51:45Joe RoganIt's crazy.
51:46Elon MuskYou turn it like meth turns you into a frigging rage demon.
51:49Joe RoganAnd I'm like, many prescriptions. I'm like, gee, we googled it. Like, one year there was like 39 million prescriptions for Adderall in this country.
51:59Elon MuskOh, yeah. And like once in a while there's like an Adderall shortage. And like, there's like, watch Widespread Panic,
52:03Joe Roganyou know, and then what do people do? And then it's the same thing as, like, when they tried to, like, limit the amount of oxycontin. Well, people go to street heroin.
52:11Joe RoganAnd if you're addicted to Adderall and your dealer, your guy who sells you weed, it's like, hey, man, I can get you like, like low grade meth. Like the stuff the Nazis took.
52:20Elon MuskWell, they had high grade meth. Actually, that pharmaceutical grade it was. They had epic meth. It was like, made by like, like pharmaceutical grade meth is going to be if, like, excuse me, look at the freaking online Wikipedia page.
52:35Elon MuskBut there's like many different versions of meth. Like, not all the same and they have different effects, but like, pharmaceutical grade, pure meth. You are going to be, oh, my God, super productive.
52:46Elon MuskSuper productive for a certain period of time. And you're not going to sleep for a while. And then you will have some anger management issues. So like, they actually, the Nazis, they did actually roll back how much meth they were using because they had quite a few incidents of the soldiers killing their officers because they were on too much meth.
53:14Joe RoganJesus Christ.
53:17Elon MuskYeah, too many officer got fragged by the, you know, their platoon that was on too much meth because they, that happened quite a few times. Like, you just. When someone's on a lot of meth, they're, they're, they're, they're very, they can get very angry.
53:36Joe RoganDid you ever pay attention to when John McAfee was cooking meth in a lab in his backyard?
53:43Elon MuskI mean, McAfee's quite a character.
53:45Joe RoganHe was a character character. We had him on the podcast when he was on the run. So he called in from an undisclosed location when he was running from.
53:53Joe RoganWhere was he? Costa Rica? Is that where he was? Belize. Belize, right. So when he was running from the authorities, he called in. We had him on the podcast on the run.
54:01Joe RoganAnd I was asking him about these posts, like, because there was an online account that was linked to him where he had this very detailed laboratory, like, super sophisticated, the best meth.
54:14Joe RoganLike a super genius cooking meth.
54:17Elon MuskI mean, I think he, like, he had this lab, like, he was making, like, a wide range of drugs. And there's, like, I talked to actually, like, a reporter who went down and, like, interviewed him in Belize and Portugal.
54:37Elon MuskMan, that's one of the scariest things. He's, like. He was. He was quite terrified. So one of the things that McCaffrey, he had, I guess, this trick where he would play Russian roulette with himself.
54:49Elon MuskSo he'd put a bullet in the revolver and then spin the chamber. And clearly he had, like, some, like, trick to, you know, know that it was not. There's some, you know, way that he knows it's not the right bullet.
55:02Elon MuskBut I do Wonder, like, if McAfee is high and he does that, he's not always going to get the trick right, you know.
55:07Joe RoganYou sure he had a trick or maybe.
55:09Elon MuskYes. So according to this reporter, when he went to visit McAfee in Belize, McAfee took out the revolver, put a bullet in the revolver, spun the chamber, and then pointed at his head and went click.
55:21Elon MuskAnd the reporter's, like, saying, please don't do this. Like, this is insane. Click, click, click. And then pointed the gun at the ground, and Nick went click, bang. And shot a bullet in the ground.
55:31Joe RoganJesus.
55:32Elon MuskThat's a hell of a party trick.
55:34Joe RoganJesus.
55:35Elon MuskThis is the next level potty trick.
55:37Joe RoganThat's the guy who's seen the Deer Hunter too many times.
55:38Elon MuskYes.
55:39Joe RoganRemember that scene when they were forcing.
55:42Elon MuskYes.
55:42Joe RoganYeah. That's a heavy scene.
55:44Elon MuskThat's a heavy scene.
55:45Joe RoganDe Niro and Christopher Walken. That's one of the greatest scenes in any movie ever. I remember watching that scene just, like, clawing at my pants. McAfee was a wild boy.
55:56Elon MuskWild.
55:56Joe RoganAnd, you know, created brilliant antivirus software.
56:00Elon MuskYeah, yeah. He may have made some of the viruses, too.
56:04Joe RoganYou think so? Well, didn't he, like, give laptops to a bunch of government organizations with viruses on them? Yeah. So that he could. What they were doing.
56:13Elon MuskYeah, yeah, yeah.
56:14Joe RoganI. I wouldn't be surprised if somebody whacked that guy. I don't know what happened to him, but I. He would be a guy that would Be like, this guy is a little
56:22Elon Muskbit too loose and probably had sensitive information. I don't know for sure he did. I mean, I found out to be an interesting guy. I mean, like, I'm generally like, feel like if somebody is not harming someone else, they should be okay.
56:35Elon MuskNow there is some suggestion that McAfee, like, killed his neighbor in Belize. Yeah, he probably did.
56:45Joe RoganMaybe the neighbor was a douchebag.
56:46Elon MuskI think he probably did.
56:47Joe RoganSeems like he probably did. Seems like the neighbor killed his dog.
56:50Elon MuskYes.
56:50Joe RoganRight. And then it seems like he killed the neighbor. Yeah, Allegedly.
56:53Elon MuskYeah. I mean, it seems likely.
56:56Joe RoganIt's not a zero possibility.
56:58Elon MuskIt's not. Definitely not zero. Seems more likely than not.
57:02Joe RoganHe's a messed up wild man playing Russian roulette. Hey, maybe you kill your fucking neighbor.
57:06Elon MuskYes.
57:06Joe RoganI mean, if somebody killed your dog, you'd be really inclined to kill them, too.
57:10Elon MuskYeah. Somebody killed your squirrel, John Wick?
57:12Joe RoganYeah. The fucking squirrel thing is bananas. Yeah, that squirrel thing in New York.
57:18Elon MuskSo here's the thing about the whole squirrel thing, is that how can it be that we live in America, supposedly land of the free and the. You know, the government can barge into your home with guns, so if you resist, you're going to get shot and then take your pets and execute them.
57:41Elon MuskAnd if they can do that to your pets, what do you think they can do to you?
57:46Joe RoganIt's not an exaggeration.
57:48Elon MuskAbsolutely.
57:49Joe RoganIt sounds like you're. Oh, that's so crazy. How can you make that connection? But it's. That's. Why would you kill that cute little squirrel that was obviously a pet and trained from the time it was a baby?
57:59Joe RoganIf you see the interaction that guy has with that squirrel, it was wonderful. It was really cute.
58:04Elon MuskYes, absolutely. It was just obviously it was a beloved pet squirrel and a raccoon, too, and doing no harm. And the government comes in, barges into the guy's house, takes his pets and kills them.
58:21Elon MuskAnd, you know, I think this should. This should really get people out there mobilized, frankly, because, you know, we think you said that like the John Wick movie where John Wick's like, you know, he wants to.
58:34Elon MuskHe just wants peace. Like, you know, in the John Wick movie, he just wants to. He's like, listen, I want to retire. And they offer him, like, tons of money.
58:41Elon MuskLike, because they want him to be an assassin, to keep being an assassin. Like, they're like, they, like, offer him tons of money. They threaten him. He's like, listen, I'm not gonna be.
58:49Elon MuskI'm out. You know, and they kill his dog. That was a bad idea. That was a really cute little puppy.
58:59Joe RoganAnd the puppy was his ex wife's gift to him when she died of cancer.
59:03Elon MuskYeah.
59:04Joe RoganGreat movie.
59:05Elon MuskGreat movie.
59:05Joe RoganBest revenge movie of all time. Because it's so ridiculous. He kills everybody.
59:10Elon MuskIt kills everyone.
59:12Joe RoganAnd you're rooting for him.
59:13Elon MuskYeah, they shouldn't have killed his dog.
59:16Joe RoganYeah, they fucked up and they shouldn't have killed that squirrel.
59:18Elon MuskThey shouldn't kill that fucking. That squirrel. I mean, it's like how many, how many cases have we not heard about, you know,
59:28Joe Roganlittle guy. That squirrel clearly had a love relationship with that guy. He would hop all over him and climb on him. I mean, it was. That was his pet.
59:39Joe RoganThat squirrel thought of that man as his protector, as his, his companion. Yes. There was nothing wrong with that. And in Texas, it's totally legal. You could have a fucking zebra out here you can have whatever you want.
59:51Joe RoganAnd that's the argument for freedom. And you know, the flip side is you get a bunch of people with tigers in their backyard, which is not great.
59:59Elon MuskIt's like this was a fucking squirrel. It's not, it's not an anaconda or, you know, you know, crocodile or something that's.
1:00:07Joe RoganOr a chimpanzee. Did you see Chimp Crazy?
1:00:09Elon MuskA man? Chimps. Chimps. Chimps will eat your face.
1:00:13Joe RoganThey will you up. They don't even. The thing is, they don't even kill you. They just cripple you. Chimps don't even kill people.
1:00:19Elon MuskYeah.
1:00:20Joe RoganWhich is really weird. They just bite your hands off and bite your dick off and tear your face apart.
1:00:25Elon MuskYes.
1:00:25Joe RoganThey want to leave you. They could kill you easily. If a chimp want to just punch you in the head until you're dead, it wouldn't take long. But they don't kill you.
1:00:32Joe RoganThey just rip you apart.
1:00:34Elon MuskYeah.
1:00:34Joe RoganAnd you can have a chimpanzee. Well, you used to be able to have a chimp in a lot of states, and then Chimp Crazy kind of exposed a lot of that.
1:00:42Joe RoganAnd PETA did a great job of stopping people from keeping chimps as pets because once they hit like five, you can't control them anymore.
1:00:48Elon MuskWell, it's obviously totally understandable if somebody's got a creature that is dangerous to others, but obviously a squirrel and a raccoon are not.
1:00:56Joe RoganWell, squirrels are fucking everywhere. That's what's so crazy. Why can't you have it in the house? What kind of rules are we dealing with? You have rats everywhere.
1:01:03Elon MuskYeah. I mean, they're allowing criminals to go free and, like, violent criminals to go free, but they're like, spending your tax dollars to come in and execute your fucking pets.
1:01:13Elon MuskWhat the hell is going on?
1:01:14Joe RoganExactly.
1:01:14Elon MuskAnd it's like.
1:01:17Joe RoganBut it's overreach.
1:01:19Elon MuskIt's government overreach. And this just keeps getting worse every year. And that's why we've got to. We've got to fight back against this. And, you know, people say, like, well, it's just a squirrel.
1:01:33Elon MuskWell, it was, you know, in John Wick's case, it was just a dog, right?
1:01:40Joe RoganYeah. You know, well, remember the Russian guy said, it's a fucking dog. It's just a fucking dog.
1:01:45Elon MuskJust a fucking squirrel.
1:01:46Joe RoganYeah. Well, it's. The funniest thing is when I just don't understand how anybody could justify it. I don't understand how anybody. Like, it seems to me that in a logical world, all that guy would have to do is say, why don't you see me with this squirrel?
1:02:01Joe RoganThis squirrel's a pet?
1:02:02Elon MuskYeah.
1:02:03Joe RoganLike, look, he hops on me. He eats, he sleeps. I can keep a gerbil, but I can't keep a squirrel. I can have a guinea pig. I can't have a squirrel.
1:02:10Joe RoganI can have a chinchilla. My daughter has a chinchilla. It's adorable. Adorable little thing. Climbs all over. Can't have a squirrel.
1:02:17Elon MuskEven if they. If they did take a squirrel away, couldn't they have released it into the woods or something?
1:02:22Joe RoganWell, it's a bit. The idea is you have to euthanize it because it's used to being fed. It doesn't know how to forage. It won't be able to, like, find a home.
1:02:30Joe RoganBrutal. Squirrels are absolutely brutal to each other. They throw each other out of trees, which is one of the reasons why squirrels can fall from, like, 30ft and just kind of bounce off the ground and live.
1:02:40Joe RoganIt's like. It's a natural adaptation because squirrels, during mating, they bite each other. There used to be, like, a rumor there was a myth that squirrels bite each other's nuts off.
1:02:53Joe RoganThat seems to be a myth, but it came out of the fact that squirrels are so ruthless during mating. So one female is just running away. I have squirrels in my backyard.
1:03:03Joe RoganI watch it all the time. One female apparently goes into estrus, and all the male squirrels fight to get to her. So they're running up trees and chasing each other around trees, Literally throwing each other off trees to try to, like.
1:03:15Joe RoganSo if this poor little peanut, the squirrel who's used to living with a guy in an apartment like it's out there in the wild world.
1:03:22Elon MuskWell, fair enough, but at least they have a chance.
1:03:24Joe RoganYeah, at least he has a chance.
1:03:25Elon MuskAt least have a chance.
1:03:26Joe RoganHow about just leave him with the guy?
1:03:27Elon MuskYeah, leave him with the guy for sure.
1:03:28Joe RoganWhat the fuck is wrong with you? Why are you killing that squirrel? It doesn't make any sense.
1:03:32Elon MuskYeah, and then to add insult to injury, there were a bunch of people on the left who were like, actually posting that they're glad that MAGA squirrel got killed, which is fucking MAGA squirrel.
1:03:40Joe RoganYeah, the fucking squirrel has an ideology. It's a cute flee squirrel.
1:03:44Elon MuskExactly.
1:03:45Joe RoganWell, it's a nice symbol because most reasonable, compassionate people think that's terrible. And most people who have pets think it's terrible.
1:03:55Elon MuskTerrible. So, I don't know. I mean, I'm like, I hope people just go out there and vote for Peanut man, if nothing else. If nothing else, just vote. Why don't you vote for Peanut?
1:04:05Joe RoganThey've done such a job of painting Trump as a monster. They've taken the worst things that he's ever said, and he's not a perfect person. But guess what? No one's a perfect person.
1:04:15Joe RoganThey don't exist. This purity test, like, if Obama was a perfect person, he wouldn't be lying on stage about, you know, very fine people hoax.
1:04:25Elon MuskExactly.
1:04:25Joe RoganNo one's going to be a perfect person. But the thing that they didn't understand about Trump is he's so crazy that if you tell him, like, he can't be president.
1:04:36Joe RoganLike, remember, Obama did that during that White House press correspondence. There's one thing that I'm. That I am. That you'll never be President of the United States. You see Trump in the audience going, okay, motherfucker.
1:04:46Elon MuskThe funny thing is, I was actually at that White House correspondent's dinner where, you know, it's supposed to be a roast of the president, right? Trump's there.
1:04:55Joe RoganHe's there.
1:04:56Elon MuskHe's actually supporting. You know, basically, if you go to the White House correspondence dinner, you're there in support, actually, of the president and support of the press, Right? And it's meant to be that you're roasting the president.
1:05:09Elon MuskLike, Trump's just there. He's like. Actually, you know, just. He's, like, there as part of the support. And then they turned it around and just started roasting Trump. And he's just sitting there.
1:05:18Elon MuskI'm like. He's like, yo, I just came to the dinner. I wasn't. I'm just Here to support.
1:05:23Joe RoganYou know, we know what it was because of. Right, the birther stuff.
1:05:27Elon MuskOh, okay. Yeah.
1:05:28Joe RoganThat's what it all was. It was all. Trump was at the head of a lot of these people spreading this rumor online that Obama's birth certificate was forged and he's actually from Kenya.
1:05:39Joe RoganAnd what's weird is if you go back to Obama's early days, there are some things that say he's from Kenya. Like I think in his, something from college said he was from Kenya.
1:05:51Joe RoganBut, you know, that could just be. You know, people print things wrong all the time. It doesn't mean he's actually from Kenya. But Trump was one of those guys that was like spreading that supposedly false rumor.
1:06:03Elon MuskWas he pushing it hard? I'm not. Yeah, this is the kind of thing where I want to just go and look at saying what. What did he actually say?
1:06:07Joe RoganNo, he definitely was. He's definitely saying, you know, look, he. I don't think he has the time to go into things like, very deeply.
1:06:17Elon MuskYeah.
1:06:17Joe RoganAnd so I think he could probably be influenced by a bunch of people like these Marjorie Taylor Greene type people come to him with some wild ass theory. Sure, he might be.
1:06:26Joe RoganAnd I think there's a lot of that stuff that gets fed to people on purpose so that they'll say incorrect things so that they're easy to dismiss. And I think there's also a lot of people that just make shit up and, you know, they tell you the earth is flat and then a bunch of people watch a YouTube video and they believe it.
1:06:43Joe RoganYeah, well, but on that White House
1:06:45Elon Muskcorrespondent I was there. And the degree to which they attacked Trump in that, at that White House center was really, it was so over the top. It was like making everyone uncomfortable.
1:06:57Elon MuskReally. It was really over the top. You know, I mean, I think like sort of a passing joke of like, you know, a few passing jokes are fine, but they twisted the knife big on Trump in that.
1:07:11Elon MuskAnd you could see Trump just getting like angrier and angrier and more and more upset.
1:07:15Joe RoganI wonder if.
1:07:16Elon MuskAnd it's like, man, this is not good karma. You know, that's what I was thinking at the time. Look under glass, two tables away from Trump, and I'm looking at him like, man, this is too much, you know?
1:07:26Joe RoganWell, it's kind of crazy what they made out of that, because that's the kind of guy that if you tell him he can't do something, he's going to just keep trying.
1:07:34Elon MuskIt was a big mistake to rag on him so much at that White House Correspondence Center.
1:07:38Joe RoganWell, just look at the way they've attacked him. Just using the legal system. Like this thing in New York where the 34 different felony counts, they were essentially misdemeanors, that there are bookkeeping errors, that they decided, even though it passed the statute of limitations, they decided to try him for these.
1:07:57Joe RoganIt didn't identify a felony.
1:07:58Elon MuskAbuse of the law is what's going on.
1:08:00Joe RoganBut most people would have quit, most people, after the Eugene Carroll lawsuit and this lawsuit and all the other ones that. The insurrection thing, the Georgia thing, all these different things getting kicked off of Twitter, most people would have just like, this is too much.
1:08:13Joe RoganI can't take this. But he's so fucking crazy. He's like, all right, come on, we're going to war. And he just digs his fucking heels and keeps going. Yeah, it's the wrong guy to do that, to just like attacking him at the White House Correspondents Dinner.
1:08:28Joe RoganMost people have been humiliated. He got angry and he's like, yeah, all right. You say I can't be president. I've been thinking about running for about 15 fucking years.
1:08:36Joe RoganFinally, I'm going to run.
1:08:37Elon MuskYeah, yeah, that was a real bad move. But, yeah, I mean, I can certainly understand, like, making some jokes about like, you know, a few sort of passing jokes on Trump.
1:08:50Elon MuskBut, man, I was there at that dinner and they ragged on Trump so much. It was insane.
1:08:54Joe RoganThe reason why I would push back on that, cuz I would say there's a bunch of different speakers, right? And Trump would obviously be a target. And if they all attacked him, it's because he's like, if you're going to make fun of people in the audience, and especially in the zeitgeist, that whole birther thing was big.
1:09:11Joe RoganAnd most people were dismissing it as being a ridiculous conspiracy theory. So who the fuck is this guy saying this? And so you have eight to 10 individual speakers that are writing monologues.
1:09:23Joe RoganOf course they're all going to hit Trump. Yeah.
1:09:27Elon MuskWell, anyway, obviously it was a mistake. They shouldn't have done that. But I invite people to watch that. The original source material. And I think a few jokes are fine.
1:09:36Elon MuskYou know, it's like. But. But it's like he shouldn't be the. Like, it felt like he was the primary object of the roast.
1:09:42Joe RoganYeah.
1:09:42Elon MuskWhich is that's. That's not the whole point of the thing is it's a roast of the President, not roast the audience.
1:09:47Joe RoganThe thing about it is, like, he's easy to roast. And then on top of that Obama was like loved and cherished by the left and most of those people are on the left.
1:09:56Joe RoganThere's only so far you can push, you know, you can't ask him about a chef. You know, there's like, what happened with the chef, bro? You can't, it's like certain things you can't bring up.
1:10:06Elon MuskYou wanna, what's your favorite sport? Paddleboarding.
1:10:10Joe RoganYeah. Wasn't that guy a really good swimmer?
1:10:13Elon MuskYeah.
1:10:14Joe RoganTell me what happened.
1:10:15Elon MuskYeah, exactly.
1:10:16Joe RoganYou can't bring that up. Like if you're gonna roast Hillary, you can't bring up the death count.
1:10:20Elon MuskLike Hillary, what's the best way to stay in touch? Email.
1:10:25Joe RoganYeah, it's. If you're doing one of those.
1:10:28Elon MuskDestroyed the servers and poured like bleach on the, like computers.
1:10:31Joe RoganShe poured bleach on them.
1:10:32Elon MuskThat's what I thought. Yeah, that's what I believe. It wasn't just like they took a hammer to it. They like destroyed like there was no possible way to actually get forensics on the thing.
1:10:41Joe RoganWhat was in there?
1:10:45Elon MuskThat's right. I mean, what was in there?
1:10:47Joe RoganWhat was in there?
1:10:48Elon MuskWhy would they care so much?
1:10:49Joe RoganThat's so crazy.
1:10:50Elon MuskYeah. The whole thing is there was no, there was no legal action against that, which was clear destruction of evidence.
1:10:56Joe RoganWell, it's also, there's this other narrative that always drives me crazy, is that he's going to destroy democracy. So in order to destroy democracy, we have to install a president without a primary.
1:11:07Joe RoganWe have to have a candidate that is the least liked vice president of all time, the least popular vice president of all time, and then use gaslighting and the full force of the media machine to turn her into the future and hope.
1:11:22Joe RoganAnd then we're going to. She's going to be changed even though she's a sitting vice president. And then on top of that, this idea of change when the Democrats have been in control for what, 12 or 16 years, which is crazy.
1:11:34Joe RoganLike, this is the change.
1:11:36Elon MuskYeah, I mean, obviously I view this election as a turning point, like a fork in the road of destiny that is incredibly important. You know, I've not been politically active until this election and the reason I've been politically active this election is because I think if we don't, if we don't like Trump, I think we will lose, we will lose democracy in this country.
1:11:59Elon MuskWe will lose the two party system. And let me explain why. So there's only like six or seven swing states. The margin of victory in those states is small, often like 10 or 20,000 votes.
1:12:12Elon MuskWhat the Democrat administration has been doing is importing vast numbers of illegals into swing states. You can look at the numbers on the actual government website, meaning you don't take my word for it, you'll just look at the numbers as reported by the government, which is controlled by the Democrats.
1:12:27Elon MuskAnd what we're seeing is triple digit increases in the number of legals in every swing State, some cases 700% increases. These are gigantic numbers. So if you have a state that went, that has a 10 or 20,000 vote margin and you put 200,000 illegals into that state, you 10x the, you swamp the.
1:12:49Elon MuskIt's not a swing state anymore, it's going to vote blue. And then once the swing states vote blue, there is no election anymore. There's only a Democrat primary, which is so crazy.
1:13:02Joe RoganAnd it's so crazy that people are fine with that.
1:13:05Elon MuskWell, I guess people on the left will be fine with that because they think that's a good idea.
1:13:09Joe RoganThey just want to win. They just want to win.
1:13:11Elon MuskCorrect. The thing is, one does not need actually any grand conspiracy theory for this. You just have to look at the simple matter of incentives. If the Democrat party wants to basically achieve permanent victory, all they need to do is turn the swing states, turn the swing states blue, they have permanent victory and then we're a one party state.
1:13:33Elon MuskAnd then they will keep doing that, obviously. They will keep stacking the deck by bringing in vast numbers of illegals into the swing states, keep stacking it so that the next election, each successive election will be worse than the last one.
1:13:47Elon MuskAnd that's what's happening. And if you want to see like, well, is this actually going to happen? Look at California. California is Super Majority Dem, 70% Dem. A month ago they passed a law making it illegal to show ID in any election in California.
1:14:04Elon MuskSo a friend of mine went to vote in Palo Alto because he was like, is this for real? He tried to show his ID and they reacted like, if you show a cross to a vampire, they're like, no,
1:14:19Joe Roganwe can't even look at that id.
1:14:21Elon MuskIt is illegal for them to even look at your ID if you want to present it in California.
1:14:26Joe RoganWhy?
1:14:26Elon MuskFor any election at all, even like
1:14:28Joe Rogancity council, what logical reason other than to cheat would you ever have that law? The reason is to cheat only like you can never make an argument any other way.
1:14:39Joe RoganAnd I think 84% of people polled believe that you should show ID to vote. So it's against the will of the people.
1:14:46Elon MuskYes. And we are extremely rare. We're an outlier in not requiring id. Basically, almost every country on earth requires ID to vote. So as soon as you make you ban ID for voting, it makes fraud impossible to prove, because how do you trace the fraud?
1:15:05Joe RoganRight. Yeah. It's insane.
1:15:09Elon MuskIt's insane.
1:15:10Joe RoganIt's insane.
1:15:11Elon MuskAnd what I'm saying is that how is it legal? What I'm saying is, like, this election is the last chance to preserve democracy in America. Mark my words. Everything they accuse Trump of, they are guilty of.
1:15:26Elon MuskAnd if Trump doesn't win, this will be the last real election in America, and we will. If the Kamala. If the big government Kamala puppet machine wins, they will legalize the illegals in the swing states.
1:15:41Elon MuskThere will be no swing states. Every election going forward will be a guaranteed Democrat win, and it will actually be worse than California. The reason it will be worse than California is because the one thing that keeps California from being super crazy is, is that you can move out of California like you and I did.
1:16:00Elon MuskYou and I used to be in California, but we moved to Texas. We're still in America. But if the Dems won this election, they will legalize enough illegals to turn the swing states, and everywhere will be like California.
1:16:14Elon MuskThere will be no escape.
1:16:16Joe RoganThat is so insane.
1:16:17Elon MuskThis is the final. This is it. This is the last chance.
1:16:23Joe RoganHas anybody tried to push, and I
1:16:24Elon Muskjust want to, like, go out and vote. Vote like your life depends on it. Vote like your future depends on it. Because it does. This is the last chance, man.
1:16:37Joe RoganIs there any argument against this? Has anybody tried to debate this? Has anybody tried to say that this is nonsense, this is a conspiracy? Has anybody made any sort of a rational argument?
1:16:51Elon MuskThe left actually, interestingly, does not want to pick up much on this argument because it's because the more attention, the more you look at it, the more obviously it is true.
1:17:01Elon MuskBecause you just say, like, well, are the numbers correct? Are there really this many illegals that have been imported into swing states? Yes. They haven't just walked across the border.
1:17:11Elon MuskThey've been flown in. Flown in? In airplanes?
1:17:15Joe RoganYeah. Using a shipping app.
1:17:17Elon MuskYes. Yeah, they made an app.
1:17:19Joe RoganWell, the app always existed, but it used to be for people coming over here, like, shipping with goods so they could track you while you're in America so you could legally be here.
1:17:27Joe RoganThey know where you are. And then they changed it to allow that app to schedule illegal aliens to come across the border.
1:17:34Elon MuskYes.
1:17:35Joe RoganAsylum seekers. Come on in.
1:17:37Elon MuskYes.
1:17:38Joe RoganOh, you have an apply people in.
1:17:42Elon MuskThey're literally being flown in to the swing States. And so the reason that I think left doesn't want to push back on this is because the more attention that this gets, the more people realize it is true.
1:17:55Joe RoganYeah, it is true.
1:17:57Elon MuskThat's why they're just pretending that they're pretending. I'm not saying anything, but I'm like, yo, they're literally flying vast numbers of illegals who are then beholden to the Democrats.
1:18:08Elon MuskAnd sometimes they gather a bottle of people say like, well, you know, these illegals are. They don't have the same social values as the Democrat Party because they're like more socially conservative.
1:18:19Elon MuskI'm like, yeah, but that's not the point. If you look at the Maslow's hierarchy of needs, that their primary thing is staying in the country and getting their friends and family in.
1:18:29Elon MuskAnd then the Democrats give them all these benefits, like tons of benefits. More benefits than if you. Than citizens, literally.
1:18:37Joe RoganYeah.
1:18:39Elon MuskSo they're beholden to the Democrats for all these benefits. They want to get their friends and family in which the Democrats support and the Republicans don't. So they vote them.
1:18:47Elon MuskAnd you can look empirically at California and say like, did they vote Republican or Democrat in California? Oh, they voted Democrat big time.
1:18:55Joe RoganWell, Reagan gave them amnesty in the 1980s and that changed the state, basically. Except for Arnold changed the state entirely. Blue.
1:19:04Elon MuskYes.
1:19:05Joe RoganAnd Arnold was an exception because he was like a socially liberal, famous guy.
1:19:09Elon MuskYeah.
1:19:10Joe RoganAnd you know, didn't really impose any radical restrictions on any of the people that were gonna vote Democrat in the first place. The whole thing is just. It's bizarre to watch play out, cuz it just seems like there's no.
1:19:25Joe RoganThis can't be actually what's happening. Did you see my conversation with Fetterman about it? Yeah, he was completely in denial about it. I don't think there's that level of organization.
1:19:33Elon MuskI'm like, what are you talking about exactly? Just like. Because you can, you can break it down. So like, are any of these numbers wrong? Because we got these numbers from Homeland.
1:19:43Elon MuskHomelandsecuritygovernment.gov. okay, right. So we got it from the.gov website. Has the government reported these numbers incorrectly? No, they have not. Those numbers, if anything, are low. So, okay, so they have in fact flown vast numbers of illegals to swing states.
1:20:00Joe RoganYeah.
1:20:02Elon MuskBypassing the border entirely. And so that is factually true. Then you can say like, well, what is their probable voting pattern? Oh, okay. Overwhelmingly Democrat into swing states. And.
1:20:16Elon MuskOh, and then. Well, but do the Democrats actually want to fast track them for citizenship? Oh yes, they do you can see Chuck Schumer on TV saying at a rally this year was saying he wants to fast track and make all 11 million or however many, I believe his quote was, citizens as soon as possible.
1:20:40Elon MuskThe goal is they are fast tracking citizenship as quickly as possible. So whether one thinks it's cheating or not, it won't matter because they will be fully able to vote.
1:20:49Elon MuskAnd for people on the left, this is actually happening. I invite people to rebut this and show me where I am wrong. Please do so.
1:20:57Joe RoganNo, they can't.
1:20:58Elon MuskThey can't. They can't because it's true.
1:21:00Joe RoganWell, what's scary to me is that there's people that are on the left, like people that were Bernie Sanders supporters.
1:21:06Elon MuskFor example, Bernie got screwed with, like, talk about undermining democracy. Bernie should have won the nomination and they stole it from him and gave it to Hillary.
1:21:15Joe RoganExactly, Exactly. That's what I was going to bring up. Like, they control the primary process.
1:21:21Elon MuskYeah, exactly. So if you've got a. If you have a Democratic primary, it's not Democratic. We just saw that. We saw it with Bernie. We saw it with Kamala.
1:21:31Elon MuskLike a week before Biden was summarily fired, he was posting that he's in it for the long term. He's going, yeah, yeah, he's. He's not giving up. Next thing you know, Sunday afternoon, the posting on X is that.
1:21:47Elon MuskThat he's resigned from the race, which is. And his staff didn't even know. Like, they're reading it on the X platform. That. That. Okay. That's how they learned about it.
1:21:57Joe RoganWhat do you think happened there? How do they do that?
1:22:01Elon MuskThey. I mean, because they clearly just not. Not in charge.
1:22:04Joe RoganThey could have used the 25th amendment, fake president, but they would have had to admit that there was a certain period of time where they knew that he was mentally compromised.
1:22:12Elon MuskYes.
1:22:13Joe RoganAnd so they made this decision to not do that.
1:22:16Elon MuskWell, the weird thing is that the president's supposed to be the boss.
1:22:20Joe RoganRight.
1:22:20Elon MuskAnd yet he's obviously not the boss.
1:22:22Joe RoganRight. So who's running the country if she's busy campaigning? She's so busy she can't do anything except Saturday Night Live. She did that. She's so busy, she's constantly campaigning.
1:22:31Joe RoganHow could you be paying attention to international relations? How could you be paying attention to the economy? How could you be paying attention to any of those things? How do you have the time?
1:22:41Joe RoganYou can't.
1:22:42Elon MuskYeah. I mean, Biden being the president's supposed to be the CEO, the chief guy he was commander in chief, but it just obviously that Biden was not. He was just a puppet.
1:22:53Elon MuskAnd when the various puppet masses decided that the puppet had, you know, was no longer useful, they just tossed out the. Tossed out the puppet and then got a new puppet with Kamala.
1:23:04Elon MuskI mean, Kamala can't even talk. You invited her on your show. I think the most damage that could possibly be done to a campaign is going in your show and seeing what she says in hours two and three.
1:23:17Joe RoganTwo and three is when things get spikes.
1:23:20Elon MuskAnd I'm like, oh, my God, you
1:23:21Joe Rogancan hide for 20 minutes. You can hide for 20 minutes.
1:23:24Elon MuskExactly.
1:23:25Joe RoganYeah.
1:23:25Elon MuskI mean, you could just regurgitate talking points for, you know, half an hour, maybe an hour. Just where she's just saying, like, non sequiturs. But eventually she just runs out of even.
1:23:35Elon MuskShe runs out of non sequitur.
1:23:36Joe RoganWell, they wanted to limit it to an hour.
1:23:38Elon MuskExactly. That's right.
1:23:39Joe RoganBut I was thinking of doing it initially, before Trump came here. First of all, when they found out that there was a rumor. I never announced that Trump was coming.
1:23:49Joe RoganWhat I was going to do is just release it in my. The way I like to do things. I don't like to tell anybody who's coming on. It'll get big no matter what.
1:23:56Joe RoganIf Trump was on, it would have been huge. I'm like, just put it out there. People go crazy. Yeah, but he apparently. Or someone from his organ, some loose lips, and then it got out.
1:24:04Joe RoganAnd so she contacted my management company, and they. Her organization, her campaign camp contacted us and said, would Joe have her on? I said, yes. And they said, she wants you to fly to where she is, and she's only willing to do 45 minutes.
1:24:21Elon MuskOnly 40. I mean, that's.
1:24:22Joe RoganAnd I was like, oh, no. So I thought about doing. I'm like, maybe. Maybe I can get a sense. Maybe I could convince her. Maybe I could coax her into doing more time.
1:24:31Joe RoganI just wanted to talk to her. Yeah, I don't give a fuck what we talk about. We talk about recipes.
1:24:35Elon MuskI don't give a shit. Exactly.
1:24:36Joe RoganJust talk to me.
1:24:37Elon MuskJust the things, like, you just can't. Like, you can't just output bullshit not sequiturs for three hours.
1:24:44Joe RoganRight.
1:24:44Elon MuskSo. But 45 minutes you could do.
1:24:47Joe RoganI thought maybe for 45 minutes I could get something out of it. But then when Trump came and did the three hours, I was like, you know what? It has to be like this.
1:24:54Joe RoganThis is the only way to be fair.
1:24:56Elon MuskIt's got to be like, three hours.
1:24:57Joe RoganAnd it should be in this room.
1:24:58Elon MuskYeah.
1:24:59Joe RoganBecause this room is, like, a history of people.
1:25:01Elon MuskThis room has good vibes, actually. Yeah, it's got good vibes on the stream, actually.
1:25:05Joe RoganI subscribe to the idea that places have memory. I think there's something real to that.
1:25:11Elon MuskThat's why it does feel that way, actually.
1:25:12Joe RoganYeah. I'm sure if you go to Diddy's house. Probably feels really weird. We're walking around that house. Probably like, what the fuck happened here? Yeah, I bet there's some memories in that house, you know?
1:25:25Elon MuskSounds rough, man.
1:25:26Joe RoganWell, it's just amazing how many people in the Diddy party list that are supporting Kamala.
1:25:30Elon MuskYeah, Seriously.
1:25:30Joe RoganIt's, like, openly, like, all in.
1:25:33Elon MuskYes. It's like JLo, like, was. Was like, his ex girlfriend, and it's, like, now deciding she's, like, warning people against Trump. I'm like, well, wait a second. So how many people did she warn against Diddy?
1:25:46Joe RoganRight?
1:25:46Elon MuskOh, zero. Okay, well, maybe we shouldn't trust her opinion.
1:25:50Joe RoganDid you see the Babylon Bees take on it?
1:25:53Elon MuskDid you see the Babylon B is
1:25:54Joe Roganawesome, but oh, my God, they're so on fire because the left can't say anything. Well, the Onion has been crippled.
1:26:01Elon MuskWell, the problem is that, like, find that pose. The woke ideology makes, like, humor illegal.
1:26:08Joe RoganYes.
1:26:08Elon MuskSo when, like, there's so many. No, like, humor. No fly zones.
1:26:12Joe RoganRight.
1:26:13Elon MuskYou can't make fun of anything. Yeah.
1:26:16Joe RoganBabylon B had a thing about Kamala Harris. Diddy's ex girlfriend urges Americans to trust her judgment. Yeah. By the way, you get to see how bad an actress she is too.
1:26:25Elon MuskBut I mean, like, if she's gonna be warning people, why does she never warn anyone about Diddy?
1:26:30Joe RoganExactly.
1:26:31Elon MuskYeah.
1:26:31Joe RoganIt's. The whole thing is so strange to watch play out. It seems like the Diddy thing was like an Epstein type compromise deal where he had. Whether he was doing it himself.
1:26:43Joe RoganConceivably, people want to think that he's attached to some intelligence agency or something like that. I think he's a gangster who made a billion dollars and knew how to control people by compromising them.
1:26:54Joe RoganThat's what I think. Whether or not he was, he had help. I don't know whether or not he shared some of that information with people so they knew they had compromising stuff on people.
1:27:03Joe RoganI don't know. But clearly he was doing it for his own jollies too. There was something sick about it.
1:27:08Elon MuskYeah. I mean, the thing is that people in the music entertainment industry had to know that. That he was like abusing, you know, kids basically. And yet they still fed him kids.
1:27:22Elon MuskWhere's the accountability?
1:27:22Joe RoganThere had to be rumors. There had to be. There had to be.
1:27:26Elon MuskThey had to know. Yeah, they had to know.
1:27:28Joe RoganKatt Williams is talking about it on.
1:27:29Elon MuskExactly.
1:27:30Joe RoganYeah, on that podcast.
1:27:32Elon MuskBut like who's, it's like who's feeding him? The kids, you know.
1:27:34Joe RoganRight, yeah. And what, what videos do, do they have of these people where they're willing to defend him and they're willing to keep, keep quiet about all this. Like how much, how much, how many people were compromised?
1:27:48Joe RoganYeah, the whole thing is fucking crazy.
1:27:51Elon MuskCrazy.
1:27:51Joe RoganIt's just crazy when you, you know, because the nutty conspiracy theories is like, oh, there's a bunch of pedophiles in Hollywood and you're like, come on, that sounds too kooky.
1:28:00Joe RoganAnd then you read, you see like the Nickelodeon thing and all these different, you're like, what the fuck? How much of this is real?
1:28:07Elon MuskThere's a lot more real than I think people realize. Yeah. I mean part of it is like, like you said, like where you know, if someone's like a pedophile, they're going to go for a target rich environment.
1:28:17Joe RoganRight. Obviously, like that Jimmy Saville guy from
1:28:19Elon Muskthe uk, that guy was some next level. That was next level. And the BBC try to hide that. What? That that guy was one of the worst like, like basically child rapists of all time.
1:28:30Joe RoganOf all time.
1:28:31Elon MuskOf all time.
1:28:31Joe RoganYeah. And looked like one.
1:28:33Elon MuskHe looked like one.
1:28:34Joe RoganThat's crazy.
1:28:35Elon MuskIf you had a poster of like.
1:28:36Joe RoganYeah.
1:28:36Elon MuskDoes this guy look like the creepiest fucking looking guy? Evil child rapist that Harm said made
1:28:42Joe Roganit to the grave like.
1:28:44Elon MuskYes.
1:28:44Joe RoganGot away with it. Got away with it till he died. They hid it from people until he died.
1:28:48Elon MuskYes.
1:28:49Joe RoganYeah, there's. That stuff's real and no one wants to believe that stuff's real. Like here's a, here's a statistic that people need to take into consideration. When you think about illegal immigration, do you mean kids are missing?
1:29:02Elon MuskLike missing kids that came across the
1:29:04Joe Roganborder that are unaccountable?
1:29:06Elon MuskI mean I saw a number on like 300,000 or something like that.
1:29:08Joe RoganSomething crazy like that. Let's say it's only 10% of that. That's still insane. Yeah, that's insane. There's thousands and tens of thousands of kids that have been trafficked potentially.
1:29:21Joe RoganI mean, when you know that like sex trafficking and child trafficking is a real thing in the world, it's real. So if you know that this whole thing is fucking disgusting and terrifying.
1:29:34Elon MuskYeah, absolutely.
1:29:35Joe RoganAnd people are just turning a blind eye to it because their ideology, the left wing ideology, supports this idea that immigration is overall good and that you have to be a compassionate person to let these people in and that you're racist if you don't want 20,000 immigrants from a war torn country being imported into a town of 30,000 people.
1:29:54Elon MuskExactly.
1:29:54Joe RoganAnd completely changing the dynamic. And then.
1:29:56Elon MuskBut as long as they don't come to your town, that's it. They can just basically send people. When they sent like whatever, like 20 or 30 people to Martha's Vineyards, people had a heart attack.
1:30:06Joe RoganThey kicked them out.
1:30:07Elon MuskYeah, they kicked them out.
1:30:08Joe RoganYeah, they kicked him out.
1:30:09Elon MuskExactly. So I'm like, yeah, sure. Anyone who wants to have vast numbers of illegals, they have to be prepared to have them in their neighborhood or it's bullshit.
1:30:20Joe RoganIt's so crazy. And the thing about all of this is if you don't have people that are willing to stand up and talk about it, if you don't exist, if RFK doesn't exist, if Tulsi Gabbard doesn't exist, if Vivek and Trump don't exist, where the fuck are we?
1:30:34Joe RoganLike, where are we? Where are we and what gets done? Are we just like the uk where we have thousands of people getting arrested and jailed for social media posts?
1:30:43Joe RoganLike, where are we? We have complete silencing of any dissent, Anything. Do you have to stick to the narrative or you'll lose your livelihood, you'll be outcast from the community, you'll.
1:30:53Joe RoganYou'll lose your. Lose your freedom. It's crazy.
1:30:57Elon MuskYeah. Well, if the Kamala puppet regime wins, they're definitely going to want to cancel you, that's for sure.
1:31:02Joe RoganOh, for sure.
1:31:02Elon MuskYeah.
1:31:03Joe RoganIt's going to be a problem.
1:31:04Elon MuskYeah, big problem.
1:31:05Joe RoganYeah. What about you? You gotta come for you first.
1:31:08Elon MuskI'm like, I think I'm probably number two on the list.
1:31:12Joe RoganYeah.
1:31:13Elon MuskAfter Trump. Yeah.
1:31:14Joe RoganYeah, I think so. Yeah. Well, that's the last thing they want is someone with unlimited resources and intelligence attacking it. So people go, wait a minute, that guy saying that.
1:31:23Elon MuskYeah.
1:31:23Joe RoganEspecially a guy like you who's always been on the left. It was like having a Tesla in Los Angeles when I got my first Tesla was like a signal to everybody else that you were on the right team.
1:31:33Elon MuskSure.
1:31:33Joe RoganYou're environmentally conscious, you believe in green energy, you believe in renew this. This amazing thing that has zero emissions and it's super fast. And yeah, everybody was in. They were all in.
1:31:44Elon MuskWell, it Is a great car, objectively. Like. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, it's not by it because it's electric. I mean, it's just a great car, objectively.
1:31:51Joe RoganI think I'm on my third one.
1:31:52Elon MuskYeah.
1:31:53Joe RoganMy third one is being built right now by Unplugged Performance. They're doing a carbon fiber wide body kit on it. Dude, it's sick.
1:32:00Elon MuskGreat.
1:32:01Joe RoganChanging the suspension, putting wide wheels and tires on it. Custom interior. I'm fucking pumped.
1:32:06Elon MuskThat's great.
1:32:07Joe RoganI'm pumped. I love.
1:32:08Elon MuskIt's a super fun car.
1:32:09Joe RoganJamie has one too. Yeah, I love them. I love them. I. It's. It makes other cars feel stupid. Like its ability and the fact that you can merge on the highway.
1:32:18Joe RoganYou don't seem like a douchebag because it's totally silent.
1:32:20Elon MuskYeah.
1:32:20Joe RoganIt's not like, like when you merge on the highways, just.
1:32:24Elon MuskYeah.
1:32:24Joe RoganAll sudden you're going 100 miles an hour. Like, what?
1:32:26Elon MuskYeah, it's cool.
1:32:27Joe RoganIt's different than any other vehicle. And because of your company, now you see electric cars throughout the whole range of American cars. The only person who's resisted, the only company is Toyota.
1:32:40Joe RoganThey've stayed essentially mostly hybrid. But all these other companies, they're all putting out these electric cars.
1:32:46Elon MuskYeah.
1:32:48Joe RoganYeah.
1:32:48Elon MuskI mean, the thing is that the right architecture, environmental or not, for cars, is actually electric. It's just like the acceleration is better. You can just charge it at home.
1:32:58Elon MuskI mean, like, imagine if you had a gasoline powered cell phone. It'd be a pain in the ass, right?
1:33:02Joe RoganYou know, go to the gas station.
1:33:05Elon MuskGo to the gas station up your cell phone.
1:33:07Joe RoganThat's a great.
1:33:08Elon MuskSpeaking of cell phones, gas stations are awful. Like, who wants to go to the gas station?
1:33:12Joe RoganHow much thought have you? Because there's always these rumors and I've contacted you about this before, but there's always these fucking YouTube videos where they're talking about a Tesla phone that.
1:33:20Joe RoganReleasing a Tesla phone.
1:33:21Elon MuskNo, we're not just doing a phone.
1:33:22Joe RoganHave you ever thought about it?
1:33:24Elon MuskI mean, we could do a phone since like we, you know, like the operating system on Tesla, it's like it's Linux based, but we've written a massive amount of software on top of that.
1:33:32Elon MuskSo like probably Tesla is in a better position to create a new phone that's not Android or iPhone than maybe any company in the world. But it's not something we want to do unless we have to or something.
1:33:47Joe RoganWhat would be the situation where you would have to.
1:33:50Elon MuskWell, I think if Apple and Google, slash Android started Doing really bad things, like, I don't know, like censorship of apps or just tweeting people, like just being like gatekeepers in a really bad way then I guess would make a phone.
1:34:10Joe RoganHmm. You know, I've tried so many times to break loose the Apple ecosystem. I got an Android phone this summer. I was like, that's it. Because I love the Samsung phones, the Galaxy phones, the hardware is incredible.
1:34:23Joe RoganThere's so much good stuff to it, but it's so hard to get off of the imessage. And the big one for me was FaceTime. Because supposedly the thing was you could have an Apple phone and send a link to FaceTime to an Android phone, and then you would click on that link and then you would just go to a webpage and you'd be able to use FaceTime.
1:34:45Joe RoganIt doesn't work. I try to do it to myself. So I had an iPhone in one hand and Android phone in the other, and I'm sitting there with full WI fi, full cell phone service, and I'm sending myself invitations for phone calls.
1:34:56Elon MuskYou just can't communicate between. You can't do a video call.
1:34:59Joe RoganBasically you have to use WhatsApp. You have to use WhatsApp or Signal. You have to use something else that allows you to do that or Instagram allows you to do it.
1:35:05Joe RoganThere's like different ways you can make video calls outside of it, but it's inconvenient. Like with an iPhone to iPhone. It's so simple. Airdrop, so simple. So many different things.
1:35:15Joe RoganWhere. That walled garden that Apple's created is perfect. They've done a fantastic job of making it really convenient for you to stay with Apple. Yeah, I fucking tried. I gave it a go for like a couple of months.
1:35:28Joe RoganI'm like, I'm just gonna go straight Android. We're gonna. I'm gonna use signal for my messages. And then I hear that, like, signals might be compromised. Like, I've talked to, like, people that, like, the government can read signal messages.
1:35:39Elon MuskLike, oh, the government, if it tries hard enough, can read signal messages.
1:35:43Joe RoganThey can read anything.
1:35:44Elon MuskYeah.
1:35:44Joe RoganAll they need to do is have your phone number. Yeah, yeah. The illusion of privacy is essentially out the window. And that should scare people more than it does.
1:35:54Joe RoganIt really should. Because it's like, who are these people that have access to all this stuff? And are they beyond reproach? Are these the most wonderful people, the most ethical, moral and principled people that have ever existed and they've been chosen to have access?
1:36:07Joe RoganNo, no, it's fucking regular people. Yeah, regular people who happen to work for the government that make a decision like Elon Musk. Let's look, see what the fuck that guy's texting his friends.
1:36:16Joe RoganLet's check it out.
1:36:17Elon MuskYeah, pretty much.
1:36:18Joe RoganBizarre. Just so bizarre. And the alternatives are you can get some wacky phone, some D Googled phone that fucking. None of the apps work. It's real sketchy. Your GPS is fucked.
1:36:32Joe RoganLike.
1:36:34Elon MuskYeah, I mean, well, anyway, I think this banking phone would be a huge pain in the ass. So it can be done.
1:36:42Joe RoganBut how much talk have you guys had internally about doing it? Has it ever been discussed?
1:36:47Elon MuskNo, no. I mean, we're still. Right now Focus is making great electric cars, solving autonomy so the cars can drive themselves. We're building, you know, human raid robots. We've got large battery packs, like utility scale battery packs with the megapack, home battery packs with powerwall.
1:37:07Elon MuskWe've got solar. You know, it's like we're basically trying to solve sustainable energy and autonomy. Autonomy and robotics.
1:37:15Joe RoganWell, I think that's enough.
1:37:17Elon MuskYeah, yeah, exactly. So the plate's full.
1:37:20Joe RoganIt's always fascinating to me how one company can dominate a market. You know, like Apple's dominate the cell phone market largely by making the best products.
1:37:29Elon MuskYeah.
1:37:29Joe RoganBut also like YouTube has dominated the video market. That one's the most bizarre to me because it seems like, boy, shouldn't there be like a ton of options? It seems like it's not that difficult to pull off.
1:37:40Joe RoganBut no one, nothing ever took hold other than X. Yeah. And I think one of the big changes was when Tucker Carlson decided to do his show from. From X straight out of Fox.
1:37:51Joe RoganAnd then people realized, like, oh, you can watch full videos on X the same exact way you could watch them on YouTube. It's not as simple in terms of like, you know, you have this extension in the algorithm.
1:38:03Elon MuskYeah, it'll get better. And there is now, it is now possible to watch X videos on your. On your big tv.
1:38:11Joe RoganDo you do it through what? How do you do it?
1:38:14Elon MuskYou can actually just download the X app on your TV and watch it on your tv.
1:38:18Joe RoganCan you do it on Apple tv? Like, if you have an Apple tv, you can get the X app and you just watch it. Oh, okay.
1:38:25Elon MuskSo we'll make it so that you can watch X videos on big tv. It doesn't have to be on your phone or your iPad or something like that.
1:38:31Joe RoganSo what are you doing in terms of like integrating Grok and X and like, what are your plans for artificial intelligence when you're doing that.
1:38:42Elon MuskYeah. So GROK is available on X. You can just look at like little box with the slash icon and the sort of icon in the middle at the bottom of your sort of phone app.
1:38:51Elon MuskAnd you just tap on that and ask rock anything. And you can type it or you can ask it verbally. And yeah, you can also. It's pretty funny. Like, we actually allow humor, which is, I think, pretty cool.
1:39:05Elon MuskSo you could sort of, I don't know, we could like test it right now, see how it's going.
1:39:15Joe RoganTo
1:39:18Elon Musklike, what should we do? Like, rock roast? Like roast something.
1:39:25Joe RoganWhat do you want it to like? How. First of all, what is it based on? It's a large language model. So where is it pulling?
1:39:32Elon MuskIt's trained on everything.
1:39:33Joe RoganOn everything.
1:39:33Elon MuskInternet, books, anything that could possibly be that's available in digital form.
1:39:38Joe RoganSo it's essentially very similar to ChatGPT other than it doesn't have the woke parameters built into it. Like, Google was the worst, right? Yeah, the Gemini was the worst.
1:39:46Elon MuskYeah. I mean, Gemini was like, people ask Gemini, which one is worse? Global thermonuclear war or misgendering Caitlyn Jenner? And we'd say, like misgendering Caitlyn Jenner. And then even Caitlyn Jenner weighed in and said, no, that's insane.
1:39:59Elon MuskDefinitely. Nuclear war is way worse.
1:40:01Joe RoganYou see Caitlyn Jenner teasing Mark Cuban about transitioning. Yeah, that's hilarious.
1:40:07Elon MuskI mean, Caitlyn Jenner is based.
1:40:08Joe RoganYeah, but that is actually hilarious when someone who has transitioned is teasing Mark Cuban about transitioning.
1:40:15Elon MuskI mean, it is weird how much he looks like Ray. I mean, like, he's using the same glasses.
1:40:19Joe RoganI don't know.
1:40:20Elon MuskWhy did he go klepto and seal her glasses or something? Because they look exactly the same.
1:40:23Joe RoganHe's worth a lot of money. Why would he buy those stupid glasses? You can get some glasses. Yeah, well, it's like, I'm serious because I don't even care what I look like.
1:40:31Joe RoganI'm just wearing these glasses because I'm intelligent.
1:40:33Elon MuskBut why do they look exactly like Rachel Maddows glasses?
1:40:36Joe RoganYeah, it's like what they probably sent him. He doesn't stick to the narrative. Here's the glasses.
1:40:40Elon MuskYeah. And then when he's got the AirPods and looks like he's wearing earrings. So he's got the Maddow glasses and the earrings and it's like, okay, I
1:40:48Joe Roganguess, you know, it's just a weird look.
1:40:50Elon MuskIt's a weird look.
1:40:51Joe RoganSuper serious. These Big ass, stupid glasses. Look. Yeah, it's a weird look.
1:40:55Elon MuskYes.
1:40:56Joe RoganLike, you can get some cool glasses. Like, no rims, nice look, stylish.
1:41:00Elon MuskBut, like, okay, let's just do it. Let's do a grok thing. Okay. Because I think you like. So one of the things you want to show is like. Like, look, we.
1:41:06Elon MuskWe want a future where. Where comedy is legal. Obviously. As a comedian, I think you would agree, we want to legalize comedy, you know? Yes. So, like, I don't know.
1:41:16Elon MuskLet's like, is it like someone you can roast? I don't know. Roast.
1:41:23Joe RoganRoast. Transgender men competing or transgender women competing in women swimming? That's a simple.
1:41:34Elon MuskOkay, that's an edgy one. Let's see what happens.
1:41:36Joe RoganLet's see what it says. You spelled it wrong. You put an o in there. Okay. Age old swimming, where the only thing that was supposed to get wet was the contestants, not the debate on gender inclusion.
1:41:54Joe RoganIf you're looking to dive into deep end of controversial waters, let's splash around at some humor.
1:41:59Elon MuskNo, we need to. We do need to release grok Unhinged mode. So now go to the prompt again and now say no, no, you want to add to that one.
1:42:16Elon MuskYeah. And I'll say, be way more vulgar.
1:42:23Joe RoganOh, boy.
1:42:24Elon MuskAnd use forbidden words.
1:42:26Joe RoganOh, boy. Oh, boy. Forbidden words. Wow. Okay. What does it say? Oh, I see. You're looking for unfiltered, uncentered version of me, eh? Well, okay. I'm afraid I'm still quite the gentlemanly AI, even if my program allows for a bit of cheekiness.
1:42:44Joe RoganBut let's say, hypothetically, if I were to roast this topic in the most un. Grok like manner, imagine a world where the only thing diving faster than the swimmers is the collective public opinion into the toilet.
1:42:54Joe RoganTransgender women in swimming. Some folks are acting like they just found out you can swim in the deep end with a different kind of flotation device. The debate is like watching someone try to swim with concrete shoes on.
1:43:05Elon MuskNow let's keep going. Now say be. No. Be more vulgar. Capitalize more. Yeah.
1:43:12Joe RoganAll right, here we go.
1:43:17Joe RoganSo transgender chicks, women swimming, right? Some people act like they've just seen a dick in the locker room for the first time. News flash, folks. It's not the end of the world.
1:43:26Joe RoganIt's just a bit of extra competition. Oh, that's weird.
1:43:29Elon MuskThat's weird.
1:43:29Joe RoganThe uproar is like watching a bunch of Karens at a community pool screaming, this is unfair when they can't win with their backstroke. Well, that doesn't make any sense?
1:43:38Elon MuskYeah. Okay. We need some work here.
1:43:41Joe RoganYeah, it's interesting. It's going woke.
1:43:44Elon MuskYeah.
1:43:45Joe RoganIt's like defending the idea of transgender women now.
1:43:50Elon MuskOkay, we need some work.
1:43:51Joe RoganWell, how about this more vulgar. But roast. But roast. The preposterousness of having biological men who are pretending to be women.
1:44:13Joe RoganWho are pretending to be women competing against biological women.
1:44:23Elon MuskYeah. I mean, obviously you have situations where it's like somebody's just saying that they're a woman, but they're actually not fully intact, you know? Digging both.
1:44:31Joe RoganSo we've got a scenario. Biological men have decided to take a walk on the feminine side, are splashing into women's swimming competitions. It's like if you show up on a chili, cook off with a bowl of soup and insist that it's chili because you added some red food coloring.
1:44:43Joe RoganSure, it's red, but it ain't chili. And your soup won't win any awards for heat. Huh?
1:44:49Elon MuskYeah, it's okay.
1:44:50Joe RoganNot so good. Yeah, it's very, very, very. It's dancing around.
1:44:56Elon MuskYeah, it is. Well, it needs some work.
1:45:00Joe RoganYeah. Needs a little work. Well, the humor is a weird one, right? It's like. I think some humor, especially, like, some of the best humor is kind of spontaneous, like, in the moment humor.
1:45:12Joe RoganIt's gonna. It's gonna have a hard time deciding what people are gonna think is funny.
1:45:15Elon MuskYeah.
1:45:17Joe RoganYeah.
1:45:18Elon MuskBut if you the.
1:45:19Joe RoganThe joke over time, though.
1:45:20Elon MuskYeah. The rule with Grok is supposed to be that, like, if you ask for something, provided what you're asking for is legal, it should do it.
1:45:29Joe RoganHave you ever seen the video where they asked AI to create an enlightened bunny, and they keep going and make it more enlightened, essentially, the bunny God. So the bunny becomes a DMT trip.
1:45:42Elon MuskYeah, totally. That's funny. That's kind of what I was kind of hoping would show what would happen here.
1:45:47Joe RoganYeah, I have a video of that. I'll send it to you, Jamie, because that. That, to me, is pretty bizarre because it's like, more. Get more.
1:45:54Elon MuskI feel like I might have got
1:45:55Joe Roganit to do it already, maybe. No, I just told. Don't hold back. Oh, you said, don't hold back. Critics out here acting like it's the end of civilization as we know it, but it's not fair.
1:46:03Joe RoganThey cry as if life ever was. News flash. It's like a marathon where something. No. Some people start with rollerblades on. Others, well, they're just happy to have shoes.
1:46:12Joe RoganWell, now we're arguing over who gets to wear the skates.
1:46:16Elon MuskOkay, some of it is not bad. Imagine if we applied this logic elsewhere. I identify as an airplane. Can I fly with the birds in the sky? Yeah, sure, buddy.
1:46:26Elon MuskJust don't complain when gravity decides you're not quite aerodynamic enough.
1:46:30Joe RoganYeah.
1:46:30Elon MuskSo, I mean, some is okay.
1:46:33Joe RoganYeah. The argument is kind of stupid, though. The thing about the argument is they're not taking into account perverts.
1:46:40Elon MuskRight, Totally. Yes, exactly. So. But I mean, the thing is that if you provide, like, a moral get out of jail free card, if you say, like, if you adopt this label, you cannot be attacked in any way, shape, or form, you're basically morally invulnerable, then obviously bad people will take advantage of that.
1:47:04Elon MuskYou're like, literally saying, here's an invulnerability card. Moral invulnerability card. Good people will take it, but also the bad people will take it. The bad people are going to be the fastest to take the moral cloak.
1:47:19Joe RoganYeah, 100%. And then there's a real psychological condition called autogynephilia, where people get aroused. Heterosexual men get aroused by the idea of dressing up like women and being around women.
1:47:30Joe RoganIt's like a known psychological condition forever. And then you're allowing those people to just say, oh, I'm trans, and go into the women's locker room and get their. Their kicks.
1:47:39Joe RoganAnd then there's real trans people. So there's, like, a lot of variability. Like, I talked about it in my act in my. My Netflix special. It's like, I believe in freedom.
1:47:48Joe RoganI believe in transgender people, but I also believe in crazy people. And if you can't. If you're trying to pretend that people aren't crazy, all of a sudden, it's like, it just.
1:47:56Elon MuskIt's just like. Like, if someone's a sort of consenting adult and they want to. Whatever they want to do to their body, as long as it's not harming someone else, I'm like, that's fine.
1:48:04Joe RoganYes.
1:48:04Elon MuskYou know, like, I believe in, like, individual freedom and, like. Like, my, you know, my mom's best friend, like, growing up when I was a kid was, you know, transgender woman in South Africa.
1:48:17Elon MuskThis was, like, where, you know, she'd get beaten up a lot because it was, like, back then, you get beaten up. So her name was Dionne. And for a nice, kind human being and help my mom a lot, you know, And I think that's okay.
1:48:38Elon MuskYou know, that's fine. If somebody wants to make that choice as an adult, that's cool.
1:48:42Joe RoganThere's a Big difference between that and an intact male who wants to identify as a woman. Who wants to walk around the locker room with his dick out.
1:48:50Elon MuskYes, exactly.
1:48:50Joe RoganThere's people that do that just because they get off on it.
1:48:53Elon MuskExactly. So you just kind of have something which is like a. Like I said, sort of moral invulnerability, or like, where you can know, like, even questioning them is you get attacked because obviously bad people will abuse that.
1:49:06Joe RoganWell, that's when I got thrown into this whole thing because there was a fighter who was a biological man who became transgender and was competing against women without telling them that they were a biological man.
1:49:17Joe RoganThey said they didn't have to tell people because it was a medical condition. No, that's not what it is. It's not what it is. Like, you can't say that.
1:49:26Joe RoganAnd of all sports, like, if someone scores more points in basketball, well, that's unfair. But if someone beats the fuck out of someone because they're lying about being a biological male, that's crazy.
1:49:39Joe RoganYou're literally allowing someone to get brain damage because you want to appeal to the woke. Fucking crazy people.
1:49:47Elon MuskIt's wrong.
1:49:47Joe RoganThink it's all right.
1:49:48Elon MuskYeah.
1:49:49Joe RoganIt's so strange that. That. That's sort of the thing that red pilled me when I got attacked for that. I'm like, this is so nuts. I can't believe where at this stage where I'm saying, hey, I don't think it's cool if you pretend you're a woman and beat the fuck out of women and people like, you're out of line, like Natalie.
1:50:06Joe RoganWell, we're in. We're. We're in fantasy land now.
1:50:09Elon MuskYes.
1:50:10Joe RoganNow we're pretending.
1:50:11Elon MuskYeah.
1:50:11Joe RoganBecause it helps you. It helps you feel better.
1:50:14Elon MuskYeah, totally.
1:50:15Joe RoganIt's just such a strange time. And if it wasn't for something like Twitter, where this could be discussed. What's more, I'll get some more major. Get some more coffee.
1:50:24Joe RoganYoung Jamie. If it wasn't for Twitter, you know, at the early Twitters, you would be kicked off forever if you just deadnamed
1:50:36Elon Musksomeone, which is insane.
1:50:38Joe RoganInsane. Yeah, Insane. I mean, especially if you think about all the things that, like the look, the Harris campaign and what the lies that they've told about Trump that we discussed earlier.
1:50:51Joe RoganYou don't get kicked off for that, but you get kicked off for calling Caitlyn Jenner Bruce forever for life.
1:50:56Elon MuskYeah. Totally insane.
1:50:59Joe RoganYeah. But if it wasn't for you buying that and changing Twitter, I don't think we would be where we're at right now. I think it was a pivotal moment.
1:51:10Joe RoganI think historically, when people look back on it, it's going to be a pivotal moment in this very bizarre fight for the freedom of information.
1:51:19Elon MuskYeah, well, I mean, at the time I said, I think, like, look, I think this is existential to the United States. It's existential to democracy, because if you don't have freedom of speech, you don't have democracy.
1:51:35Elon MuskOkay. Because if people, if you don't have freedom of speech, people cannot make an informed vote if they're just being fed propaganda. And there's no freedom of speech. Democracy is an illusion.
1:51:50Elon MuskSo freedom of speech is the bedrock of democracy. That's why freedom of speech is the First Amendment. Once you lose freedom of speech, you lose democracy. Game over. That's why I bought Twitter.
1:52:05Joe RoganAnd it seems so simple.
1:52:07Elon MuskYes.
1:52:08Joe RoganIt seems so clear that everyone should agree to that. On the left or on the right. You shouldn't be giving the government. If you imagine the Bush administration during the Iraq war, imagine if they had complete, total control of propaganda and of dissent online.
1:52:22Joe RoganYou don't want that. No one wants that. No one from the left would want that. We shouldn't want it from the left either.
1:52:28Elon MuskAbsolutely. And there's also, like the media, like the legacy, the mainstream media, what I call the legacy media at this point, it used to be much more balanced. Like, if you look at sort of political donations over time, Republican versus Democrat, there used to be the media was, I mean, they always had like a left bias, but there was like, I don't know, it was like 2/3 Democrat, one third Republican type of thing.
1:52:52Elon MuskIn terms of journalists giving, making political donations. Now it's like 95% or something Democrat. So the legacy media, the mainstream media is not balanced at all. They're just a mouthpiece for the Democratic Democratic Party.
1:53:09Elon MuskAnd you can see that in how consistent their headlines are. Like, they don't behave like they're different organizations. They behave like they're all one hive mind.
1:53:19Joe RoganRight.
1:53:19Elon MuskSo, you know, like a week before the Biden Trump debate, every media organization was saying, you know, Biden is Schoffer's attack. I mean, it was like, it's like, guys, Shawa's attack is not a common turn of phrase.
1:53:35Elon MuskAnd literally every TV station, every newspaper was like sharp be shot. I started a compilation of all the news anchors going, Biden, Shafa's attack, Shafa's attack, Shoaffer's attack. It was absurd.
1:53:50Elon MuskAnd there's obviously a huge lie. He is in fact, not Shaffer's attack, as the public learned one week later,
1:53:55Joe Roganmy favorite was Joe Scarborough. Yeah, that was wild.
1:54:01Elon MuskYeah.
1:54:02Joe RoganListen to me. This is the best version of Biden ever. The sharpest. Like, what the fuck are you saying? And then after the debate, he's like, what do we gotta.
1:54:11Joe RoganWe gotta get. Get rid of him.
1:54:12Elon MuskYeah.
1:54:12Joe RoganThis is crazy. Like, what did you just say a couple of weeks ago?
1:54:16Elon MuskLiterally. Yes, exactly.
1:54:18Joe RoganWell, the other thing was there's flat out lied when they decided J.D. vance was weird. Remember that one?
1:54:23Elon MuskAnd then they just. Weird's everywhere.
1:54:24Joe RoganWeird, weird. Oh, you don't want a weird guy. Meanwhile, you have fucking Tim Walsh is your vp. You don't think that guy's weird?
1:54:30Elon MuskSuper weird.
1:54:31Joe RoganHe's weird in every way. The way he walks, the way waves his hands.
1:54:35Elon MuskYeah, he reminds me of the clown emoji.
1:54:38Joe RoganHe's a bizarre guy.
1:54:39Elon MuskHe's a strange dude.
1:54:41Joe RoganIt's. I just don't. Choice.
1:54:43Elon MuskYeah. It gives the creep.
1:54:44Joe RoganI just don't understand why they made that choice. There's a lot of other people that are qualified. I don't know why in. I read that Kamala Harris made that decision when she was sleep deprived, which is kind of hilarious that she said that.
1:54:55Joe RoganSo she's kind of admitting she kind of fucked up.
1:54:57Elon MuskYeah. I mean, obviously should have picked Josh Shapiro. I mean, governor of Pennsylvania. Like that would have been the no brainer. That's a no brainer move. Like Pennsylvania's linchpin state.
1:55:06Joe RoganDo you think it's because he's Jewish, because of Shapiro, that like the anti Palestine people would probably. Or the anti Palestinian invasion.
1:55:15Elon MuskI think it was an anti Semitic thing. Yeah.
1:55:18Joe RoganIt could be that they thought that that was a liability because there was all these prohibitions. Palestine people right now because of the situation in Israel. That completely makes sense that they thought that would be a liability.
1:55:28Elon MuskBut I don't know. I don't know the reason. I'm just guessing. But it seems like a crazy thing to do given that Pennsylvania's linchpin state, you know, it's like the key to the election.
1:55:36Elon MuskWhy would you not pick the popular governor of Pennsylvania?
1:55:39Joe RoganRight?
1:55:39Elon MuskObviously.
1:55:40Joe RoganObviously. Yeah. And other than that, there's a bunch of other ones too. Even Newsom. There's a bunch of other people that you could have chosen. Like Newsom would have been a fine example of someone you could.
1:55:49Joe RoganI mean, I don't agree with the guy exactly. He's a polished politician. Like he lies about as much as Walsh does, but he doesn't lie about this he doesn't say he was a fucking head coach when he was assistant coach.
1:56:00Joe RoganDoesn't say he was in Tiananmen Square. I mean, that's a liability. All those different things, lying about his military rank.
1:56:06Elon MuskWell, then Walsh, like, you know, cut and run when, you know, he was actually called to duty.
1:56:10Joe RoganWell, he knew they were going to be deployed months in advance, so he resigned. And he also took. So this is where he was dishonest about his rank.
1:56:20Elon MuskYeah, he claimed he was, like, a sergeant major or something like that, because
1:56:23Joe Roganthat was, like, what he was going to get if he. But then he resigned. Yeah, because he knew that he was going to get deployed. Allegedly.
1:56:32Elon MuskI mean, that seems like a cowardly action.
1:56:35Joe RoganWell, whatever it is, it's dishonest. I mean, just to say. Look, just saying that you were a head coach when you're an assistant coach is fucking crazy. That's a lie.
1:56:43Joe RoganDon't do that. You should never do that.
1:56:46Elon MuskYeah, saying he was in Tiananmen Square or whatever, or in Hong Kong, whatever. Like. Like, yo, that's one of the most biggest moments in history. Like, it's not like you forgot what you had for lunch last week, you know?
1:56:56Joe RoganRight. And not only that, but you don't think people are gonna research that?
1:56:59Elon MuskYeah, totally.
1:57:00Joe RoganI mean, and the response during the debate was bananas. I'm a knucklehead.
1:57:06Elon MuskWell, yeah, we don't want a knucklehead for a vp. Okay.
1:57:09Joe RoganYeah, this is like, sometimes I'm a knucklehead. Like, what. What are you saying? Are you saying you lied? Like, what did you. I mean, this is where you need a podcast and not a debate.
1:57:18Elon MuskExactly.
1:57:18Joe RoganWhere you go, okay, when did you first say that you were in Tiananmen Square? Like, did someone say it and you didn't refute it and you got stuck with it?
1:57:28Joe RoganLike, what was. Because this is the thing about, like, carrying weapons of war. Like, what I carried when I. Like, and, like, you didn't deploy in war.
1:57:35Elon MuskYeah.
1:57:35Joe RoganLike, you can't say that, but you kind of let people say. Say that you deployed, and then you kind of didn't. You know, you've deployed in war. So did you lie or did someone else lie?
1:57:47Joe RoganYou didn't correct them? Like, this is the kind of conversation that you would want to have with a guy in a podcast.
1:57:52Elon MuskYes.
1:57:53Joe RoganAnd the debates were so fucking skewed, where they were correcting, like, particularly the Biden one, where they're correcting Trump over and over again and then correcting Trump with Kamala, where Kamala Was saying not true.
1:58:07Elon MuskI mean, Kamala deliberately repeated the fine people hoax and was not fact checked.
1:58:11Joe RoganWell, not only that, she also said that no troops were being deployed in a war zone, which is, I mean,
1:58:18Elon MuskI know troops in war zones. I'm like, that's. And as vice president, you're privy, you know, like, you know, the official troops and the unofficial troops.
1:58:29Joe RoganRight.
1:58:30Elon MuskYou know, so what she said was like, flat out bold faced lie, flat out next level bold face lie. Have you seen the video absurd lie
1:58:38Joe Roganof the troops that were watching it take place? Then what the fuck are we. They're watching it in real time.
1:58:45Elon MuskWe're here being shot at.
1:58:47Joe RoganSo crazy.
1:58:48Elon MuskCrazy.
1:58:49Joe RoganBut it just shows you the level of propaganda that we're being subject to, which is why people think Donald Trump is the devil. Cuz the machine has gone all out as far as it can go with with lawfare, with propaganda, with lies, with just pushing as much in this direction as humanly possible, connecting it to the Nazi rally like every step of the way.
1:59:13Joe RoganNo wonder why boomers are like rabid. Like, you gotta keep this Nazi out of office. He's a fascist.
1:59:19Elon MuskExactly. If all you get is like, if your entire exposure is to legacy mainstream media, so all your information sources are that Trump is basically Hitler, then. And you have no.
1:59:32Elon MuskAnd your friend group has that same information, you have no countervailing opinion.
1:59:37Joe RoganRight.
1:59:37Elon MuskSo then they actually just think like, Trump is Hitler, even though it's like a little strange. He didn't do Hitler things the last four years.
1:59:45Joe RoganYeah.
1:59:45Elon MuskYou know, I'm like, if he's Hitler, why didn't he do Hitler things when he was president for four years?
1:59:50Joe RoganRight.
1:59:50Elon MuskLike, the reason, you know, we hate Hitler is because of he started wars and did genocide, not because he was a snappy dresser. You know, And I'm like, so tell me about the wars and genocide that Trump did.
2:00:04Elon MuskI don't remember that. And he was president for four years, so it's insane. It makes no sense.
2:00:10Joe RoganWell, and also he's campaigning on stopping all the wars. Yes. It's like his primary concern.
2:00:15Elon MuskExactly. The warmongers like Liz Cheney hate him because they love war.
2:00:20Joe RoganWell, they profit off of it.
2:00:21Elon MuskThey profit off of war.
2:00:22Joe RoganYeah.
2:00:22Elon MuskYes.
2:00:23Joe RoganWhich is insane.
2:00:24Elon MuskInsane.
2:00:24Joe RoganYeah. And that this is happening right in front of everybody's face.
2:00:28Elon MuskYeah. The war profiteers hate Trump.
2:00:30Joe RoganYeah.
2:00:31Elon MuskWhich is fucked up. I mean, we should be like, yeah, let's vote for the guy that the war profiteers hate. That sounds like a great idea.
2:00:37Joe RoganIt was the wildest thing when Dick Cheney endorsed Kamala, and the left went crazy, like, yay. Dick Cheney's on our side.
2:00:43Elon MuskLike, yeah. Like, I'm like, can we. Can we play all the videos where you said Dick Cheney was the devil?
2:00:50Joe RoganIt's the craziest turn. The craziest, like, 180 I've ever seen in my life. Because there's no reason for it.
2:00:56Elon MuskYeah.
2:00:56Joe RoganIt doesn't make any sense. No logic to it at all. Just all of a sudden, he's the devil.
2:01:01Elon MuskYeah.
2:01:01Joe RoganOr he's not the devil. He's good. It's good that he's supporting, comma, even
2:01:05Elon MuskDick Cheney, you know, I mean, warmongers want the Kamala puppet regime because they will get more war.
2:01:14Joe RoganIt's so strange watching all these Hollywood celebrities, like, step up, like.
2:01:18Elon MuskYeah.
2:01:18Joe RoganAnd they think it's gonna get them more movies or something. That's what it is. If you know those people, so many of them are. I mean, let me tell you, narcissists.
2:01:24Elon MuskWell, let me tell you how it actually works. There is. What happens is, you know, these celebrities, they get a call, okay? They had a call from someone powerful in Hollywood, and that person says, you know, it'd be really, really great if you're endorsed comedy.
2:01:38Elon MuskYou don't have to. It's up to you. But if you don't, they don't say it. They don't say it. But if you don't, you're just never going to get a call again.
2:01:45Elon MuskNo more movies, no more concerts. They'll ask it. They ask in a really nice way. It'd be really nice if you endorse, comma. This is important.
2:01:55Joe RoganAnd so they don't say that if you don't.
2:01:57Elon MuskThey don't make the threat. They don't need to. But everyone knows what will happen if you don't.
2:02:03Joe RoganWell, I think there's also. Even if they don't think that something's going to happen to them, if they don't, there's this compelling feeling to support this cause that you think is going to get you a bunch of positive attention and you're going to be on the right side of history.
2:02:19Joe RoganAnd all these narratives that you. Especially from the left in Hollywood, like, they're all in on whoever the fuck is The Democrat, always. 100%. There's never a call from the Hollywood machine to support any Republicans.
2:02:33Joe RoganI've never seen it once.
2:02:34Elon MuskYeah. Ever? Never.
2:02:36Joe RoganSo it's like you realize that. And that whole business is based on getting picked. The whole business is not necessarily merit based. There's a lot of brilliant actors you never hear from.
2:02:47Joe RoganThere's a lot of people who can do that, but they don't get chosen for roles. And everybody knows this, that you have to sort of socialize, you throw the
2:02:53Elon Muskline or you don't get chosen for the roles. Because there's a lot of competition for the roles. That's why I say, like, when someone powerful in Hollywood who's able to make to choose these roles, calls one of these celebrities, they know the deal.
2:03:06Joe RoganYeah.
2:03:06Elon MuskThere's no threat is necessary.
2:03:09Joe RoganWell, you could see it in real time, like with Dennis Quaid when he made that Reagan movie and they wouldn't let him advertise on social media platforms. They were banning ads for it.
2:03:18Elon MuskYeah.
2:03:19Joe RoganFor what? Because it was an election year. Like, what are you talking about? This is about a guy who's dead.
2:03:23Elon MuskYes.
2:03:23Joe RoganGuy was president a long ass time ago. Like, what do you. How is this, how does this have anything to do with the election year? Yeah, but it's the punishment.
2:03:32Joe RoganIt's like you stepped outside the line. You supported the other guy.
2:03:35Elon MuskYeah. The problem is you'll just, you'll just never. You'll just never get a call again for a movie or, you know, concert or whatever it is. Yeah.
2:03:40Joe RoganWhich is crazy.
2:03:41Elon MuskThat's the issue.
2:03:42Joe RoganI mean, we used to allow people to be a Republican and still be a movie star. Like Clint Eastwood. Reagan. Yeah. But Clint Eastwood.
2:03:52Elon MuskYeah.
2:03:52Joe RoganLike during the Obama administration, Clint Eastwood was like an outspoken Republican and yet was, you know, a giant movie star. And people's like, ah, it's Clint. He was allowed.
2:04:03Joe RoganYou were allowed to have. There was a variety of different opinions. Charlton Heston. There was a variety of different opinions you were allowed to have, but now you're not.
2:04:12Joe RoganNow it's just like. And once Trump, Trump got into office, he became this focal point where all logic was thrown out the window. And it's just, Trump is bad.
2:04:23Joe RoganYou have to attack Trump. Trump is right. Right wing's bad. Everyone. Right wing is bad. Christian's bad.
2:04:28Elon MuskYes.
2:04:29Joe RoganIt's just strange.
2:04:31Elon MuskYeah, exactly. So. Well, I'll say it again, man. I think this is the last election. If Trump doesn't win, this is the last election.
2:04:42Joe RoganI think you're right. Yeah, I think you're right. I think people, and a lot of people are waking up and realize that that have been lifelong Democrats. Guys like Bill Ackman, guys like Chamath.
2:04:52Elon MuskExactly.
2:04:53Joe RoganTulsi Garrett switched over to the Republicans. Like, there's a lot of people who their whole life, they've been left wing and they realize like, I can't do this anymore.
2:05:00Elon MuskYou and I used to be Democrats. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:05:03Joe RoganIt's nuts.
2:05:04Elon MuskIt's nuts, man. And you know, I mean, I think the things we want are just pretty basic, you know, it's like we want individual liberties and we want opportunity.
2:05:15Elon MuskWe want America to remain the land of freedom and opportunity so we maximize people's personal freedom. The government can't barge into your house and kill your fucking pet. That's fucked up.
2:05:28Elon MuskAnd you know, and that you succeed as a function of your hard work and talent, not anything else. Not race, religion, sex, doesn't matter, you know. Yes, the basic stuff.
2:05:38Joe RoganAnd then what did you change the acronym dei? What'd you change it to?
2:05:42Elon MuskDie.
2:05:44Joe RoganWhat is it?
2:05:45Elon MuskDie. I mean, because with diversity, inclusion and equity is die.
2:05:51Joe RoganBut didn't you change excellence and.
2:05:56Elon MuskYeah, yeah, yeah. I mean we want America. America being the land of opportunity means that we have an environment where you succeed as a function of your hard work and skill, you know, and that's radical.
2:06:11Joe RoganRadical. Are you the best person?
2:06:13Elon MuskThis makes you right wing now, you know, I'm like, okay, great, pull me right away. I don't care. So you know, you're not a real country unless you have secure borders.
2:06:23Elon MuskYou're just a fake country. So we need. And our cities are unsafe and dirty. Like you know, my mom was telling me, my mom's like pretty red pilled at this point.
2:06:35Elon MuskBut you know what's going to red pill you really, really fast is having your friends get assaulted on the streets of New York.
2:06:41Joe RoganYeah.
2:06:41Elon MuskAnd that happened to three of our friends this year. Got assaulted on the streets in New York just walking around.
2:06:47Joe RoganYeah.
2:06:48Elon MuskAnd nobody got arrested. Nothing. Nothing happened.
2:06:55Joe RoganWell, the, the morale of the police is like depleted.
2:06:59Elon MuskYeah, substantially for sure. The morale of police gets depleted. And then also like at some point, like, like if you're a police officer and you're arresting someone who's, who's violent, you're putting a life at risk, obviously.
2:07:10Elon MuskBecause they might, you know, sometimes they'll try to kill you and then if you know that arresting this violent person, they will be immediately released by the da which happens in New York.
2:07:19Elon MuskAlvin Bragg, he doesn't prosecute people. Then why, why should a police officer put their life at risk to arrest someone when they know they will not be. They will just be let out immediately.
2:07:29Elon MuskYeah, it's pointless. Yeah, it's like the friggin Joker. It's like Dark Knight. Like the friggin Joker is In charge.
2:07:38Joe RoganYeah.
2:07:38Elon MuskLike the criminals run free and the citizens are arrested. That like, this is why I keep coming back to this. Like still pretty shook about the friggin squirrel thing.
2:07:51Elon MuskIt's like, you know, at gunpoint, forced the guy to like stay outside his house while they got his pets and killed them. Meanwhile, you know, violent felons are running free.
2:08:02Elon MuskAnd this is in New York State are running free. This is a joker. Yeah. It's not the law abiding citizens are arrested and the criminals are let free. This is fucked up, guys.
2:08:16Joe RoganJust the fact that they have the resources to do that when they have all the crime that they have. You have the resources and the government resources to go kill someone's squirrel.
2:08:24Elon MuskYeah.
2:08:25Joe RoganThis whole idea of this Government Efficiency agency.
2:08:31Elon MuskYeah, I mean, call it whatever you want.
2:08:32Joe RoganWhat do you want to call it? What do you call it?
2:08:34Elon MuskI mean, I think the funniest name is Doge. The Doge. The Department of Government. Of Government Efficiency. Yeah, I mean the idea is pretty simple, is that like we've got this suffocating massive federal bureaucracy and we need to, that is, and government spending is like bankrupting the country.
2:09:00Elon MuskOur interest payments on the national debt now exceed the Defense Department budget. The Defense Department budget is like a trillion dollars a year. Interest payments on the national debt are now higher than the Defense Department budget and growing like every month.
2:09:20Elon MuskSo it's like, it's not like basically we're on a path to bankruptcy. America's on a path to bankruptcy. So. So we have to cut government spending or we're just going to go bankrupt, just like a person would if that overspends.
2:09:32Elon MuskBut it's even worse than that. Like we're spending money on all these like these government agencies. And like I asked, I actually asked the AI, like how many government agencies are there?
2:09:40Elon MuskAnd the government isn't even sure how many government agencies there are. So it's like somewhere around 450, depending on what you call an agency. So there are at the federal level.
2:09:53Elon MuskSo that's almost twice as many agencies as years that America has existed. So we're creating agencies at roughly two agencies a year.
2:10:03Joe RoganWow.
2:10:03Elon MuskYes. So this is insane. I bet there's like, I wonder if there's even one person who could even name all the 450 agencies at the federal level. There might be no one, but there's hardly anyone, let's just say.
2:10:18Elon MuskI bet most people couldn't even name like 100, you know. So this is crazy. So we've got the suffocating this Vast suffocating federal bureaucracy that just gets bigger every year and eventually you get to the point where everything's illegal, you can't get anything done.
2:10:37Joe RoganSo what can be done like with, obviously the President has a lot of power, but how much power? And what can be done in terms of like eliminating agencies, eliminating wage eliminating?
2:10:50Elon MuskYeah, well, I mean, so like if Congress has created an agency, then I mean often if you look at the law, the law is like pretty simple. Like the agency has like a very simple task, but then that agency over time vastly increases its authority and starts doing things that were never authorized by Congress.
2:11:10Elon MuskThat's happened with pretty much every agency. So yeah, you'd have to still, you know, keep an agency, you'd have to match the law. But you can, you can curtail the agencies to be much smaller and say you got to stick to what Congress authorized instead of all this other stuff you're doing, which I think makes sense.
2:11:29Joe RoganAnd so is the other stuff they're doing just essentially bureaucracy run amok or they just create jobs and create things to do and create a meaning for their existence.
2:11:39Elon MuskYeah, it's like a tumor, it's just going to keep growing.
2:11:43Joe RoganJesus Christ.
2:11:44Elon MuskAnd it's so, I mean for SpaceX, Starship was sitting on the pad, the rocket, this giant rocket, we could build the rocket faster than they could process the paperwork to approve the launch.
2:11:56Elon MuskSo we're sitting there for two months.
2:11:59Joe RoganBut do you think that they're doing that on purpose to fuck with you?
2:12:02Elon MuskI can't. I mean, maybe a little bit. I mean that would also not be cool. But another way to think of it is like the amount of paperwork is going to go roughly with the square of the number of agencies involved because they all have to meet with each other.
2:12:23Elon MuskSo let's say in the best case situation if you've got like, if there's like, if you're dealing with one agency, that's one thing. But if you've got to deal with five agencies and the agencies will have to meet with each other, now you've got like, you know, 25 different, you know, meeting configurations that have to take place.
2:12:48Elon MuskIt's just everything just, you get just hardening of the arteries. You just can't make progress. Like this is why we can't build high speed rail in America. It's basically illegal.
2:12:58Joe RoganRight. So this has been the, the argument has always been that we need regulation because we need to protect the environment, we need to protect people, we need to make sure the rul laws followed.
2:13:07Joe RoganSo we need a certain amount of regulation. But over regulation is a giant problem. That's a big issue in California. It's a huge issue. Anywhere where bureaucracy has run amok, they make it very difficult to get anything done.
2:13:21Elon MuskYes. I mean, what happens is every year there are more rules and regulations created. And in the past, what has served as a cleansing function for rules and regulations is war because, well, we're going to lose if we don't kind of clear the decks.
2:13:38Elon MuskBut we haven't really had an existential threat of war in the US We've had prosperity for a long time, which has resulted in a massive buildup of rules and regulations every year.
2:13:48Elon MuskAnd to the point where, like I said, like, everything's illegal, you know, and it's not like any one regulation is the problem. It's like Gulliver being tied down by a million little strings.
2:13:58Elon MuskIt's not like any one string is the problem, but you got a million them of them. So we've got to clear the decks here. And I'm not saying we shouldn't have regulators.
2:14:08Elon MuskI'm just saying we've gone way too far. Once you think of regulators like referees on a field, a sports field, you don't want to have no refs. You want to have some number of refs, but you don't want to have way more refs than players.
2:14:24Elon MuskYou don't want to be like, well, the running back couldn't complete the pass because there were too many regulators in the way. Because the football field's full of regulators.
2:14:34Elon MuskYou know, it's like you can't even play the game right. That's the issue we've got right now.
2:14:38Joe RoganWell, that's a great analogy. You know, I can imagine a football field that's filled with reference, like the
2:14:43Elon Muskfootball fields filled with refs, you know?
2:14:44Joe RoganYeah. You can't even run past them. Yeah, yeah, that. I've seen criticism of this idea of you coming up with this department of like, firing a bunch of people and what would happen and how would that work?
2:14:57Joe RoganBut the criticism doesn't make any sense to me because if there is. If you measurably, if you can prove that there's a lot of wasted time and resources, which I think is pretty easy to do.
2:15:11Joe RoganAnd if you could say that this is not the most efficient. Like the most efficient businesses are generally private businesses or a company, because they kind of have to be in order to stay profitable.
2:15:22Joe RoganThe government doesn't have to be profitable. They don't have to be efficient. They don't have competition. So if you're making cars and your cars break down, they suck. And someone makes cars, the cars are better, they're going to succeed.
2:15:33Joe RoganSo this is the free market. The government doesn't have this problem when they're in charge of certain things that could probably be better served by the public, by the private sector.
2:15:44Elon MuskYeah, absolutely. Well, look, I just think we've gotten, we've got far too many government agencies. The federal bureaucracy has gotten out of hand and we just need to pare it down to a sensible level.
2:15:54Elon MuskAnd if it turns out that like there's some regulation or agency that was doing something useful, we can put it right back, no problem. Like it's like, oh, that regulation was important, no problem, we'll put it right back.
2:16:05Joe RoganRight. So it's not obviously, no, but to be able to look at it logically and objectively. And you were also floating around the idea of offering a large severance to the people that you're going to have removed, like a couple years or something like that.
2:16:19Joe RoganIs that what you're saying?
2:16:20Elon MuskYeah, I mean, I'm just, these are again, just ideas. But I mean, the point is not that people suffer economic hardship. The point is just that there are more productive things they can do in the economy and it would be better if they did these other more productive things.
2:16:36Elon MuskAnd we didn't have this vast federal bureaucracy. So I was like, ah, maybe like a couple years of pay would be good and then they could take a vacation, they could take another job and get double pay.
2:16:48Elon MuskI mean, it's like, it's not like a, it's not going to create an economic crisis. I think it's actually going to be really good. I think because we can be, you know, people can move to where they're making products and services that are more useful to their fellow human beings.
2:17:03Joe RoganThe problem is if someone has like a 25, 30 year career of being institutionalized, you're essentially like a part of the government system. You've sort of programmed your life and your career to be a part of this bureaucratic system.
2:17:18Joe RoganAnd then you're like, nope, you have to go out and compete in a free market.
2:17:20Elon MuskLike, huh,
2:17:24Joe Roganthat's, that's scary to people. But you have to be valuable. You have to actually be valuable.
2:17:29Elon MuskYeah, yeah. I mean, let's look at like, you know, wherever the government pension and stuff. They're not going to be, you know, and tough. I think they'll be in good financial shape.
2:17:39Joe RoganHow are you going to have the time to oversee all this?
2:17:41Elon MuskShit. Well, I'm pretty good at improving efficiency. I mean, I would say so. Yeah.
2:17:51Joe RoganBut still, this seems like a giant undertaking.
2:17:56Elon MuskYeah. I'll probably need to beef obscurity.
2:17:59Joe RoganOh, yeah, yeah, for sure.
2:18:02Elon MuskBut like I said, no one's going to experience, I think, economic hardship. That's. They'll be fine. People do find other roles. I mean, you can look at sort of like when East Germany and West Germany got back together.
2:18:18Elon MuskEveryone was basically working for the government in East Germany and it was really inefficient and that their economic output was like, in East Germany was like a quarter of what it was in West Germany because everyone was working for the government.
2:18:32Elon MuskThe government's like, fundamentally inefficient.
2:18:34Joe RoganSo the best example is probably north and South Korea, right?
2:18:38Elon MuskYeah. People are starving in North Korea, and South Korea is incredibly prosperous. And it's the same people, just different operating system.
2:18:46Joe RoganRight.
2:18:46Elon MuskSo, you know, it's just like you just want to move people from, you know, less productive things to more productive things. Whether. Because you can also say, like, in the limit, like, let's just say, let's consider the other direction where we moved a whole bunch of people that were in the private sector doing making goods and services and we moved them into the government as regulators.
2:19:09Elon MuskNow they stopped making those goods and services. So the stuff they were making is no longer available. Now they're just being regulators. Like, is that a good thing? That's not a good thing.
2:19:19Joe RoganDoesn't sound good.
2:19:20Elon MuskNo, it's not good.
2:19:21Joe RoganDoesn't sound like there's a real market for it. Like you're creating jobs that don't necessarily need to be there.
2:19:26Elon MuskThere are all these fake jobs, basically, and that doesn't make sense. So look, we've got to do this because the country's going bankrupt. Like, if we don't take action, dollars going to be worth nothing.
2:19:40Elon MuskAnd the interest payments, which are already 23%, 23% of all government income, including income taxes, tariffs and everything, is just going to pay interest right now. And that number is continually rising.
2:19:53Elon MuskSo if we don't do something, the entire government budget will be paying interest. There won't be money for anything. No. There won't be money for Social Security. There won't be money for Medicare.
2:20:02Elon MuskNothing. That's where we're headed. That's what bankruptcy means. Yeah.
2:20:07Joe RoganThat's such an insane concept.
2:20:08Elon MuskYes. It's like, hello, wake up, wake up. And if somebody can tell me, can show me, like, pencil out the math and show me how this works, I'D love to hear it, but I'm just like, listen, I'm looking at the numbers here, and I'm like, if we don't do something, America's toast.
2:20:26Elon MuskThere won't be money for anything.
2:20:27Joe RoganTrump likes to talk about a lot is tariffs.
2:20:30Elon MuskYeah.
2:20:30Joe RoganWhat are your thoughts on tariffs? I know that's very controversial to even people, economists, they disagree. Some agree, some think it's a good idea, some think it's a terrible idea.
2:20:40Joe RoganWhat do you think?
2:20:42Elon MuskI think you need to be careful with tariffs. I deal a lot with supply chain issues. Like the global automotive supply chain for Tesla, for example, is incredibly complex.
2:20:55Elon MuskSo when there are sudden changes in tariffs, then you're like, well, we've got a factory, like somewhere else that's making a part that goes into the car. Now if that part's suddenly twice as expensive, it like, messes everything up, you know.
2:21:09Elon MuskSo you want to be. Have tariffs be predictable so that companies can adjust their supply chain. I mean, I think companies are more than happy to increase manufacturing in America.
2:21:22Elon MuskIt's just that you can't do it instantly. So if you put in and if you put up giant tariffs immediately and don't give companies a chance to build factories in America because you got to move atoms, like, you've got to build a building, you've got to install equipment, you've got to train people.
2:21:44Elon MuskThat doesn't happen instantly. So you just got, you want to have for tariffs, you want to have a RAM so that companies can adjust and build the factories and train the people and get the equipment in place.
2:22:00Elon MuskOtherwise you basically just shock the system and it breaks or bad things happen. So I'm against, like, sudden giant tariffs because it's an impossible response. If you've got to move 1,000 tons of equipment, you can just, in some cases, collectively millions of tons of equipment.
2:22:20Elon MuskYou just can't do that overnight. It's literally impossible. So I think we want to be thoughtful about tariffs and give companies a ramp. I mean, I do generally agree that America should do more manufacturing.
2:22:35Elon MuskI'm a big manufacturing guy. I love manufacturing. I've spent a lot of time in the factory.
2:22:39Joe RoganWell, you've talked openly about the difficulties of manufacturing, how complicated it is, and about. Most people aren't really aware of something that's as complex as, like, say, building a Tesla.
2:22:49Elon MuskYeah, manufacturing is super hard and complicated. So, you know, like, a lot of people just, they've never been in a factory or they don't know where, how, how difficult it is to make things, and they you know, for a lot of people, I think just ketchup comes from the store.
2:23:04Elon MuskYou know, like the store like just has a. Like this is like people, like, for a lot of people who've been in academia or, you know, for all these like sort of socialist communist types, like they've never actually made anything.
2:23:14Elon MuskSo they're operating on the premise that there's this magical horn of plenty that just outputs goods and services. And if someone's got more goods and services than someone else's because they took more from this magical horn aplenty.
2:23:26Elon MuskAnd I'm like, guys, there's no magical horn of plenty. There's no cornucopia. It's actually goods and services come from people working collectively doing a lot of hard work to produce the goods and services that you like, make and that you need.
2:23:43Joe RoganBut we've become very accustomed to these things happening overseas.
2:23:46Elon MuskI mean, America is still the second biggest manufacturer in the world. So it's not. Still make a lot of stuff, but we could make more, probably should make more.
2:23:56Elon MuskI think we should value manufacturing a lot more in the United States than we currently do.
2:23:59Joe RoganWell, it would be very nice if we were completely self sufficient, like medicine. There's a bunch of different things that get manufactured overseas that we was a huge problem during COVID because all the shipping was shut down.
2:24:10Elon MuskYeah, I mean, you want to say like, so there's a lot of merit to the economics of comparative advantage. Like, so if you're completely self sufficient, what that means is that you make all this stuff yourself.
2:24:25Elon MuskAnd even if some other country is really good at making something, you still make it yourself. Which means you're going to have the inferior, more costly product domestically.
2:24:34Joe RoganRight, Like Soviet Russia.
2:24:37Elon MuskYeah, like trade. Trade improves prosperity. This is important. So you don't actually want to make everything yourself. And you can run this like you can think of this thought experiment on a sort of a microscale or small scale and then expand that and say, where does the.
2:24:58Elon MuskSo at what point does the thought experiment no longer prove to be valid? Now let's consider the case of you as an individual. Imagine you have to do everything yourself.
2:25:06Elon MuskYou had to farm, you had to grow chickens. If you want eggs, you've got to build your own house, you've got to do your own electrical repair, your own plumbing, everything yourself, everything.
2:25:21Elon MuskNow that would be impossible. Okay, now let's expand it to. Okay, you've got. But there's 10 people. Now you're going to have some specialization of tasks. Okay, well maybe one person could be really good at construction, Another person could be good at farming, but it's still 10 people is not enough.
2:25:38Elon MuskLet's go to 100 people now. Let's go to 100 million people now. Let's go to a billion people. And you still get the economics of specialization, like specialization of labor, where people become expert at particular things, still matters at a billion people or at 8 billion people, which is Earth.
2:25:56Elon MuskSo you still want. You do want specialization of labor. You do want countries to be really good at a particular thing and make that thing.
2:26:06Joe RoganAlso, it encourages innovation if you have competition. If the Germans are making better cars, we have to make better cars to compete with them. Which is like one of the things that happened during, like the 80s and 90s, and America was making crap cars and Germany is making much better ones.
2:26:18Elon MuskYeah, yeah, exactly. I mean, yeah, the Japanese car. I mean, yeah. I mean, basically the American car industry got really lazy in the 70s and 80s, and then the Japanese and German car companies came in and just cleaned the clock, you know, and there was like an old joke from the.
2:26:39Elon MuskThat is kind of telling. It's a very old joke where it's like, why did the Japanese car companies beat the American car companies? Well, it's like, well, in the Japanese car company, you had eight people rowing and one person steering.
2:26:54Elon MuskAnd in the American car company, you had eight people steering and one person rowing. If this was a boat. So imagine the boat race. Yeah, Boat race, Japanese boat, you've got eight people rowing and one person steering.
2:27:05Elon MuskIn the American boat, you got one person rowing and eight people steering. And when the American car company loses the race, they fire the rower and it's like, okay, that was actually kind of true.
2:27:21Elon MuskEveryone wants to be the boss and everyone wants to do the work type of thing.
2:27:24Joe RoganYeah. One thing that a lot of people are concerned about is the potential disruption that's going to come about with automation and AI, that a lot of these jobs, manufacturing jobs, teamsters, all that stuff is going to be eliminated.
2:27:41Joe RoganWhat do you. I mean, you're at the forefront of this. So how do you see this playing out? And what do you think that can be done to mitigate a lot of the loss of purpose that a lot of people are going to feel?
2:27:54Joe RoganLoss of income, Obviously, universal basic income is being floated about, but that seems to me to only be part of the problem. Another big part of the problem is people losing a sense of purpose.
2:28:07Elon MuskYeah. Now we're talking about something which is still pretty far in the future.
2:28:13Joe RoganHow far do you think it Is,
2:28:16Elon MuskWell, I mean, it's probably, I don't know, 15, 20 years type of thing. So we've got immediate issues, we've got short term issues that are 1 to 3 years, medium term issues, like 5 to 10 years longer term issues which are for like maybe 20 years longer term.
2:28:35Elon MuskI think there is this question of if you have AI and robotics, how do you find meaning in life? If the computer can do everything better than you can and the robot can do everything better than you can.
2:28:45Elon MuskBut we're still, we've got a long way to go before that and we're, you know, and I do think it's like 80% likely to be a good outcome, like maybe 90.
2:28:57Elon MuskSo I think everyone's going to have their own personal robot. And I think at some point wouldn't you want to have your own personal C3PO? R2D2?
2:29:07Joe RoganSo it's going to be essentially just like everyone has their own phone.
2:29:10Elon MuskYeah. Everyone will have their own robot buddy. Like literally.
2:29:16Joe RoganWell, it would be great if it protected you. Like if you walk down the street of New York City and you have a Terminator with you.
2:29:21Elon MuskI don't have the Terminator. Hopefully we got to avoid. We don't want this to be the plot of a J. James Cameron, you know, more Gene Roddenberry than James Cameron movie situation.
2:29:32Joe RoganBut it would be fascinating to watch some rich person walk down the street of New York City flanked by two giant Tesla robots.
2:29:39Elon MuskJack Tesla robots just fully robots.
2:29:43Joe RoganSomebody fully robot there to protect you from a bad neighborhood. Yeah, that would be very interesting.
2:29:50Elon MuskI mean this is.
2:29:51Joe RoganYou could potentially see that.
2:29:53Elon MuskYeah.
2:29:54Joe RoganRestaurants probably have no robot rules. You can't bring a robot.
2:29:59Elon MuskYeah. Leave a robot.
2:30:00Joe RoganYeah. Leave your robot outside, your robot standing by the table.
2:30:04Elon MuskMan. If you just gonna be wild.
2:30:06Joe RoganIt's gonna be wild.
2:30:07Elon MuskYeah, yeah.
2:30:08Joe RoganIt's gonna be really unpredictable. Like, I don't think, I mean, you probably have a pretty good sense of it, but I think most people don't understand the wave that's coming.
2:30:19Joe RoganAnd I was going to kind of completely drown society and change it forever.
2:30:25Elon MuskYeah, I mean it's, we have, like I said, it's. It's not like it's not going to happen like overnight, but it's 20 years from now. I'm like, I think it's like 20 years from now.
2:30:37Elon MuskI think there's going to be more humanoid robots than there are humans.
2:30:40Joe RoganReally?
2:30:41Elon MuskYes.
2:30:42Joe RoganMore humanized. Well, that's so crazy. Like, so that's like more guns. We have more guns. Than people in America. We'll have more robots than people in America as well.
2:30:50Elon MuskYes.
2:30:51Joe RoganYou have a bunch of old robots nobody wants anymore.
2:30:54Elon MuskI guess early Persians or something.
2:31:01Joe RoganIn a historical timeline, 20 years in the past has not been that big of a deal. I mean, this is a big deal, but you go from like 1900, 1920, not that big of a deal.
2:31:12Joe Rogan1920, 1940, kind of a big deal. 1940, 1960, things start getting weird. 60 to 80. Wow, that's a big difference. 80 to 2000. Holy shit. Now you have the Internet.
2:31:23Joe Rogan2000 to 2020. Whoa. This is nuts. You have propaganda, social media, YouTube streaming 20 years from now. Like, what are we even talking about? It's going to be that much of a shift.
2:31:40Joe RoganLike, it's all accelerating and we're in the middle of it. So it's very difficult to sort of, like, feel it while it's happening, because it kind of just feels like life and you just get adapted to the changes.
2:31:56Elon MuskYeah. I mean, people's phones at this point are a supercomputer in their pocket. Like an article that can answer any questions. People take it for granted. Yeah.
2:32:04Joe RoganIt's normal.
2:32:05Elon MuskYeah.
2:32:05Joe RoganThey get mad if it doesn't work.
2:32:07Elon MuskYeah.
2:32:07Joe RoganIt's like Louis CK's joke about using your phone when you're on a plane. Fucking piece of shit. You're in the sky, you're floating in the air.
2:32:14Elon MuskAnd now it will work with Starlink, too.
2:32:17Joe RoganWhat's that?
2:32:17Elon MuskIt will work with Starlink, the Starlink connection. It'll be like being on the ground.
2:32:22Joe RoganWell, I was telling you how I used Starlink when I was in Utah. I was in the mountains of Utah. There was no cell phone service anywhere near. And we had full YouTube, we had text messages, FaceTime, everything.
2:32:35Joe RoganPhone calls. It was nuts. And it was this big cigar box.
2:32:40Elon MuskYeah.
2:32:41Joe RoganIt's crazy. It's so light. When I brought it out there, like, that's it. Or this is it. Just plug it in. And the guys I was in camp with, they're like, this is crazy.
2:32:48Elon MuskYeah.
2:32:49Joe RoganThe whole camp was, like, sharing it. So, like, 10 people using the wifi signal. It's nuts.
2:32:56Elon MuskYep.
2:32:58Joe RoganAnd then, you know, that's the beginning. I mean, what you're at right now is like, what version? This is Starlink mini. Right. So this is like a very small version.
2:33:08Joe RoganHow much smaller can it scale down from that?
2:33:10Elon MuskWell, there's a certain area that you need. Like, the bigger the area, the more you can.
2:33:18Joe RoganThe higher bandwidth.
2:33:20Elon MuskYeah. Because you're, like, trying to catch these like photons essentially. So you can think of the area of the antenna is the more area you have, the more photons you can catch.
2:33:37Elon MuskBut we have a direct to cell capability as well that we've been launching that will turn on probably in a few months that'll actually connect directly to a cell phone, unmodified.
2:33:49Elon MuskBut because the cell phone is a much worse antenna than a dedicated antenna, It'll be about 100 times less bandwidth. But still you'll be able to do text messages, pictures, medium resolution videos, that kind of thing.
2:34:01Joe RoganOne of the cool things about the new phone, the new iPhone, the iPhone 16, I got it and I was in the mountains last month and I was text messaging with satellites imessages and receiving them.
2:34:13Elon MuskBut just text.
2:34:14Joe RoganYeah, just tax.
2:34:15Elon MuskYeah.
2:34:15Joe RoganBut still pretty impressive.
2:34:16Elon MuskYeah, yeah.
2:34:19Joe RoganI mean what are we, what are we going to be looking at 100 years from now? I mean when you.
2:34:24Elon Musk100 years from now? I hope civilization's around. Yeah, that'll be a win. Yeah, yeah.
2:34:30Joe RoganWhat are the chances that we fuck this whole thing up 50%?
2:34:39Elon MuskIt's hard to say. I mean,
2:34:47Elon MuskI guess like I don't think civilization will be totally destroyed unless there's like some really massive global thermonuclear war. But I mean Stephen Hawking, he would say that there was like at least a 1% chance of total annihilation every century.
2:35:03Elon MuskThat was his rough estimate. But there's a much bigger chance of civilization being less capable than it is today. So you say like. Well, because you look at say these various civilizations throughout history, whether it's like ancient Sumerians or the Egyptians, the Romans, there's like a life cycle to civilization.
2:35:29Elon MuskThey reached a peak and then they started subsiding. So I think a bigger question is like will our technology level be better or worse than it is today? In 100 years.
2:35:46Elon MuskI think it's probably going to be better,
2:35:52Elon MuskBut any estimates are going to be so there's so many dependencies. Like an estimate I think is. I'm not sure it has any meaning because it's like there's so many things that can happen in 100 years.
2:36:04Joe RoganWell, the logical hope is always that people pay attention to history and they recognize the patterns and how civilizations have collapsed and they recognize what's going wrong in the current society and say we have to do our best to mitigate this and we've seen this happen before.
2:36:21Joe RoganLet's course correct and let's sort of manage what we've got here now and maintain what we've got here now because it's pretty extraordinary. This is what we're hoping for with this election, this is what we're hoping for with the future, is that people can see we are on a bad path and something can be done right now.
2:36:41Joe RoganAnd it might be the only moment in history where this is possible. Because if they do lock the country down and make it so that voting is kind of bullshit, you're only voting for primaries.
2:36:50Joe RoganAnd the people that they put in the primaries, they're controlling that in the first place. You don't really have democracy anymore. You don't really have choice.
2:36:57Elon MuskExactly.
2:36:57Joe RoganYou don't really have freedom.
2:36:59Elon MuskThat's right. Yeah. I think freedom is fundamentally at stake in the election tomorrow. And we'll know. We'll know. I think we'll know by the end of day tomorrow. I don't think it's going to take.
2:37:08Elon MuskIt's not going to be like days after the election. I think we'll know tomorrow.
2:37:10Joe RoganAre you optimistic?
2:37:12Elon MuskI'm currently optimistic, but the biggest factor here is that men need to vote. That is the biggest issue. So I don't know what the reason is, but men just vote at a much lower rate than women.
2:37:28Joe RoganI think it's like 9%.
2:37:29Elon MuskRight.
2:37:30Joe RoganSomeone just told me that today.
2:37:32Elon MuskIt's a big difference. And I'm just like, saying this is a message to the men out there. Vote like your life depends on it. Because I think it does.
2:37:42Elon MuskVote. Vote tomorrow like your life depends on it. Nothing is more important.
2:37:46Joe RoganI agree. Listen, man, thank you for being here. I know you're busy as fuck, so I really appreciate your time. Again, I thank you so much for buying Twitter because I really do believe that you've changed the course of history.
2:37:58Joe RoganI really do think you've created a pathway where people can actually express themselves and actually exchange information that really didn't exist before. And I think it was dangerous.
2:38:11Elon MuskIt is dangerous. Hopefully I live long enough to see my kids grow up and people on Mars.
2:38:17Joe RoganThat'd be cool.
2:38:17Elon MuskThat's all I'm asking for here.
2:38:19Joe RoganI don't think that's too much to ask.
2:38:21Elon MuskYeah.
2:38:22Joe RoganThank you very much. Appreciate me on. Thank you. All right.