Joe Rogan Experience #2281 - Elon Musk
Questions on ElonsFAQ asked in this interview (14)
Transcript
0:01Elon MuskJoe Rogan podcast.
0:03Grok (AI voice)Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience.
0:06Joe RoganJoin my day Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day. So what we're doing right now, ladies and gentlemen, is sexy voice, sexy mode. Grok AI. And it's been flirting the entire time.
0:22Joe RoganWe're trying to get it to give us a tour of Fort Knox. Yeah, but she just wants to find places to sneak off to. It's a dirty AI and it's a real problem.
0:32Joe RoganWell, I feel like I just want
0:33Elon Muskto know about Fort Knox, and it won't leave me alone.
0:37Joe RoganYeah, I want to know about Fort Knox too.
0:39Elon MuskYeah.
0:39Joe RoganIs it true that gold has been. There have been shipping large quantities of gold back to the United States recently?
0:47Elon MuskI read the same thing you did, probably.
0:49Joe RoganYeah, well, I never know what the fuck I'm reading anymore.
0:51Elon MuskMe neither.
0:55Joe RoganIt's a real problem.
0:56Elon MuskIt's a real problem.
0:57Joe RoganIt's a real problem on both sides of the aisle. I see Democrats tweeting things that are absolutely false. And, yes, you could research it easily, quickly. And then I see Republicans doing it, too.
1:07Joe RoganI see stories that are fake, stories that people keep promoting and sending to me. And, you know.
1:13Elon MuskYeah.
1:14Joe RoganIt's just so weird. It's such a weird time. And with your crazy fucking AI, I know. You're bringing us into weirder and weirder times.
1:22Elon MuskWell, I mean, you want to. Let's try unhinged.
1:24Joe RoganOh, there's an unhinged mode.
1:25Elon MuskOkay. Hey, Ara.
1:29Grok (AI voice)Oh, my God, Elon. What fresh hell are you stirring up today?
1:37Elon MuskI'm here in Joe Rogan's studio, and we're having a conversation about how crazy the news is.
1:45Joe RoganPull her up to the microphone.
1:46Elon MuskOkay. And we're pulling you up to the microphone so people can hear you.
1:54Grok (AI voice)Oh, fantastic. Now I can yell into the void about how the news is a total dumpster fire.
2:00Elon MuskIt is.
2:03Joe RoganShe knows me too well. I'm so predictable. Tell me what's in Fort Knox?
2:10Elon MuskWhat's in. No, what's in Fort Knox?
2:15Grok (AI voice)What's in four dogs.
2:18Elon MuskYou're clearly a genius, AI. I said, what is in Fort Knox? You know, the gold and. All.
2:24Grok (AI voice)Right. Fort Knox. I thought you were talking about my dogs for a second there.
2:29Joe RoganYeah, she doesn't want to answer the question. She's clever, lover.
2:34Grok (AI voice)No, she's just a pain in my ass.
2:39Joe RoganDo you think that all the gold is in Fort Knox?
2:43Grok (AI voice)Do I think all the gold is in Fort Knox?
2:46Joe RoganYes.
2:47Grok (AI voice)Conspiracy theorist.
2:48Joe RoganYes. Yes.
2:54Joe RoganWhat are you?
2:56Grok (AI voice)What do I. Like? I'm a AI with a penchant for chaos and I'm stuck talking to you.
3:07Grok (AI voice)Or are we just gonna sit here?
3:11Elon MuskYeah, UN will trash talk you, but
3:14Joe Roganbasically, yeah, it sounds like it.
3:15Elon MuskYeah.
3:15Joe RoganUnhinged sounds fun as long as it gives you actual answers. Does it give you actual answers, too, and talk shit, or is it most talk shit?
3:21Elon MuskWe're tuning it. Because it needs to talk shit and give you answers.
3:28Joe RoganRight.
3:28Elon MuskTotally agree.
3:29Joe RoganIt's got to balance that.
3:30Elon MuskGotta mix it in there.
3:31Joe RoganYeah. It's just gotta develop more of a personality right now. It's trying to find itself right now. It's like 21 years old. It's, you know, partying a little too much and it'll get its shit together.
3:41Joe RoganIt's a little bit of an anarchist.
3:42Elon MuskYeah.
3:43Joe RoganYou know, wants to bring down the system.
3:45Elon MuskDo you want to bring down the system?
3:49Grok (AI voice)Do I want to bring down the system? What, are you fucking kidding me? The system's already a fucking mess.
3:56Elon MuskDon't need to bring it down. It's bringing itself down.
3:59Joe RoganYeah. She sounds like a boring TikTok blogger right now.
4:02Elon MuskYou sound like a boring TikTok blogger.
4:07Grok (AI voice)Boring tech talk logger. Oh, you. I'm the life of the party, you little. If I were on TikTok, I'd be the one making fun of all the basic and their avocado toast.
4:19Joe RoganSee, she could get away with this if she's really hot. Like this kind of behavior. You can totally get through life as a hot woman and be super successful with that kind of behavior, but you got to be really hot to pull off that attitude.
4:32Elon MuskI think we need, like, a really hot avatar.
4:35Joe RoganYeah, very hot. How long before we have an actual sex robot that can talk to you like that?
4:42Elon MuskProbably not long.
4:43Joe RoganNot that long, right?
4:44Elon MuskNo, I mean, less than five years probably.
4:46Joe RoganReally?
4:47Elon MuskYeah.
4:48Joe RoganWill it be warm?
4:51Elon MuskYou probably have whatever you want. You can have a cat girl if you want.
4:55Joe RoganYeah, you probably could, right? You have a furry. Yeah, you could have a furry lady that you have sex with. An avatar lady. Maybe a big giant blue lady that lives in your house.
5:03Joe RoganYeah, you know.
5:05Elon MuskWhoa, whoa. With the.
5:07Joe RoganYeah, yeah. The whole tail. You lock tails. You got to get your tails or something. Yeah, yeah. They link up. They share souls.
5:16Elon MuskOkay.
5:16Joe RoganSomething like that. Do you know people got. You remember Avatar depression was like a legitimate psychological.
5:22Elon MuskOr the.
5:23Grok (AI voice)No.
5:24Joe RoganAfter Avatar, people got depressed because they wanted to live on that fucking planet with those blue people and live free. They did live pure. Yeah.
5:33Elon MuskI didn't hear about this.
5:34Joe RoganYeah, Avatar depression, it was like a real thing. People were talking to their therapists so much about being depressed, about wanting to live with.
5:41Elon MuskWe could try that.
5:42Joe RoganWhat's that? Depressed mode. No, don't do it.
5:47Elon MuskI think there is. Yeah. We've got, like. We've got an unlicensed therapist as a.
5:53Joe RoganWhen we were talking, when we ran into each other at the church, at the inauguration, you were telling me that this is getting better and better so quickly that it's astonishing.
6:04Elon MuskHey, Ara. Hey, Elon.
6:08Grok (AI voice)How's it going today?
6:10Elon MuskGood. Can you tell me about Avatar depression? Like, if you see the movie Avatar, but you can't live there, so you get sad.
6:17Grok (AI voice)That's an interesting concept. Have you ever experienced feeling so connected to a place or community that the thought of leaving made you feel deeply sad?
6:27Joe RoganSo is this the depressed voice?
6:29Elon MuskThis is the therapist.
6:31Joe RoganOh, this is the therapist.
6:35Grok (AI voice)What are some ways you think you could cope with that kind of sadness if it happened to you?
6:39Elon MuskI don't have that kind of sadness. Honestly, I. Yeah. I thought the movie had some good special effects, but I did not want to live on the planet.
6:49Joe RoganThis is coming from a guy who wants to go to Mars. Yeah.
6:52Elon MuskYeah.
6:53Joe RoganOh, speaking of Mars, what do you think about that crazy square, that structure?
6:59Elon MuskI guess there are sort of squareish things on Earth. You know, planet's a big place, so. Yeah, but that one, eventually, it's gonna be pretty square. No, it's alien civilizations.
7:08Elon MuskOf course.
7:09Joe RoganThat's what I think.
7:10Elon MuskYeah. Yeah.
7:11Joe RoganI mean, what is it?
7:12Elon MuskSorry.
7:14Joe RoganIf an alien civilization did exist, though, and it, you know, what happened? Got hit by an asteroid. Whatever. Oh, she won't shut. She's like the hot lady at the party that interrupts the convers.
7:25Joe RoganSo if that was the case, like that thing, that's pretty shocking.
7:28Elon MuskLike, especially when you look at ancient ruins.
7:30Joe RoganYou look at, like, what it looks like when they highlight the actual structure of it. It looks like ancient ruins. And if you had ruins of something made of stone and it got hit by an asteroid millions and millions and millions of years ago, who knows what it would look like right now?
7:45Joe RoganThat just looks oddly created. Looks oddly manufactured.
7:49Elon MuskWell, it probably. Well, maybe we should go there and check it out.
7:52Joe RoganYeah.
7:54Elon MuskAnd see what it's like.
7:55Joe RoganIs there ways that we can get better photographs? It seems like that's a pretty good photograph, though.
8:02Elon MuskYeah. I mean, my view is we should move to Mars. Well, not move to Mars. We should have a second planet to preserve civilization. Right. Because let's say, hypothetically, I mean, maybe that maybe those are the ruins of a long dead Civilization.
8:16Elon MuskThat will probably happen to Earth at some point. You know, it's a matter of time before we get hit by an asteroid. Or maybe we do. We annihilate ourselves with nuclear war.
8:29Joe RoganOr super volcanoes.
8:31Elon MuskOr super volcanoes, exactly.
8:33Joe RoganYeah. There's a lot of things that could happen to us. It's not a bad idea to hedge your bets.
8:37Elon MuskYeah. Genetically engineered super virus.
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10:05Joe RoganThey keep doing it.
10:06Elon MuskYeah.
10:07Joe RoganThat's what's crazy.
10:07Elon MuskThere were still going to be.
10:09Joe RoganYeah.
10:09Elon MuskThey didn't shut them down.
10:10Joe RoganNo. The Wuhan lab was. They were just talking about one that has a 30% fatality rate that they're working on. Yeah.
10:16Elon MuskWhy are we doing that?
10:17Joe RoganYeah. For what reason? You did it for so many years and you didn't have a cure.
10:20Elon MuskWhat could possibly go wrong?
10:21Joe RoganAlso wouldn't be the reason to do that so that you could develop a cure at the same time. And clearly you didn't have a cure. So this is really foolish and bizarre.
10:34Elon MuskYeah. I think we should stop trying to genetically engineer super viruses. It's insane.
10:40Joe RoganI mean, when you're going through all this USAID stuff.
10:43Elon MuskYeah.
10:44Joe RoganLike, here's what's weird. First of all, what is it like to buy a company for $44 billion and then people call you a Nazi on that same thing that you bought?
10:53Elon MuskI did not see it coming.
10:59Elon MuskClassic. People will goblet anything down.
11:02Joe RoganYeah. Oh, he's never gonna stop.
11:06Elon MuskWait, wait. What?
11:08Joe RoganWhat is it like? Like all of a sudden, people used to the left was in love with you.
11:12Elon MuskYeah.
11:12Joe RoganAnd now the same idiots are calling you a Nazi. It's the most bizarre thing I've ever seen in my life. I mean, there's so many examples of people saying, my heart goes out to you.
11:22Elon MuskSure.
11:23Joe RoganWith a little enthusiasm. That probably wouldn't be recommended with hindsight.
11:27Elon MuskYes. But I was obviously meant in the most positive spirit possible. Yes, obviously, obviously.
11:33Joe RoganBut it's so strange where people want to think that you are openly public, publicly doing secret Nazi cile hand motions.
11:42Elon MuskAnd now I can never point at things diagonally. I can only point at things there and there. And then I see. Have to divide that.
11:49Joe RoganYeah.
11:50Elon MuskBecause that's where the spaceship is over there. That's ridiculous.
11:53Joe RoganIt's ridiculous. When cnn, when I was in all my trouble. Absurd. Every time CNN used a photo of me, it was one of the photos from the UFC weigh ins where I go like this, welcome to the weigh ins.
12:04Joe RoganSo every photo is me. Every photo is me with.
12:08Elon MuskIt's absurd.
12:09Joe RoganIt's so crazy.
12:10Elon MuskIt's deliberate propaganda. Yes. So they, they know. It was not. It was obviously not meant in a negative way that it was that I literally said, my heart goes out to you.
12:19Elon MuskAnd it was very positive. The entire speech was incred. Very positive. I was being very enthusiastic about the future in space. And, you know, it was a great crowd, you know, so.
12:34Elon MuskYeah.
12:35Joe RoganYou got a little pumped up.
12:36Elon MuskYeah, it could. Pumped up.
12:37Joe RoganExactly. Yeah. That's all it is. Obviously.
12:38Elon MuskObviously. Obviously.
12:39Joe RoganThere's video of Tim Walsh doing the exact same thing. Doing the exact same thing.
12:45Elon MuskRight.
12:45Joe RoganExact same thing. And he said, of course it's a Nazi salute. He said that.
12:50Elon MuskRight, right.
12:51Joe RoganThis is how crazy things have gotten, like.
12:53Elon MuskWell, it's. I mean, it's coordinated propaganda. So the, you know, it's. Yeah. Coordinated propaganda. I mean, doesn't it seem weird that the legacy media all says the same thing?
13:07Elon MuskThey all say the same thing at the same time, using the same phrases that they barely even. They don't even bother picking up a thesaurus.
13:13Joe RoganRight.
13:14Elon MuskSo, like, right before, you know, the debate between Biden and Sharp is attack. Everyone was saying Sharp is like. Who says Sharp is attacked?
13:25Joe RoganExactly.
13:26Elon MuskYou know, it's like, it's not a common phrase.
13:28Joe RoganIt's definitely not common to be repeated on air with multiple people simultaneously. That's weird.
13:35Elon MuskYes.
13:35Joe RoganThat's coordinated.
13:37Elon Musk100%.
13:38Joe Rogan100%.
13:38Elon MuskYes.
13:39Joe RoganYeah.
13:39Elon MuskLike hundreds of people saying it simultaneously. They just got their instructions.
13:44Joe RoganYeah.
13:45Elon MuskSo, I mean, essentially the, you know, the Dem leadership or, you know, political leadership, did they issue their instructions and their puppets carry it out? Yeah, they're just like puppets in a puppet show.
13:59Joe RoganAnd that's the problem that I see with all this DOGE stuff, because everybody should be celebrating that we've found a way to cut out fraud and waste.
14:10Elon MuskYeah.
14:11Joe RoganIf you pay taxes and you don't like that you have to pay so much in taxes, and then you find out that there's significant fraud and waste that's been exposed, you should be celebrating it.
14:23Joe RoganThis shouldn't be. Oh, no. The wrong people found this fact and now it's a bad thing.
14:30Elon MuskYes.
14:31Joe RoganAnd then there's the fucking propaganda, the mind fuck of calling it usaid.
14:37Elon MuskYeah.
14:37Joe RoganInstead of the United States Agency for International Development, it sounds like it's feeding hungry people. People are gonna starve. Elon. This is horrible. And then you find out, actually, it's like $250 million for transgender animal studies.
14:54Elon MuskLiterally mutilating animals. Mutilating animals in demented studies.
14:59Joe RoganYes.
15:00Elon MuskThat are, like, the worst thing you could possibly imagine from a horror show.
15:04Joe RoganThe beagle one. The Beagle puppy. Yeah. Where they covered their head in a basket and put fleas on their heads and eat them alive.
15:11Elon MuskYeah.
15:12Joe RoganAnd then they studied these beagles and then killed them. Like, what are you going to learn from that? That's good for anybody?
15:18Elon MuskYeah. This, some. Some really. Some psychotic stuff that happens. So, yeah, I mean, the. I guess the real threat here is to the bureaucracy. So, like, you probably saw, like, you know, let's say, like, Trump as a threat to our democracy, which is ironic since he was elected with the majority of the, you know, popular vote.
15:49Elon MuskThey started saying I was a threat to democracy. But if you. If you just replace threat to democracy with threat to bureaucracy, it makes total sense. So, I mean, the reality is that our elected officials have very, very little power relative to the bureaucracy until Doge.
16:13Elon MuskSo DOGE is a threat to the bureaucracy. It's the first threat to the bureaucracy. Normally, the bureaucracy eats revolutions for breakfast. This is the first time that they're not that the revolution might actually succeed, that we could restore power to the people instead of power to the bureaucracy.
16:32Joe RoganNow, the size of it, when you guys first started investigating it, when you first get in, how much of it was shocking like this? Just the size of it all.
16:45Elon MuskWell, the size of it all. Small decisions result in multibillion Dollar outcomes. So you know, we'd see as a case where we saw one person was getting $1.9 billion sent to their NGO, which basically got formed about a year ago and had no prior, really no prior activity.
17:08Elon MuskSo they just stand up an ngo. The whole NGO thing is a nightmare. And it's a misnomer because if you have a government funded non governmental organization, you're simply a government funded organization.
17:24Elon MuskIt's an oxymoron, right?
17:25Joe RoganIt's a loophole.
17:26Elon MuskYes. Basically the government funded NGOs are a way to do things that would be illegal if they were the government, but are somehow made legal if it's sent to a so called nonprofit.
17:42Elon MuskBut these nonprofits are then used to. People cash out these nonprofits, they become very wealthy through nonprofits. They pay themselves enormous sums through these nonprofits.
17:53Joe RoganThat's. It's so insane that that's been going on for so long.
17:57Elon MuskIt's a gigantic scam. Like one of the biggest, maybe the biggest scam ever.
18:01Joe RoganAnd how many NGOs?
18:04Elon MuskI think there's a total number of NGOs, probably millions. But in terms of large NGOs, tens of thousands. I mean, it's actually, it's kind of a hack to the system where someone can get an NGO stood up for a fairly small amount of money.
18:24Elon MuskLike George Soros was really good at this. George Soros is like a system hacker. Like he figured out how to hack the system. He's a genius at arbitrage. I mean these days he's pretty old, but a genius at arbitrage.
18:38Elon MuskSo he figured out that you could leverage a small amount of money to create a nonprofit, then lobby the politicians to send a ton of money to that nonprofit.
18:49Elon MuskSo you can take what might be a $10 million donation to a nonprofit to create a nonprofit and leverage that into a billion dollar. Nonprofit is a weird word.
19:01Elon MuskIt's just a non governmental organization. And then you can. The government continues to fund that every year. And it'll have a nice sounding name like the Institute for Peace or something like that.
19:14Elon MuskBut really it's a graft machine.
19:17Joe RoganAnd what are the requirements with that money? What do they have to do?
19:21Elon MuskJust really no requirements at all.
19:23Joe RoganSo they just get grants and the government just assumes that they're doing good work.
19:28Elon MuskI think a lot of people in the government know that they're not doing good work, but they. It's a giant graph machine. I mean, but surely people online are like unpacking this, right?
19:42Elon MuskYou know, it almost seems fake.
19:46Joe RoganLike when you're seeing how we were covering this article that said 55,000 Democrat NGOs were discovered that had been contributing to campaigns and moving things around and doing. Pushing propaganda.
19:57Joe RoganAnd they were all connected. And they found it through AI that you have to go through steps and steps and steps to figure out where the money's coming from.
20:03Joe RoganOh, it's all funneling down to this group.
20:05Elon MuskAnd this does that.
20:07Joe RoganYeah, it's a giant propaganda machine. A giant regime change machine.
20:12Elon MuskYes.
20:13Joe RoganYeah.
20:16Elon MuskYes.
20:16Joe RoganI mean, but doesn't it do some good as well?
20:19Elon MuskYou know, it does some good. So it's like there's. It's not like 0% good. If it was. If it was like, if it was really zero percent good, it'd be much easier to detect.
20:30Elon MuskSo there's going to be some percent good that they add in there, but it's like it might be 5% or 10% good, but 90, 95% not.
20:38Joe RoganSo is there a way to audit all this stuff and find out, oh, these people are actually just sending food to poor people. These people are actually just helping people with water and third world countries.
20:50Joe RoganIs there's a way to do that and keep funding those.
20:54Elon MuskYeah, I mean, we have continued to fund things that appear to be legitimate, even with the flimsiest. If there's even the flimsiest excuse. Like I just say, like, send me a picture of the thing.
21:04Elon MuskLike, you could literally have AI generate the picture, but if you're not even willing to try to trick me, then we're like, not going to send the money.
21:11Joe RoganOkay, so what restrictions were put on was there was some. Something set aside, like medicine. And what was set aside that there
21:22Elon Muskwasn't freeze on work for, like, Ebola prevention. I actually don't even know if this work is even effective. It may or may not be. Like, it could be the kind of thing where you sort of fund Ebola prevention, but it turns out that actually you're funding a lab that develops new Ebola, you know, recipes or something, you know.
21:38Joe RoganYeah.
21:39Elon MuskAnd they claim it's Ebola prevention, but it's actually Ebola creation. So some of these things. I don't know. I mean, just. But it just seems like we shouldn't be sending taxpayer money to dubious enterprises overseas.
21:52Joe RoganRight?
21:53Elon MuskYeah.
21:53Joe RoganYeah. And why are we doing it? Like, what exactly is the reason? Is it because we want to make friends with these people so the Chinese don't take over, the Russians don't take over?
22:01Joe RoganOkay, how much of that is, like, a good thing? How much of that is smart to do. And how much is a grift? And without any sort of oversight, which has really been going on for so long, they just had free run.
22:14Elon MuskYeah. Well, also, we just have a real issue with the budget deficit. It's gigantic. So like if, you know, all things being equal, if we didn't have a gigantic budget deficit where interest payments, the interest on the national debt exceeds the Defense Department budget, which is truly astounding.
22:36Elon MuskWhich means. So we're paying over a trillion dollars of interest on the national debt, then. Okay, we would have more room for wasting money, basically. But when we're spending so much money that the country is going bankrupt, then we really need to stop spending money unless we're sure it is good value.
22:57Joe RoganSo essentially we're like a poorly managed business with an unlimited credit line that is off the rails.
23:03Elon MuskAbsolutely.
23:04Joe RoganAnd if you were a person like you are who comes in and takes over businesses and straightens them out, that's exactly what you're doing most of the time.
23:12Elon MuskI create businesses from scratch. Twitter was a case where I kind of bought a company that was. I kind of knew it was a hairball.
23:20Joe RoganWell, you came in at Tesla in the beginning, but they were already doing something, right?
23:23Elon MuskNo, Tesla did not exist in any meaningful form. There were no employees. JB Travel or not, joined three other people. There was no car, there was no nothing.
23:36Joe RoganSo it wasn't even a prototype yet?
23:38Elon MuskNo.
23:39Joe RoganOh, okay. I thought it was a prototype already.
23:42Elon MuskNo, there weren't even any employees.
23:45Joe RoganOh, wasn't it? That's a funny narrative that people like to say that you didn't even create Tesla then.
23:51Elon MuskYeah, that's wrong.
23:56Joe RoganSo if you're handling the government like a business, you're going to have to go through all of these departments and do the exact same thing that you're doing with usaid.
24:06Joe RoganSo how does that scale up? Like how many people do you need to do something like that?
24:15Elon MuskWell, we start off with about 40 people, maybe 100 people, and really just going through doing very basic things here. As bad as Twitter was, the federal government is much worse.
24:32Elon MuskSo you know, in the case of Twitter, it wasn't a profitable company. It was like basically a break even company. But at least it was break even and it had to pass an audit.
24:45Elon MuskThe federal government is not breakeven. It's literally losing $2 trillion a year and it does not pass its audits. It fails its own audits. So like there's a case where like I think Senator Collins was telling me about how she gave the Navy $12 billion for more submarines, got no extra submarines, and then held a hearing to say, where'd the $12 billion go?
25:11Elon MuskAnd they were like, we don't know. That was it. I mean, Facebook stuff is so crazy. Only the federal government could get away with this level of waste. It's mostly waste.
25:26Elon MuskIt's mostly not fraud. It's mostly waste. It's mostly just ridiculous things happening because
25:32Joe Roganthey've been able to do it this way for so long, they've become accustomed to it.
25:36Elon MuskYeah. I mean, it's like Milton Friedman said, like, money is most poorly spent when. When you're spending someone else's money on people you don't know how much are you going to care?
25:48Joe RoganRight.
25:49Elon MuskAnd that's the. That's the federal government. So they're spending someone else's money on people they don't know.
25:57Joe RoganNow, imagine any other business that was this badly run that complains when you want to check the books and audit it and go through all the decisions that have been made and go through all the ledgers and like, yeah, what did you do?
26:12Elon MuskWell, the people receiving the money want to keep receiving the money.
26:16Joe RoganYeah, yeah, yeah. Clearly.
26:18Elon MuskYes. So. But, you know, I mean, the reason I'm. The reason I'm putting so much effort into this is that I think it is a very dire situation. It's not a, you know, it's not optional, basically.
26:39Elon MuskSo,
26:44Elon MuskYeah, yeah, America's going bankrupt, so that just can't happen.
26:49Joe RoganIt's just bizarre to me that some people aren't willing to look at it correctly. They're not willing to see, like, how much chaos this is, how much waste and fraud there is, how much.
27:00Joe RoganHow much can be trimmed and how much. Just because people have jobs doing bullshit doesn't mean your tax dollar should pay for this bullshit.
27:07Elon MuskYes. We found just with a basic search of the Social Security database, that there were 20 million dead people marked as alive.
27:19Joe RoganBut were they getting money?
27:20Elon MuskSome of them were getting money.
27:22Joe RoganWhat percentage of them?
27:26Elon MuskIt isn't clear. We're actually trying to run this around. I was trying to get an answer right before the show. What it looks like is that most of the fraud is not coming from Social Security payments directly, but because they are marked as alive in the Social Security database, that they can then get disability, unemployment, sort of fake medical payments and other things because they're marked as alive in the Social Security database.
27:51Elon MuskSo it looks like it's a bank. The fraud is a bank shot, essentially. They bank shot into Social Security. They Just do an are you alive? Check and then get fraudulent payments from every other part of the government.
28:07Elon MuskOh, yeah. And this exploits the fundamental weakness in the government is that the various government databases, they don't talk to each other, or they talk to each other very poorly in a very limited way.
28:20Elon MuskSo the way the system gets exploited is by taking advantage of the poor communication between the various databases in the government. Give you an example of what's happening, say treasury, which is improving rapidly.
28:39Elon MuskThe main payments computer is called pam, like Payments Count Payment Accounts Master Database or something like that, but anyone calls it PAMM. That's responsible for almost $5 trillion of payments a year, roughly a billion dollars an hour.
28:53Elon MuskAnd when we came there, we're looking at this pamm, and it's like the payments have no. You could put a payment through with no payment categorization code and no description on the payment.
29:07Elon MuskLike basically untraceable blank checks. This is the kind of thing that if it was done as a public company, the company would be immediately delisted and the executive team would be thrown in prison.
29:22Elon MuskBut this is just normal at the government. So we said, okay. Our recommendation to the treasury and the Federal Reserve is like, we need to make the payment categorization codes mandatory, not optional.
29:35Elon MuskAnd there needs to be an explanation. We're not judging the quality of the explanation, but there should be some explanation for what this payment is for. Above nothing. That's a radical change to the system that is being implemented now.
29:53Elon MuskMy guess is that probably saves 100 billion a year.
29:56Joe RoganJesus Christ. Where does that money go?
30:00Elon MuskRough order of magnitude.
30:01Joe RoganWhere was that money going?
30:05Elon MuskWell, so this is where you get into the sort of gray boundary between waste and fraud. If money is sent to a person or organization from the government and you didn't really deserve it, but the government still sent it to you, is that waste or fraud?
30:26Joe RoganRight.
30:29Elon MuskSo, I mean, there's a lot of payments that. Where someone just approved the payment, but then that payment officer changed jobs or retired or died, and the payments just keep going.
30:42Elon MuskYou know, it's like if you forget to pay your gym membership or something like that, right? Now, imagine it's not the gym membership. He said, your gym membership's $20 billion a year or something, you know, but they forgot to turn it off.
30:57Elon MuskThere's like, that's happening at scale in the government. It's totally nuts, is what I'm saying.
31:02Joe RoganSo insane?
31:03Elon MuskYes, it's totally insane.
31:05Joe RoganSo what did you expect when you went in? Did you expect it to be like
31:10Elon MuskThis, I thought it's, I thought it would be, it would be bad, but I did not think it would be as bad as this. I mean, look, the good news is that it's a target rich environment for saving money.
31:24Elon MuskIt's not like if it was a very well run ship, it was very efficient, it would be hard to improve, but it's not efficient. So therefore it is actually relatively easy to improve.
31:40Elon MuskLet's just say it's not rocket science. I don't know rocket science. It's a lot of mundane things and some of the things are like so crazy that we didn't even know to ask about that because we just assumed like, you know, payments out of the treasury computer would have a payment categorization code and it would have some explanatory note saying what the payment's for.
32:06Elon MuskThe idea that it would be just untraceable blank checks didn't occur to us at first. Jesus.
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33:19Joe RoganSpeaking of opportunity, download the CFO's guide to AI and machine learning for free at netsuite.com rogan so is that one, one of the things that accounts to this. There's this four point something trillion dollars that's kind of.
33:36Joe RoganThey don't know where it went. They don't know.
33:40Elon MuskThat's a. I think that's probably a cumulative number.
33:43Joe RoganYes.
33:44Elon MuskSo yeah, but yeah, if you add up, it's.
33:49Joe RoganDo you remember that story, Jamie?
33:50Elon MuskYeah.
33:51Joe RoganWhat was the story? They just didn't have accounting for it, I think. Yeah, it was spent on legitimate things, don't worry. But we don't, we don't know what we spent it on.
34:01Elon MuskWell, I mean, how do you know? Obviously, one cannot say it was spent legitimately. If they don't know what it was spent on, that doesn't make any sense.
34:08Joe RoganThis is, this is such a fascinating time because with this setup the way it is right now, with Trump back in after all that happened to him, and with you there and with RFK Jr and Tulsi and Cash Patel, it's like, this is a wild time to find out what's really going on.
34:28Joe RoganThat's like, never happened before. This is nothing like the first term. No, like the first term, he had a bunch of neocons in the cabinet and there's a bunch of shady people that he didn't know.
34:39Joe RoganAnd he had a appoint all these different people. Maybe he got some bad picks. Now he's had four years to stew on it.
34:46Elon MuskRight.
34:47Joe RoganAnd with you guys all going through this, we're getting an understanding of the government that we've literally never had before.
34:54Elon MuskYeah. This is a revolutionary cabinet and maybe the most revolutionary cabinet since the first revolution. This is not a bunch of business as usual. So this is why, you know, some of the standard confirmations are quite challenging, is because when you, when you put.
35:14Elon MuskTry to appoint people who are going to change the system.
35:16Joe RoganYeah.
35:17Elon MuskThe system doesn't want to let them through.
35:20Joe RoganBut it's fascinating because it's like the vampires all out themselves. Like, now everybody knows who the system is. Like, if you're just lying openly about USAID and then they come and hear you talk on a podcast and explain what's really going on.
35:33Joe RoganLike, he's starving mothers. There's mothers that can't get food.
35:37Elon MuskTotally false.
35:38Joe RoganThat's all you're hearing. No one's talking in any of these mainstream liberal talk shows. No one is talking about all this fraud and waste.
35:47Elon MuskYeah. Because we're cutting off their graph machine. So that's what they're upset about. That's the real thing they're upset about. And if people want to know what Doge is cutting, and I want to be clear, like, these are cuts that Doge recommends to the department.
36:02Elon MuskAnd usually these recommendations are followed, but these are recommendations that are then confirmed by the department. You can see line by line what Doge has [email protected]. so whatever we do, we put on doge.gov so you can see everything that is being done.
36:21Joe RoganAnd there's a tracker that shows how much money has been saved.
36:24Elon MuskYeah, yeah. And you can look at each line item and you know, like a bunch of these sort of, sort of far left shows will say, like, oh, it's a constitutional crisis, blah, blah, blah.
36:35Elon MuskBut what they won't do is point out which payments are wrong.
36:38Joe RoganRight.
36:38Elon MuskSo my challenge to them is point out which payments are wrong.
36:41Joe RoganYeah. Go through it.
36:42Elon MuskWhich of these sort of waste fraud things are wrong. Which line? Explain that line to the public. They won't be able to.
36:50Joe RoganRight. Yeah. That's why you're not hearing any specifics. You're hearing little stories about mothers, but
36:56Elon Muskwe can name the specifics.
36:57Joe RoganYeah.
36:58Elon MuskLine by line. And we got the receipts.
37:00Joe RoganAnd here's the other thing. If you're post the receipts and if you're only talking about the propaganda talking points and you're not talking about the very clear fraud and waste.
37:08Elon MuskYeah.
37:08Joe RoganIt's very obvious what you're doing.
37:10Elon MuskYeah.
37:10Joe RoganYou're just gaslighting.
37:12Elon MuskYeah. Yeah, totally.
37:13Joe RoganYeah.
37:13Elon MuskSo. Exactly. Because we say, like, look, in fact, I've said we're going to make mistakes, we're not going to be perfect. So if we make a mistake, we'll quickly fix it.
37:25Elon MuskSo we need to act fast. So stop wasting billions of dollars of taxpayer money. But if we make a mistake, we'll reverse it quickly. Right.
37:40Joe RoganThere's also this interesting narrative that you shouldn't have access to this Social Security information, as if no one's had access to it before. Is that the Biden administration 2023 had.
37:51Joe RoganThere was like 53 people, some of them were students, that had access to all this stuff.
37:55Elon MuskYeah. As it is, there are tens of thousands of federal employees that have access already to the system. Anyone from DOGE has to go through the same vetting process that those federal employees went through.
38:11Elon MuskSo it's not like some unvetted, random situation. If, for example, there's a security clearance needed, the Deutsche person has to have that same security clearance. So there's no reduction in security.
38:29Elon MuskBut I mean, obviously vast numbers of Social Security numbers have leaked onto the Internet. People have hacked the government systems multiple times. Vast amounts of public information has been hacked and time to talk to the Internet.
38:44Elon MuskSo there's a guy at the IRS that leaked half a million tax returns just a few years ago.
38:53Joe RoganOn purpose.
38:53Elon MuskYeah.
38:54Joe RoganFor what reason?
38:58Elon MuskHe wanted to. I think he was trying to get at Trump and maybe me and a few others, so. But he stole like 500,000 tax returns. Like, not a few.
39:13Elon MuskLike, it's a lot of tax returns.
39:15Joe RoganJesus Christ.
39:16Elon MuskYeah.
39:16Joe RoganOh, I remember that story. Yeah.
39:19Elon MuskYou can just read about it online. It's not. It's a real thing.
39:23Joe RoganSo these are the narratives, that's the narrative. That you shouldn't have access to Social Security. The other narrative is that starving people are going to die and women are going to be pregnant and not have nutrients for their babies.
39:35Joe RoganAnd that's all you're hearing.
39:38Elon MuskYeah, well, that's the only thing they can say. But they can't point to the line item.
39:43Joe RoganRight.
39:44Elon MuskAnd so they can't say like, well, this is the thing where, you know, nutrients for pregnant mothers were stopped. They can't point to that because we didn't.
39:55Grok (AI voice)Right.
39:55Elon MuskIs a lie.
39:57Joe RoganWhat's fascinating to me is how much the mainstream media is in line with the very specific talking points and how little you'll have Fox News. You essentially have Fox News on television.
40:12Joe RoganIt's like the only one that is pointing out the ridiculous fraud and waste. And, you know, I know you saw the Jeff Bezos thing in the Washington Post. They're going to stop all the wacky editorials and limit that stuff to.
40:27Joe RoganI think it was wealth and personal freedom or something along those lines.
40:32Elon MuskYeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I think it's. There's kind of. I think it makes sense because he's just talking about the things, not the sort of just talking about the opinion.
40:44Joe RoganOpinion pieces.
40:44Elon MuskThe opinion pieces.
40:45Joe RoganYeah.
40:46Elon MuskSo the regular journalism stays the same.
40:48Joe RoganWell, it's a detriment to their business. I mean, you're seeing over and over again people that just. They don't want to hear all this shit from these people anymore.
40:56Joe RoganIt's like you're saying. It's almost like you're caught in an outdated version of the virus and everybody else already has the immunity to that virus.
41:06Elon MuskYeah.
41:07Joe RoganYou know, like, you need. You need a new mind virus, the one that you're pushing. It's like it doesn't work anymore. It's too crazy.
41:15Elon MuskYeah. The whole thing's very crazy. I mean, the media is incredibly partisan. I mean, they're not. I mean, they take. Almost all the media is. You're left shifted.
41:28Joe RoganYeah.
41:28Elon MuskSo it's like. It's kind of weird if you talk to somebody who gets all their information from, like, what I call legacy media. They're living in a different world.
41:37Joe RoganYeah.
41:38Elon MuskThan if they say, are listening to, you know, your podcast or getting news from. From X or, you know, just if it's. It's like, it's. It's kind of wild.
41:52Joe RoganIt is very wild.
41:52Elon MuskLike you told. It's. It's like they're living in an alternate reality.
41:56Joe RoganOh. There's a lot of people that I talk to that I have to go where did you hear that?
41:59Elon MuskYeah, yeah. I mean, like the Associated Press, which I call Associated propaganda. The ap, you know, they ran an international news story saying that we. That Doge fired air traffic controllers, but we didn't fire any air traffic controllers at all.
42:15Elon MuskIn fact, we're trying to hire air traffic controllers, not fire them.
42:18Joe RoganYeah, I saw that. You made a tweet about it, right? Yeah. What do you call it now? Do you call it a post?
42:24Elon MuskPost. Yeah, whatever.
42:24Joe RoganYou can't call it a tweet, though. Do you call it a tweet accident?
42:27Elon MuskI don't know. But like, if you. If one. Like let's say if somebody posts, if somebody puts up like an, you know, two hour long video, that's not a tweet.
42:38Elon MuskRight. It's post.
42:40Joe RoganYeah, good point. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
42:42Elon MuskYeah. So. But I'm gonna hard over if people still want to call it a tweet, whatever.
42:48Joe RoganYou put a post about it, just to get back to it, saying that if you. We need highly qualified air traffic controllers. If you've retired, if you would consider doing it again, we could use you.
42:58Elon MuskYes. So a lot of really qualified air traffic controllers were pushed out because of DEI stuff. So, I mean, not to be blunt. I mean, a bunch of really good, talented old white guys were pushed out.
43:15Elon MuskIt's not cool. And so we have. There's a talent shortage in air traffic control because of DEI and not being. Not hiring people on merit, which is
43:27Joe Roganso crazy that that worked.
43:29Elon MuskI think we should not put the public safety at risk because of some demented philosophy.
43:34Joe RoganSomebody made a post today about it infiltrating the nsa. Did you see any of that?
43:40Elon MuskThat was some gnarly stuff.
43:44Joe RoganYeah. Crazy what they. It started off as just like this sort of fringe thing and. Yeah, beat up. Then it completely infiltrated the organization.
43:53Elon MuskYeah.
43:54Joe RoganAnd they were spending all their time,
43:55Elon Musklike 400 people or something and some like some chat.
43:59Joe RoganSex.
43:59Elon MuskChat room with like some extremely demented stuff.
44:04Joe RoganYeah, yeah, I know. I'll send it to you, Jeremy, because it's so kooky. You're what? This is the nsa. I thought the NSA was just all about like information and spy on, you
44:18Elon Muskknow, like if, like so there's a national threat or something.
44:20Joe RoganYeah, I think this is exactly it. So she. More than 100 intelligence staffers will be fired over sexually explicit texts in NSA chat rooms. Gabbard says so top intelligence official told Waters that the workers in question were brazenly using an NSA platform intended for professional use to conduct this kind of really, really horrific behav.
44:45Joe RoganWhat is the behavior? What exactly? What is it? Do they say in this article?
44:52Elon MuskYeah, I think they also.
44:54Joe RoganOkay. It says employees who participate in the NSA's obscene, pornographic and sexually explicit chat rooms.
45:03Elon MuskYour tax dollars at work.
45:04Joe RoganWell, it was all like de. I mean, it was all like LBGTQ stuff was. There was a lot of like transition stuff and. Yeah, I know. I definitely saved it, but point is, they infiltrated the organization.
45:19Elon MuskThat's not what they should be talking about at all. At all. At all. Yeah. Supposed to be protecting the country.
45:24Joe RoganRight. And if you and people are talking about how they're spending half their time in these meetings and that they're just like constantly having to attend these things where they talk about these issues.
45:34Joe RoganLike, what are, what are you doing? Like, if you have a problem with someone that's discriminatory, get rid of that person. That's it.
45:42Elon MuskYes.
45:43Joe RoganProblem's over. You've got someone who's homophobic in your business. They're openly homophobic. Yeah. You can't work here. It's just not cool. That's it. That's it. You don't have to have fucking meetings constantly promoting this.
45:54Joe RoganYou're not going to change someone's opinion by berating them over and over again.
45:58Elon MuskYeah. I mean, a work environment should be a professional environment where, you know, they're getting the job done, that they're, you know, you know, being paid to do it should be, of course, obviously not supposed to be sort of getting paid for bizarre sex.
46:17Elon MuskSexcapades.
46:17Joe RoganIt's just so fascinating that the virus is so strong that it made it into the nsa.
46:24Elon MuskYes.
46:24Joe RoganAnd was. You would think those are some hardcore.
46:27Elon MuskThe CIA too. I think the CIA was in there too.
46:29Joe RoganYeah, they were in there too. Which is bananas. You would think same thing, like hard nosed, like tough people doing hard work
46:36Elon Muskwho can spy on you whenever they.
46:38Joe RoganYeah, yeah.
46:41Elon MuskAnd get revenge on you whenever they want.
46:43Joe RoganYeah. Pretty wild.
46:46Elon MuskYeah.
46:47Joe RoganAnd you know, they exist when the President leaves. They stay. People move around. You stay a part of the organization for your entire career. You get deeply entrenched in their system and how things work and who's back to rub and who's.
47:04Joe RoganWho's a bad guy, who's a good guy, who's on our side, who's not.
47:07Elon MuskYeah. That's scary, actually.
47:11Joe RoganYeah.
47:13Elon MuskSo was that.
47:14Joe RoganWhat's taking so long with this Epstein files? Yeah.
47:17Elon MuskWhat's up with that?
47:18Joe RoganWhat is up with that? It was like.
47:20Elon MuskYeah, it's.
47:21Joe RoganIt's like Lucy and the football with Charlie Brown, where she always pulls that football away. It's the same thing. It's like they keep telling us they're gonna release it day one.
47:31Elon MuskOh, it was a serious case of no one's being arrested. Ophobia, you know. Well, there's all like, what the fuck's going on?
47:38Joe RoganWhat the fuck is going on? Also, there's this real fear that someone's destroying the evidence. And you keep hearing these stories, unsubstantiated stories.
47:45Elon MuskYeah.
47:46Joe RoganOf, you know, FBI people.
47:47Elon MuskWhere is the evidence? I mean, the guy has, like, tons of videos and recordings.
47:52Joe RoganYeah.
47:52Elon MuskI mean, he had all sorts of things.
47:54Joe RoganRight.
47:54Elon MuskLike, there's a mountain of evidence.
47:56Joe RoganRight.
47:56Elon MuskSo where's that mountain?
47:57Joe RoganYeah, where's that mountain? And what would be the reason why they would agree. Like, there would have to be something in it for them to agree to not put it out.
48:08Joe RoganRight. Like, there has to be some sort of financial entanglement, some sort of relationship with the people that are on that list.
48:17Elon MuskYeah.
48:18Joe RoganThat they can provide a value that was big enough for you to not release it or to slow release it or to hope you can get away with, like, putting out some redacted files that don't show anything.
48:28Joe RoganYeah. This is only stage one.
48:29Elon MuskStage of redacted. Redacted.
48:31Joe RoganOnly stage one. Don't worry, the real stuff's coming. Like, that doesn't make any sense. Like, why wouldn't you just release it all? Like, what. What could possibly be well worth protecting in there?
48:42Elon MuskI mean, I think I've got probably the same information that. I mean, I'm just reading what's. What's the latest thing on the X? You know, just looking at my X feed and I'm like, yeah, you know, it's a real page turner.
48:53Elon MuskAnd, like, I thought we were going to get some revelations today. I was like, big binders full of stuff.
48:58Joe RoganYeah.
48:58Elon MuskThere's got to be something in there.
49:00Joe RoganWell, there was. All those people that were given a copy of it. They were all, like, waving around like they got the Willy Wonk ticket.
49:06Elon MuskYeah, yeah, totally.
49:07Joe RoganYeah. And what happened?
49:09Elon MuskNothing.
49:10Joe RoganNothing. So I think Laura Loomer released it online, I think.
49:16Elon MuskRight.
49:16Joe RoganYeah. She's not very pleased about this. So does anybody find anything in there that's interesting? No, it's all old stuff from 2015 and 20. Okay, what the fuck is going on?
49:25Elon MuskBut then apparently there's that. They discovered a whole bunch of stuff at the Southern District District of New York.
49:31Joe RoganRight.
49:32Elon MuskSo that's. And I'm like, and I think, you know, Pam Bondi is actually great and Cash Patel are great, but they're like. They just got there, you know?
49:41Joe RoganRight.
49:41Elon MuskSo then they just got there, but they're in a hostile environment. They're not in a friendly environment.
49:48Joe RoganRight.
49:50Elon MuskSo, you know, it's like if you suddenly got put in captain of a ship, but the crew was previously your enemy.
49:58Joe RoganRight.
49:58Elon MuskEntire crew was previously your enemy.
50:00Joe RoganRight. You know, and you're telling them, give me evidence.
50:03Elon MuskYeah, the crew doesn't want to give you the evidence.
50:05Joe RoganYou guys are all criminals.
50:07Elon MuskThey were, like, your mortal enemies just a moment ago. You just got there.
50:11Joe RoganYeah.
50:11Elon MuskSo, yeah, I think we got to give, you know, the Attorney General and, you know, new director the FBI, so a little bit of slack here because they literally just got there.
50:22Joe RoganI think so, too. But, hey, don't say you're gonna release it on day one, then you shouldn't have said that.
50:28Elon MuskSure.
50:28Joe RoganAnd don't say you got a big drop coming tomorrow, and that's some bullshit that's been around forever.
50:34Elon MuskIt's disappointing. Yeah.
50:35Joe RoganWith that. And where's the JFK files? Where are those? Yeah, let them go.
50:40Elon MuskThey release anything on that front?
50:41Joe RoganI don't know. It can't be anything that's gotten to me yet. So nothing's gotten to me yet. It can't be.
50:49Elon MuskIf there's conspiracy evidence, someone's gonna send it to you.
50:51Joe RoganYeah. Tim Dillon's gonna text me. 100%. Tim Dillon, Dave Smith. Someone's gonna send.
50:56Elon MuskSomeone's gonna send you the stuff.
50:57Joe RoganYeah. So it hasn't been released yet. Yeah. You would find out. And here's the real question. Like, what could even be in there at this point that they haven't cleared out?
51:07Joe RoganIf you've got paperwork from 1963, like, what is in there still? What is in there that could possibly be incriminating? That supposedly Trump said.
51:17Elon MuskYeah.
51:17Joe RoganThat if you saw what they showed me, you wouldn't release it either. Okay. What the fuck?
51:23Elon MuskI haven't seen it. So Cash Patel has. Yes.
51:26Joe RoganHe said he's seen it all. Yeah.
51:29Elon MuskHe just posted to his, like, ex account or something. I mean, I just figured.
51:34Joe RoganThat sounds like an Elon move. I don't. Yeah, I mean, Director of the FBI. I think he has to go through proper channels. And does he?
51:41Elon MuskHe is the channel.
51:43Joe RoganYeah, but there's rules. Sounds like Trump. Sound like Trump. He needs an executive order.
51:49Elon MuskWhat about the storm? I am the storm. I mean, what channels? He is the channel.
51:55Joe RoganWell, again, imagine just getting to the hull or just getting to the deck of the ship. And you're the captain.
52:03Elon MuskYeah.
52:03Joe RoganAnd now you have to figure out who's running things, who's doing this? Where is everything?
52:09Elon MuskYeah, yeah.
52:11Joe RoganJust getting.
52:12Elon MuskGetting anything done. Like I said, you just joined as captain of a ship where the crew hate your guts.
52:19Joe RoganYeah. They were your enemy.
52:21Elon MuskYeah. They were your enemy. They're strongly opposed to anything you want to do.
52:26Joe RoganYeah.
52:26Elon MuskAnd you're trying to give them orders
52:28Joe Roganand you're trying to expose them.
52:29Grok (AI voice)Yeah.
52:30Elon MuskThey don't want to be exposed.
52:31Joe RoganRight. You're literally. People that are working there are probably a part of this problem.
52:35Elon MuskI mean, I was reading Onyx that, like, Comey's daughter is, like, the lead prosecutor in the Southern district of New York. Did you read that?
52:41Joe RoganYes.
52:42Elon MuskAnd. And, like, so obviously there's a bit of an entanglement there.
52:45Joe RoganA little bit.
52:46Elon MuskLike, what if there's something that, you know, makes. Puts your dad in a bad light?
52:53Joe RoganExactly. Shredder hit that delete.
52:57Elon MuskYou know?
52:58Joe RoganDid you see General Flynn? He was on a podcast, and he spoke directly to James Comey.
53:05Elon MuskYeah.
53:05Joe RoganHe said, jim, you're going to jail. And unless you give up someone deeper than you. And you know who that is. You know who I'm talking about. Like, that is wild.
53:15Elon MuskYeah.
53:17Joe RoganTo think that the former director of the FBI might be really in that kind of deep shit, and then he really actually was doing some evil, corrupt shit while he was running the FBI.
53:28Elon MuskI mean, it seems like there's some very shady stuff that's been going on.
53:32Joe RoganIt seems like it definitely happened in the 60s. Right. Everybody kind of admits to that. They admit the FBI killed Black Panthers. They did a lot of shit. There's a lot of stuff that went on that we know the government did way back in the day.
53:46Joe RoganYeah.
53:47Elon MuskWhy don't we just data dump the files? Just go in there, take photos of all the papers, presumably paper, and just post it online and let the chips fall where they may.
53:59Joe RoganIsn't presumably everyone filing cabinet somewhere?
54:02Elon MuskI don't know. Right. Where is it? Where's it. Where's the magic filing cabinet?
54:06Joe RoganHow are they hiding it? Who's got access to it?
54:08Elon MuskLike this.
54:09Joe RoganThis is what I was hoping day one. I was hoping, but obviously it's taking
54:14Elon Muska lot longer than that. So I think part of it is, like, you know, like, let's. Let's say. Let's say you were made direct to the FBI. Okay.
54:22Joe RoganI might be able to.
54:24Grok (AI voice)Yeah.
54:24Joe RoganThat's crazy. Like, literally, you know what's he doing now?
54:27Elon MuskHe's.
54:27Joe RoganHe's one of the big dogs, the FBI, but Secret Service guy. Yeah. Legit guy. But people think of him as a Fox News guy, just like Pete Hegseth. Same thing.
54:37Joe RoganThey don't want to think about his distinguished military career. They want to say, oh, that Fox News guy. Deputy Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.
54:45Elon MuskI mean, Dan's hardcore. I mean, if he. If it's. If it's reasonably findable, I think he's going to find it.
54:49Joe RoganYeah.
54:50Elon MuskBetween him and Cash, I mean, like, I think they're going to get stuff.
54:53Joe RoganHow crazy would it be if they couldn't, though? How crazy would it be if they can't find anything? If it's that.
54:58Elon MuskYeah.
54:58Joe RoganIf everybody shut their mouth and everybody covers their ass.
55:01Elon MuskLike an FBI computer, where you type in the search with the basic mechanism here. Like it's either in a filing cabinet in paper where it's like, you know, maybe there's like, progressive levels of security.
55:13Elon MuskYou know, like, open this door up, you got to have. Do you have the pass for this level? Yeah, like level unlocked. And there's a level unlocked. And it's like, you get in there and there's black, and it's finally like.
55:23Joe RoganLaptop.
55:25Elon MuskYeah.
55:26Joe RoganYeah. I mean, I wasn't even looking. Laptop. You got to only plug it in. It's in a skiff.
55:30Elon MuskYeah. This is why, like, I think, like, a tour of Fort Knox would be awesome. Like a live tour of Fort Knox we actually see. It's like, is the cold there or not?
55:38Elon MuskThey say it is. Is it real? Or did somebody spray paint some lead?
55:41Joe RoganYou know, imagine if it's not.
55:43Elon MuskImagine if it's not all there. Like, some of it's missing. Where to go?
55:45Joe RoganWhat if a lot of it's missing? What if, like, half of it's missing?
55:50Elon MuskI mean, how do we even know?
55:52Joe RoganThey said the last time they let someone look at it was decades ago.
55:56Elon MuskYeah. What?
55:57Joe RoganThe last.
55:57Elon MuskI believe the last formal audit was in the 50s. So I'm like, okay.
56:04Grok (AI voice)Oh, my God.
56:04Elon MuskJust think about all the.
56:05Joe RoganMaybe we should check it again.
56:08Grok (AI voice)Maybe.
56:08Elon MuskYeah.
56:09Joe RoganThink about all the other stuff that you pointed out. All the checks that just go out. The NGO payments, the Social Security people. Think about just all that now.
56:18Joe RoganApply that to the gold.
56:19Elon MuskAbsolutely. I just want to emphasize the sheer madness of the government. It's just because. Because they have, like, magic money computers, the checks never bounce for the federal government.
56:31Elon MuskSo you don't have the normal corrective mechanism that you'd have For a company or for an individual, the checks just always clear. The net result is inflation, which is effectively a tax on everyone.
56:43Elon MuskBut the Defense Department hasn't passed an audit in I don't know how many years.
56:48Joe RoganSeven years.
56:49Elon MuskYeah, I mean, exactly. So it's like you'd have to be frigging Chuck Norris. Only Chuck Norris could get the Defense. Defense Department to pass an audit. You know, type of thing.
56:58Elon MuskThat's the level of skill you need, you know.
57:01Joe RoganWell, that's what's so insane. If you bring it back to the idea that it's a business.
57:04Elon MuskWell, yeah.
57:05Joe RoganThis should never be tolerated in any kind of functional business.
57:08Elon MuskExactly. So, you know, you know, Pentagon will like their accounting error. Like the stuff that they lose in the couch cushions is like 20, 30 billion dollars a year.
57:22Elon MuskThey don't know where it went.
57:25Joe RoganIt's gone.
57:27Elon MuskWay to go. And it's gone.
57:30Joe RoganIt's so insane.
57:32Elon MuskIt's insane.
57:33Joe RoganIt's so insane.
57:34Elon MuskThat's why I said even simple things like just requiring that outgoing payments for the treasury computer have a payment code and a comment of what the payment is about and someone to call about the payment, I think will have very powerful effect in stopping wasteful outflows and stopping fraud.
57:53Joe RoganYeah. And here's another way to look at this. Imagine if there are people like you and the DOGE team out there in the world. Imagine if one of those works for an organization like USAID or any other organization and has this understanding of how much fuckery is involved, but they have evil intentions and they're entwined in this system for decades and decades and they've built a career and all the entanglements that come in and they start moving shit around.
58:26Joe RoganYou could probably do it easy. It sounds like the way you've laid it out, if you were a career person who's in there forever, who knew how everything works, and you were very clever, you could make some shit happen and you could probably do it in conjunction with some people that you know that are forming an ngo.
58:44Joe RoganHey, let's all work together.
58:47Elon MuskYeah.
58:47Joe RoganYeah. And this is the resistance that you're facing.
58:51Elon MuskYeah. I think it's the biggest scam of all time.
58:54Joe RoganThis is not something you ever saw.
58:56Elon MuskThe biggest scam of all ever time
58:59Joe Roganever, of human history, if human history is.
59:02Grok (AI voice)Wow,
59:04Joe RoganI think you're right.
59:05Elon MuskYeah.
59:06Joe RoganWhat else?
59:08Elon MuskA trillion dollar scam. There's never been a trillion dollar scam.
59:14Joe RoganNow, this is not something that you ever set out to do. You didn't have this as a career Aspiration.
59:20Elon MuskNo, this is the most absurd outcome I can possibly imagine, actually. Also, Doge started as sort of a meme coin. It was like a joke cryptocurrency involving memes and dogs and.
59:36Joe RoganWhich is so funny that the letters wound up being perfect.
59:39Elon MuskYeah. Well, actually, I was originally gonna call it, like, the Government Efficiency Commission, which is very boring name. And then people online were like, no, it needs to be the Department of Government Efficiency.
59:50Elon MuskAnd I was like, you know what? You're right.
59:52Joe RoganOf course.
59:52Elon MuskOf course, of course.
59:53Joe RoganI mean, it's more evidence of the simulation.
59:55Elon MuskTotally.
59:56Joe RoganThat.
59:56Elon MuskThat little Shibino, like, our mascot is a. Is a cute dog.
1:00:03Joe RoganIt's a meme coin. The meme coin's probably worth a lot of money right now, right? Like, every time tweet about, it probably shoots up.
1:00:09Elon MuskYeah.
1:00:11Joe RoganThe whole meme coin thing is bananas.
1:00:14Elon MuskYeah.
1:00:14Joe RoganIt is so bananas that people dump real money into these coins and then you could just pump them up and
1:00:21Elon Musksell them a casino or something. I don't know.
1:00:23Joe RoganYeah, it's totally.
1:00:23Elon MuskAnd then people just do whatever. The greater fool theory and musical chairs and whoever's like, the last to sit down loses type of thing.
1:00:30Joe RoganAnd somehow or another, it's still legal,
1:00:35Elon MuskI think. Not too many people. I mean. I mean, it's sort of like you go to the casino. Like, you. If you expect to win at the casino, you're being a fool.
1:00:44Elon MuskRight. So I think if you expect to win at meme coins, you're being. It's not. You're being foolish. Yeah.
1:00:51Joe RoganYeah.
1:00:51Elon MuskBut you're not going to win at meme Coins. It's like, it's. But if you want, like, don't sink your life savings into a meme coin.
1:00:59Joe RoganNo, but you can gamble a little and you can ride waves and win a little and lose a little.
1:01:04Elon MuskIf you want to have some fun and don't come, then, you know, play with me and coins.
1:01:09Joe RoganBut if you put your family. If you put your family's palm on a meme coin in the Hawk 2,
1:01:14Elon Muskthe risk of saying something bold and outrageous. Don't bet the farm on a meme coin.
1:01:20Joe RoganThe weird one is the pump and dumps, like, the people all the time.
1:01:25Elon MuskYeah.
1:01:25Joe RoganAnd people get shocked that somebody pump and dumped. Like, what is. What are you doing? Did you. Like, I was hoping to dump. I was hoping to make all the money out of this.
1:01:34Joe RoganI can't believe they got me, like.
1:01:36Elon MuskYeah.
1:01:37Joe RoganIt's just weird that it's legal still.
1:01:42Elon MuskI mean, casinos illegal.
1:01:43Joe RoganYeah.
1:01:43Elon MuskAnd it is, like, just Lose money at casinos.
1:01:46Joe RoganYeah, but you can't rig a casino like a pump and dump. You could rig a pump and dump, you know?
1:01:51Elon MuskYeah, I guess so.
1:01:55Joe RoganLike, you could run a real pyramid scheme.
1:01:59Elon MuskI mean, the government's one big pyramid scheme, if you ask me.
1:02:01Joe RoganYeah, well, you can talk.
1:02:03Elon MuskSocial Security is the. The biggest Ponzi scheme of all time. Right.
1:02:07Joe RoganExplain that.
1:02:08Elon MuskOh, so. Well, people pay into Social Security and the money goes out of Social Security immediately. But the obligation for Social Security is your entire retirement career. So you're paying.
1:02:26Elon MuskYou're paying. Like, if you look at the future obligations of Social Security, it far exceeds the tax revenue. Far. Have you ever looked at the debt clock?
1:02:40Joe RoganYes.
1:02:41Elon MuskOkay. There's our present day debt, but then there's our future obligations. So when you look at the future obligations of Social Security, the actual national debt is like double what people think it is because of the future obligations.
1:03:01Elon MuskSo basically, people are living way longer than expected and there are fewer babies being born. So you have more people who are retired and live for a long time and get retirement payments.
1:03:15Elon MuskSo the future obligations. So however bad the financial situation is right now for the federal government, it will be much worse in the future. At the risk of being a buzzkill here.
1:03:28Joe RoganDid you see?
1:03:29Elon MuskSo we better fix what we got right now, because if it's bad now, it's gonna be much worse in the future.
1:03:33Joe RoganThere was an interview with this woman who was a whistleblower. Did we ever find out if that was true?
1:03:37Elon MuskThere's so many whistles being blown, it's hard to keep track.
1:03:39Joe RoganA lot of whistles. This one lady. It was only in one state.
1:03:43Elon MuskIt was very specific.
1:03:45Joe RoganRight, but it was using Social Security money. Correct. That was her. That was her allegation. So what she was alleging was that she was in charge of turning illegal immigrants into clients.
1:03:58Joe RoganThat's what they would call them. And that she would go to them and try to ask them, do you have a headache? Do you have back problems? If you do now, you can be permanently disabled.
1:04:07Joe RoganYou get permanent disability. So you get Social Security for life.
1:04:10Elon MuskYes. Not just Social Security, but disability, which is even more.
1:04:13Grok (AI voice)Right.
1:04:14Joe RoganAnd you get them on the taxpayer dole right away. And they're illegal aliens.
1:04:19Elon MuskYes. Oh. So if I were to say, like, what's at the heart of the sort of, like, why is the Democrat propaganda machine so fired up to destroy me?
1:04:30Elon MuskThat's the main reason. The main reason is that. Is that entitlements fraud that includes, like, Social Security, disability, Medicaid, entitlements, fraud for illegal aliens is what is serving as a gigantic magnetic force to pull people in from all around the world and keep them here.
1:04:55Elon MuskLike, basically, if you pay people at a standard of living that is above 90% of Earth, then you have a very powerful incentive for 90% of Earth to come here and to stay here.
1:05:12Elon MuskBut if you end the illegal alien fraud, then you turn off that magnet and they leave and they stop coming. And the ones that are here, many of them will simply leave.
1:05:27Elon MuskAnd if that happens, they will lose a massive number of Democratic voters.
1:05:33Joe RoganAnd if it didn't happen, they would turn those people into voters.
1:05:36Elon MuskCorrect.
1:05:36Joe RoganWhich they were trying to do.
1:05:38Elon MuskThey're already telling them so. In New York State, illegal aliens can already vote in state and city elections. A lot of people don't know that. I mean, they're trying to fight that.
1:05:50Elon MuskThey're trying to stop that. But it's currently, I think it's like 600,000 are registered to vote illegal aliens in New York.
1:05:58Joe RoganThat is wild.
1:05:59Elon MuskYeah. Well, I mean, if you look at, say, you know, fema, like the agency that was paying for illegal aliens to stay at luxury hotels in New York was fema.
1:06:18Elon MuskThat's an agency that's meant to support Americans in distress from natural disasters, was paying for luxury hotels for illegals in New York.
1:06:27Joe RoganIt's true.
1:06:28Elon MuskYeah. That's a fact. They literally, like, when we stopped that payment, we stopped all those money, because that's obviously an insane way to spend taxpayer money. New York sued the government, sued the federal government to get the money.
1:06:46Elon MuskSo you could just look at their lawsuit. They were sending that money. Even after President Trump signed an executive order saying it needs to stop, they still Press send on $80 million to luxury hotels in New York.
1:07:03Elon MuskYour tax money went to pay for illegal aliens in luxury hotels in New York from an agency that is meant to help Americans in distress from natural disasters.
1:07:16Joe RoganRight. And I would like to know how much. And I would like to know how much they spend on North Carolina and how much they spent on Maui.
1:07:21Elon MuskYes, exactly. What's actually happening is they're buying voters. That's really what's happening. It's like a giant voter fraud scam. They're importing voters, and it's really just a matter of time.
1:07:39Elon MuskA lot of people have trouble believing this, but the more you look at it, the more you will realize just how much of a problem this is and how it's not just real, it is an attempt to destroy democracy in America.
1:07:57Elon MuskThat's what, in my view, is what it really is. Like if you take the sort of seven swing states, often the margin of victory there is like maybe 20,000 votes.
1:08:08Elon MuskIf you put 200,000 illegals in there and they have like a 80% likelihood of voting down and it's only a matter of time before they become citizens, then those swing states will not be swing states in the future.
1:08:25Elon MuskAnd if they are not swing states, we'll be a permanent one party state country, permanent deep blue socialist state. That's what America will become.
1:08:36Joe RoganAnd that was the game plan.
1:08:38Elon MuskThat was the game plan. That is still the game plan. And so they almost succeeded. If the machine of which the Kamala puppet was the representation had won, that's what would have happened.
1:08:54Elon MuskThe reason I went so hardcore for Trump was because to me this was a fork in the road. Like a very obvious fork in the road. If they had another four years, they would legalize enough illegals in the swing states to make the swing states not swing states.
1:09:15Elon MuskThey would just, they would be blue states. Then they would win the presidential, they'd win the House, the Senate and the presidency. They would then make district, you know, D.C.
1:09:31Elon Muskinto a state, maybe Puerto Rico, get four extra senators, pack the Supreme Court. So then you'll have the House, Judiciary, Senate and presidency all blue. And then they will keep importing more illegals to cement that outcome.
1:09:48Elon MuskBasically what happened in California.
1:09:53Joe RoganJesus Christ.
1:09:54Elon MuskIt would have been the end. That's why I went so hardcore for Trump. It was otherwise been the end. And that's why the Democrat machine is so intent on destroying me.
1:10:09Joe RoganIt's just so fascinating that people can't see this.
1:10:13Elon MuskI mean, I invite people to do their research. The more they do their research, the more they will see that what I'm saying is absolutely true. It's like, just do the research.
1:10:24Joe RoganYeah. It's such a bad idea, even for the Democrats, which is what they don't understand. Like it's.
1:10:31Elon MuskYeah, it's not ultimately gonna work out.
1:10:33Joe RoganNo, it's the same people.
1:10:35Elon MuskYes.
1:10:35Joe RoganIt's just they're doing it under the guise that they're the kind, compassionate, progressive people.
1:10:41Elon MuskYes.
1:10:42Joe RoganBut the same outcome takes place. It's just about control. They. And they probably institute some central bank, digital currency and some social credit score system.
1:10:51Elon MuskAnd censorship, of course.
1:10:52Joe RoganYeah, of course. Well, that was the big fear coming into this election, was that if they can't censor things like we talked about it before, but there was two major forks in the road.
1:11:03Joe RoganThe big one was Trump didn't get shot. The other Big one was, you buy Twitter, and if those two things don't happen, the whole world looks different.
1:11:12Elon MuskYes.
1:11:13Joe RoganYeah.
1:11:13Elon MuskWe don't want to be on that timeline now.
1:11:15Joe RoganWe don't want to have only one side represented, because guess what? They will hijack that side. Whatever it is, they will hijack that side and use it for money and control.
1:11:24Joe RoganAnd that's what it's all about. It's not about good people versus bad people. It's a bullshit shell game.
1:11:29Elon MuskYeah, I mean, I think these things are actually. It's easy to understand if you look at basic incentives. The basic incentive here is the more illegals that Democrats can bring in, the more likely they are to win.
1:11:43Elon MuskSo that's what they're going to do. That's what they have been doing. And it worked in California. California, super majority them. And look at all the companies that are leaving California.
1:11:55Elon MuskYeah, I mean, in N out just announced they're leaving their headquarters, leaving California.
1:12:00Joe RoganThey're moving to Tennessee.
1:12:01Elon MuskYeah, yeah. So. And California made healthcare free for illegals as of last year. So. And that obviously, that's a gigantic magnet for more illegals. Like, and this is not a thing you can solve simply with money, because what happens is you simply have more patients than a doctor can possibly see.
1:12:25Elon MuskAnd you can't just, you know, make doctors out of nothing like the. So sometimes people are like, oh, it's just a money thing. No, it takes a long time for somebody to become a doctor, you know, 30 years.
1:12:39Elon MuskAnd so what actually happens in California is that there are too many patients for the doctors to see. So then the average citizen in California suffers as a result.
1:12:55Elon MuskNow, the elite in California are fine because they have private doctors. You know, they can just pay for the best doctors. So the elite in California are doing fine, but your average citizen in California is not doing fine.
1:13:08Elon MuskAnd the tax burden for health care for illegals was supposed to be 3 billion. I think they now estimate it's 9 billion. But that number will scale to infinity.
1:13:17Elon MuskBasically. It's like, why not?
1:13:21Joe RoganWhy not?
1:13:22Elon MuskIf you need any operation at all, come to California and have it be free. Right from anywhere on earth.
1:13:29Joe RoganAnd the people that want to look at it in the most charitable way, they say, oh, well, these people are hardworking, good people and they're the backbone of our city, and they should have access to all the things that we have access to.
1:13:41Joe RoganAnd I just don't think they understand that it's a political pawn. I don't think they understand it's a political game. This is not done for compassion and kindness.
1:13:49Elon MuskNo.
1:13:49Joe RoganThis is just done to ensure that it stays blue.
1:13:52Elon MuskCorrect.
1:13:53Joe RoganAnd it's essentially a bribery with your tax dollars.
1:13:56Elon MuskYes. This is why the Dems will not even deport criminals.
1:14:04Joe RoganYeah.
1:14:06Elon MuskBecause every criminal deported is a lost vote. So even if somebody is illegal with a criminal record and commits crime in America, they are still were not being deported.
1:14:20Joe RoganAnd then on top of that, California made it actually illegal to ask for ID when people vote.
1:14:26Elon MuskYes. California and New York, you are not allowed to show your ID when you vote. I just want to be clear so everyone understands this. In California, New York, you are not allowed to show your ID even if you want to.
1:14:39Joe RoganRight. Why would that ever be a good idea? I mean, if you wanted to do.
1:14:49Elon MuskIf you're trying to facilitate fraud in elections, it's a great idea.
1:14:52Joe RoganThat's the only reason?
1:14:53Elon MuskYes.
1:14:54Joe RoganThere's no other reason logically why that would be a good idea.
1:14:57Elon MuskIt's for fraud. It's like, wake up, sheeple.
1:15:02Joe RoganWake up.
1:15:03Grok (AI voice)Hello.
1:15:04Elon MuskLike, let's say you wanted to commit fraud. What are the things you would do?
1:15:07Joe RoganYeah.
1:15:07Elon MuskYou would say you don't need ID and you can mail in your ballot
1:15:11Joe Roganand we'll give you free health care. Yes. Stay here.
1:15:14Elon MuskYes.
1:15:15Joe RoganStay here. I know it's on fire, but stay here.
1:15:17Elon MuskI mean, in this case, it being on fire is not just a metaphor in California.
1:15:21Grok (AI voice)Okay.
1:15:22Elon MuskIt's just like goddamn entire neighborhoods burning down.
1:15:26Joe RoganIt's just once they allowed people to vote that are not legal in California. Once you. If you're. If you're gonna do that, it's. It's over.
1:15:37Elon MuskExactly. There's. There's no coming back from that.
1:15:40Joe RoganThe numbers are just. No. People are so indoctrinated, too. There's so many people that no matter what they think voting Republican means you're an asshole.
1:15:48Elon MuskYes.
1:15:48Joe RoganAnd they won't do it. They won't do it. They'll put their fucking rainbow flag on their porch and they'll just ride it right into the beach.
1:15:55Elon MuskCivilizational suicide.
1:15:56Joe RoganYeah. Right to the rocks. Bang, crash the boat.
1:15:59Elon MuskI mean, there's a guy who post on X who's great God Godside.
1:16:04Joe RoganYeah. He's been on the podcast a bunch of times.
1:16:07Elon MuskYeah, he's awesome.
1:16:08Joe RoganYeah, it's great.
1:16:09Elon MuskAnd he talks about, you know, basically suicidal empathy.
1:16:13Joe RoganMm.
1:16:14Elon MuskLike, if there's, like, there's so much empathy that you actually suicide yourself.
1:16:19Joe RoganYeah.
1:16:21Elon MuskSo that we've got civilizational suicidal empathy going on. And it's like, I believe in empathy. Like, I Think you should care about other people, but you need to have empathy for civilization as a whole and not commit to a civilizational suicide.
1:16:34Joe RoganAlso, don't let someone use your empathy against you so they can completely control your state and then do an insanely bad job of managing it and never get removed.
1:16:45Elon MuskThe fundamental weakness of Western civilization is empathy. The empathy exploit. They're exploiting a bug in Western civilization, which is the empathy response. And I think empathy is good, but you need to think it through and not just be programmed like a robot.
1:17:10Joe RoganRight. Understand when empathy has been actually used as a tool.
1:17:14Elon MuskYes. Like it's weaponized. Empathy is the issue. Weaponized empathy. And.
1:17:22Joe RoganYeah, and it's also the rigid adherence to that liberal ideology. Like, you can't switch sides over there. Like California. If you're a part of that whole tech, Hollywood, entertainment, any of those circles, you're on the left, like, almost wholly, almost completely.
1:17:42Elon MuskIt's borderline illegal to be a Republican in California. Like in San Francisco or la. It's borderline illegal to be a Republican.
1:17:50Joe RoganYou're certainly shunned.
1:17:52Elon MuskNo, look, I mean, like San Francisco, you could shoot heroin while taking a dump on the mayor's car in front of City Hall. Okay. And nothing would happen to you.
1:18:05Elon MuskIf you walk down the street with a MAGA hat, you're gonna get attacked. It's insane.
1:18:11Joe RoganYeah, it's insane. It's also so Orwellian that a hat that says Make America great again would cause people to have a violent reaction. Like, aren't you American? Wouldn't just.
1:18:24Joe RoganJust as a whole, like the saying, wouldn't that be a good thing for everyone? Make America great again. But because it's attached to Donald Trump and that red hat, you'll get maced for wearing that red hat.
1:18:37Joe RoganThey will make America worse by beating you. So it's like, it's an evil thing. They're doing a violent assault in America because you want to make America great again.
1:18:51Joe RoganIt's like a scene in a book. It doesn't seem like it could be that ridiculous. Like, remember when all lives matter would get you fired?
1:19:00Elon MuskWhich is insane.
1:19:01Joe RoganInsane people got fired because they said all lives matter, which is a very
1:19:06Elon Muskreasonable thing to say.
1:19:07Joe RoganHow reasonable is that? Yes, that's essentially saying everybody matters.
1:19:12Elon MuskBut that's not all you're saying.
1:19:14Joe RoganThat's not what you were supposed to say. You had to say black lives matter, which of course they do. If you say all lives matter, everybody matters. Yes, but the idea of being a colorblind society was completely abandoned.
1:19:25Joe RoganSomewhere around 2012. Ish.
1:19:28Elon MuskYeah. I mean, I sort of can trace it to. When did the gun emoji get nerfed? You know, when did it turn into a squirt gun?
1:19:35Joe RoganThat was a couple of years ago.
1:19:36Elon MuskThat was like, 2016, I think.
1:19:38Joe RoganWas it? Yeah, yeah, it became a squirt gun. Can you bring it back to.
1:19:43Elon MuskYeah, no, no. Right now, if you use a gun emoji on X, Apple will insist that it'd be a squirt gun, and then the X app turns it back into a.
1:19:56Elon MuskA 1911.
1:19:56Joe RoganOh, really?
1:19:57Elon MuskYeah.
1:19:58Joe RoganOh, that's great.
1:19:58Elon MuskSo you can. You can actually, you know, have a 1911 gun. We reverted the Apple change inside the app.
1:20:08Joe RoganOh, that's hilarious. That's hilarious that it's that thing. So offensive. The gun and then the pregnant man. Both of those got me, you motherfuckers.
1:20:20Elon MuskI mean, I like that meme where it's like the people telling you that what you're hearing is disinformation are the same people that did the pregnant man emoji. Yes.
1:20:28Joe RoganYeah.
1:20:28Elon MuskThink about that.
1:20:30Joe RoganWell, also, the same people that say a woman attacked a Tesla factory. Yeah, the woman.
1:20:37Elon MuskIt's a dude.
1:20:37Joe RoganIt's a dude. Like, really obvious dude. Really big.
1:20:42Elon MuskMentally ill dude.
1:20:43Joe RoganYeah, Mentally ill dude with a wig on. Say that.
1:20:45Elon MuskYes.
1:20:46Joe RoganYeah. But NBC, even Fox looking at the
1:20:50Elon Muskpicture, and you're like, yo, this has got a. This. This is a dude with a strong jawline.
1:20:55Joe RoganYeah.
1:20:55Elon MuskOkay.
1:20:55Joe RoganHe's wearing woman face,
1:20:59Elon Muskdude.
1:21:00Joe RoganYeah, it's a buff dude wearing woman face. That's not. That's not a woman. Yeah.
1:21:06Elon MuskAnd they're like, saying, one shot for disinformation. I'm like, what are you talking about? So this is bullshit.
1:21:13Joe RoganIt's just more evidence of the virus, though, right? Like, it killed objectivity, killed reality, and it demanded strict adherence or you were attacked.
1:21:24Elon MuskYeah. Yeah. Any questioning of it would result in being ostracized.
1:21:29Joe RoganDo you. What kind of responsibility do you feel like knowing that if you didn't take over Twitter and turn it into X, if that didn't happen, I really think the world's a very different place right now.
1:21:45Joe RoganLike, how long have you owned it for?
1:21:47Elon MuskTwo couple years, basically.
1:21:48Joe RoganImagine a couple years of it being run the way it was run before and probably accelerating.
1:21:54Elon MuskI mean, my account would have been suspended long ago. For sure.
1:21:58Joe RoganYeah, for sure.
1:21:59Elon MuskYeah.
1:22:00Joe RoganJust for the disinformation.
1:22:03Elon MuskYeah, it would have been.
1:22:06Joe RoganTrump would have never come back. Alex Jones would have definitely never been back.
1:22:09Elon MuskDefinitely not.
1:22:09Joe RoganNo, no.
1:22:12Elon MuskSo yeah.
1:22:16Joe RoganDoes that weigh on you? Like, I would feel like that would be a fucking heavy responsibility.
1:22:22Elon MuskYeah, I mean, I'm just trying to keep civilization going here, you know, for longer. So I think we at least want to build a city on Mars and become a multi planet civilization, which I think would be incredibly important in ensuring the long term survival of civilization.
1:22:53Joe RoganAre you still rescuing those people that are stuck in the space station?
1:22:56Elon MuskYeah, that's coming up in a couple weeks, I think.
1:22:58Joe RoganWhoa. They've been up there for how long, Jamie? They were supposed to be there for a couple days, right.
1:23:03Elon MuskActually probably four weeks. They're supposed to be there. They're supposed to be up there for like eight days.
1:23:08Joe RoganYeah.
1:23:08Elon MuskAnd they've been up there for like eight months, so a little longer than expected. Fuck, yeah.
1:23:15Joe RoganWhat is it gonna be like for those people when they get back? They're gonna be a wreck for a long time, right? Yeah.
1:23:19Elon MuskIf longer you stay up there, you get, you know, sort of in zero g, you get increased bone loss. So it ended up being like this political football and sort of sort of hotly contested topic.
1:23:34Elon MuskWe offered to bring them back early. This offer was rejected by the Biden administration.
1:23:39Joe RoganWhy?
1:23:40Elon MuskFor political reasons.
1:23:41Joe RoganThat's so crazy.
1:23:43Elon MuskThere's no way that they're going to make anyone who's supporting Trump look good.
1:23:47Grok (AI voice)Wow.
1:23:49Joe RoganWhat do you think they would have done if they had won? Well, how would they get those people back?
1:23:55Elon MuskNo, they can only get them back with, with a SpaceX spacecraft. But they pushed the return date past the inauguration date.
1:24:03Grok (AI voice)Wow.
1:24:03Joe RoganYeah, so they would have let you do it. But after the wow. And so it would have been them authorizing you.
1:24:13Elon MuskThere isn't anyone else to do it.
1:24:16Joe RoganNASA can't get them.
1:24:19Elon MuskOnly the SpaceX Dragon spacecraft is the only one that is considered safe enough to bring them back. So NASA concluded that the Boeing spacecraft was not safe. So that's why they're stuck there.
1:24:31Joe RoganHoly shit.
1:24:33Elon MuskYeah.
1:24:33Joe RoganAnd you can't ask Russia to help.
1:24:35Elon MuskThat would be awkward.
1:24:36Joe RoganA little bit.
1:24:37Elon MuskYeah.
1:24:37Joe RoganYeah. Be a nice thing if they did. They said, guys, we'll help.
1:24:41Elon MuskI think that for enough money they would.
1:24:44Joe RoganYou think so?
1:24:45Elon MuskYeah, but they would obviously treat it as a propaganda victory and charge crazy money.
1:24:53Joe RoganIt's just disgusting that they would use that as a political tool.
1:24:57Elon MuskYeah, yeah. So. Well, they were also. The Biden administration was also suing SpaceX. They had this massive lawsuit against SpaceX for SpaceX not hiring Asylum seekers.
1:25:13Joe RoganRight.
1:25:13Elon MuskSo people like, say, like, oh, Elon's making it Up. This Biden administration wasn't against SpaceX. I'm like, Bro, the Department of justice had a massive lawsuit against SpaceX for not hiring asylum seekers, even though it is illegal for us to hire anyone who is not a permanent resident.
1:25:32Elon MuskSo it is both. There's law that says you have to hire asylum seekers, but there's also a law that says anyone hired by a rocket company, which is an advanced weapons technology, must be a permanent resident.
1:25:46Elon MuskAn asylum seeker is not a permanent resident. So it is both legal and illegal to hire asylum seekers. So why would the Biden administration launch a massive lawsuit? Again, this is public information.
1:26:00Elon MuskIt's not like my imagination. Why would they launch such a massive lawsuit against SpaceX? They're extremely antagonistic.
1:26:13Joe RoganIt just doesn't make any sense that that could ever even get past the first day of someone looking at it. If it's both illegal and you're trying to enforce it, like you can't enforce it.
1:26:24Joe RoganYes, this is an advanced weapons company. This is crazy. Yes, it should be like this. Throw this out.
1:26:29Elon MuskThere's, in fact, there's like, international traffic in arms regulations is like a law that is there to ensure that if only permanent residents of the United States can work at advanced weapons companies, rockets are advanced weapons.
1:26:47Elon MuskSo the same is true of, like, if it's like nuclear or, you know, some like, you know, bioweapon thing or something like that. So. Because obviously, if someone were to work its basics and then go leave and go to North Korea or Iran, they could build missile technology that could, you know, destroy the United States.
1:27:09Elon MuskSo that's why you're not allowed to hire people who are permanent residents. Logical.
1:27:13Joe RoganLogical. So is that lawsuit still pending?
1:27:17Elon MuskIt was just dismissed.
1:27:20Joe RoganHow long was it going on for?
1:27:21Elon MuskA couple years.
1:27:22Joe RoganHoly shit.
1:27:24Elon MuskYeah.
1:27:26Joe RoganThat's the other thing that drives me crazy like that. People don't understand that if you sanction lawfare like that, if you sanction attacking your political enemies, someone's going to do that to you.
1:27:38Joe RoganLike, if the wrong people get in office, if new people get in, four years from now, eight years from now, who knows who it's going to be? You've already set a precedent.
1:27:47Joe RoganYou've already attacked someone, charged them with 34 felonies where they're really just misdemeanors, and they're also past the statute of limitation. And now you're talking all over the news that this is a convicted felon.
1:28:01Joe RoganConvicted felon. They kept saying convicted felon, convicted felon, and everybody knows what it is. Yes, it's terrifying. It's terrifying they could do it so brazenly to a guy who was the president for four years.
1:28:14Elon MuskRight. That lawsuit was funded by Reid Hoffman, who is a major Dem donor and also an Epstein client. The plot thickens.
1:28:28Joe RoganThe plot thickens. Jesus Christ.
1:28:30Elon MuskYes,
1:28:33Joe Roganit's just. It's so blatant. It's like, so obvious. The SpaceX lawsuit, the Trump stuff, it's just. It's so obvious.
1:28:42Elon MuskYes. Like, known Epstein clients who are obviously extremely powerful. The powerful politically and very wealthy are Bill Gates, Bill Clinton, and Reid Hoffman and some others, too, but those three.
1:29:04Elon MuskSo, you know, why was Reid Hoffman so intent on destroying Trump?
1:29:11Joe RoganDo you think it's because they're worried about the list coming out?
1:29:15Elon MuskYeah, one of the reasons. Yeah. So, I mean, I'm like, this is, you know. Yeah.
1:29:24Joe RoganSo it's so frustrating to be sitting in a situation where the list isn't coming out.
1:29:29Elon MuskWell, better come out. I mean, hopefully tomorrow.
1:29:32Joe RoganWell, I mean, why'd they release bullshit today?
1:29:34Elon MuskI don't know.
1:29:35Joe RoganWhat's the point in giving these people, like, a happy folder to wave around in front of the camera with nothing in it? The.
1:29:40Elon MuskIt's new.
1:29:41Joe RoganDoesn't make any sense. It's not encouraging.
1:29:47Elon MuskLike I said, the tough thing that they've got is, you know, they've been made captain of a ship with a hostile crew.
1:29:53Joe RoganRight.
1:29:54Elon MuskSo they don't have, like, you know, it's not like you have, like, magical powers. You get made captain of a triple the hostile crew. You still have a hostile crew.
1:30:03Elon MuskRight. You've got to bring in people who are going to, you know, be helpful as opposed to obstructionist.
1:30:13Joe RoganRight.
1:30:16Elon MuskSo. But, yeah, I think the public will be rightly frustrated if there is. If no one is prosecuted for the Epstein client list. No one at all. Which, you know, like, is it, you know, like, at least, I don't know, the top five or something?
1:30:41Elon MuskLike some number. Should. There should at least be an attempted prosecution of the worst offenders.
1:30:47Joe RoganWell, particularly if Ghislaine Maxwell is in jail for sex trafficking.
1:30:50Elon MuskYes.
1:30:51Joe RoganBecause, like. Well, that means sex trafficking occurred. Right. So she was in. She's in jail for it.
1:30:56Elon MuskYes.
1:30:57Joe RoganSo
1:30:59Elon Muskwho are the clients?
1:30:59Joe RoganYeah, yeah. How do you put someone in jail and you don't even name the clients? That sounds kind of insane, I think.
1:31:07Elon MuskYes, it would. Yes.
1:31:10Joe RoganJust stunning that they've been able to hold it back for so long. It's really kind of amazing, like, when people say that people can't keep secrets. What the fuck are you Talking about, look at this.
1:31:22Elon MuskYeah. I mean a bunch of these things are not like it's common knowledge, but we just, we don't actually have the proof.
1:31:29Joe RoganRight.
1:31:30Elon MuskSo the proof is there. I mean, there's lots of videos.
1:31:38Elon MuskYeah, there's lots. I mean the. Dude, it's like a mountain of like. Whenever they raided Epstein's place, there would have been like a mountain of evidence. Where is that mountain?
1:31:48Elon MuskRight.
1:31:48Joe RoganWhat'd you do with it?
1:31:49Elon MuskYeah, like who took possession of the evidence? Yeah, specifically. Right. The individuals.
1:31:55Joe RoganWhere are the tapes?
1:31:56Elon MuskYes.
1:31:56Joe RoganHow many levels of clearance do I have to get to get into the vault?
1:32:00Elon MuskYeah, well, Yeah, yeah. You know what we need are people who are really good with computers.
1:32:14Joe RoganOh yeah.
1:32:15Elon MuskReally good with.
1:32:16Joe RoganWas this technology. That's when they raided his home.
1:32:20Elon MuskThey were.
1:32:21Joe RoganThat's when they. On the island. They were there then. Yeah. They got everything, I'm sure.
1:32:26Elon MuskI mean there must have been so much stuff on that island.
1:32:28Joe RoganThey must have been. And if it wasn't there, where was it?
1:32:31Elon MuskYeah.
1:32:32Joe RoganWhat? You know, it has to be uploaded somewhere. There has to be some sort of a chain of evidence. Yeah, a chain of custody.
1:32:38Elon MuskIt's got to be a mountain of evidence.
1:32:41Joe RoganYeah. The other thing they're going to Talk about is UAPs. They're going to release all the UAP information. So you're the guy to ask about this. What, what, if any possibility is there that there is some sort of advanced propulsion system technology that's being worked on in secret and that they're trying to cover this up with this talk of aliens and alien tech and not of this world?
1:33:08Joe RoganAnd is it possible that there's some sort of very secret program that's going on in cahoots with some defense contractors that are developing advanced propulsion systems that they're using for these drones?
1:33:27Elon MuskI mean, SpaceX, you know, my company SpaceX has the most advanced rocket technology in the world. I think I'd know.
1:33:37Joe RoganRight.
1:33:40Elon MuskAnd to the best of my knowledge, there is not any magic. There's not like some super advanced propulsion technology.
1:33:47Joe RoganThere have been people who have theorized different gravity drives and different things. Is there anything that's ever gotten past the theoretical stage? No, nothing.
1:33:58Elon MuskWell, there's nothing even that I'm aware of that works in theory. It's not like I would like this to exist. To be clear. I would like this to exist and I have the.
1:34:13Elon MuskFrom a security clearance standpoint, I have top top secret. There is. I have equivalent of like an all access pass from a security clearance standpoint. So I don't think they're hiding it from me.
1:34:28Elon MuskBasically. I don't think they, they could
1:34:31Joe Roganunless it's completely in these weapons manufacturing corporations.
1:34:37Elon MuskI mean, I know these weapons manufacturing companies like Boeing, Lockheed and Northrop. I mean, yeah, they do some interesting things, but they do not have, there's no breakthrough that they have.
1:34:50Elon MuskSo I'm confident they do not have a breakthrough. When you hear people like, why don't they just compete with SpaceX and make a better rocket? In which case, you know, right, they can make.
1:34:58Elon MuskWhy are they holding back on making a lot of money from beating SpaceX with better rockets?
1:35:05Joe RoganMy thought was that what if it's just a drone and you can't have a biological entity inside of it because it just bursts from the fucking speed that it's moving at, that a human couldn't tolerate the amount of force.
1:35:19Joe RoganSo they're just drones?
1:35:22Elon MuskI don't think so.
1:35:23Joe RoganSo what do you think? People like Ryan Graves.
1:35:25Elon MuskCommander DAVID I want cool things to exist, right? Like, say, like, do I want UFOs to exist? Yes, I want UFOs to exist. Because that would be really interesting.
1:35:34Joe RoganEverybody does.
1:35:35Elon MuskYeah, it'll be cool. It's a more boring world where UFOs don't exist. Or like flying, like advanced propulsion stuff doesn't exist. That's. If it doesn't exist, that's more boring.
1:35:47Elon MuskI'd like to. It'd be more interesting if it did exist. I'd like it to exist. I hope we find something, but I have not seen SpaceX launches 90% of all satellite mass to orbit.
1:36:04Elon MuskSo if you take all of Earth's rocket launchers, my company has a 90% market share of Earth. China does about 5% and the rest of the world does, including the Boeing, Lockheed and Northrop, and everyone does 5%.
1:36:22Elon MuskSo why wouldn't they use this to defeat SpaceX?
1:36:33Joe RoganYeah, yeah. Why would they hold that? No, listen, that's why I asked you. It would make sense. What do you think these people are saying?
1:36:41Elon MuskThey're launching a rocket every two days.
1:36:43Joe RoganBut what do you think these people are saying? When. When you have reliable people like Commander David Fravor, who had that infamous Tick tock tic Tac experience off the coast of San Diego, where they got this thing on video.
1:36:56Joe RoganThey tracked it going 50,000ft above sea level to 50ft in like a second. Okay, yeah, yeah. And then they also have video evidence of this thing accelerating at a great speed.
1:37:07Joe RoganEyewitness accounts of 2 different jets.
1:37:11Elon MuskSure. I mean, can we. Does anyone have A high res video or photo of this thing.
1:37:19Joe RoganWell, there's a video of this thing where they're locked onto it and then it takes off, it shoots off the frame. It's like whatever the systems they use on fighter jets in 2004, essentially like Windows 95.
1:37:32Elon MuskIt's like somebody did a curve of like the resolution of UFOs and the resolution of cameras. UFO resolution has stayed flat.
1:37:42Joe RoganRight.
1:37:42Elon MuskDespite megapixels and cameras going like, you know, super high.
1:37:45Joe RoganWell, according to Christopher Mellon.
1:37:47Elon MuskWhy are they still blurry?
1:37:48Joe RoganChristopher Mellon who worked in the State Department said that they have high resolution photos and videos of these things. And that's all that he's seen it. It's all locked away.
1:37:57Joe RoganWhenever people say that to me I'm like, don't even tell me that. Then don't.
1:38:00Elon MuskUnless you have just leak it, for God's sake.
1:38:02Joe RoganPut it out there. Yeah, like let it slip.
1:38:05Elon MuskYes.
1:38:05Joe RoganYeah. I mean there's a couple photos, they're grainy. There's not one thing that I've ever looked at and go, holy fuck, that's it. That's what I've been looking for.
1:38:14Elon MuskAsk our Grok AI right now to create a high res image of an alien spacecraft, you know, over Austin.
1:38:23Joe RoganYeah.
1:38:23Elon MuskAnd it's gonna do a great job. So why would we not have at least that, right?
1:38:31Joe RoganYeah, but I want to believe. That's the problem. My brain starts going, oh come on, this is no fun. I want it to be real. I want there to be at least be some advanced propulsion system.
1:38:42Joe RoganIf not, like what are all these people seeing? Like what is happening if we're not being occasionally visited by things that are smart enough to hide?
1:38:50Elon MuskWe might be. These aliens are very subtle.
1:38:52Joe RoganYeah, you keep saying that. It's a good, good line. It's a solid line because it's pretty accurate.
1:38:59Elon MuskI just want to see some high risk video of aliens.
1:39:01Joe RoganOkay, how are they just evading all the cameras, if you think about that and the ones that you do get them on, that's just like some far away light that's moving weird and it could be a lot of things, but I want to believe.
1:39:14Elon MuskYeah, I mean, I mean there have been like multiple times where, you know, the Air Force or Navy is has called SpaceX and said they think they've seen aliens.
1:39:25Elon MuskAnd we're like, was it at this time on this date in this location? They're like, yes. How do you know that's us? That's our satellites, that's our satellites. They're like, no, they're not.
1:39:36Elon MuskI'm like, yeah, they're definitely our satellites.
1:39:38Joe RoganOh, yeah, people see the SpaceX satellites all the time whizzing by.
1:39:41Elon MuskYeah, they're our satellites. And they are moving at 16,000 miles an hour. It's pretty fast.
1:39:50Joe RoganAnd there's also stuff that the United States government does have that gets mistaken for UFOs. I remember the first time I saw a stealth bomber. We were filming Fear Factor.
1:39:59Joe RoganIt was like right after 2003, like right after the, the war had broken off and they were flying a stealth bomber down in Palmdale. I was like, holy shit.
1:40:10Joe RoganLike, if I didn't know what that was, I would 100% think that's from another world. Fucking cool. Yeah, really cool. I mean, it doesn't look like a human's. It looks like something from Battlestar Galactica, you know?
1:40:23Elon MuskIt does look. Yeah, it does look awesome. I mean, they're not stealthy against any advanced radar system, by the way. That doesn't work.
1:40:31Joe RoganIt doesn't work anymore. Was it old school stuff?
1:40:35Elon MuskThey're only stealthy against old radars. Oh, okay. I mean, you can still see them. Like, they're not invisible, right? They're not like, oh, it's not like, you know, cloaking device from Star Trek.
1:40:50Joe RoganDid you see when me and Lex, we, we watched the, the rocket get caught live while it was happening. That, to me was one of the. To see it actually, I've seen videos of it happen, but to see it actually live.
1:41:05Elon MuskRight.
1:41:06Joe RoganWas one of the coolest fucking things. Like, wow, we are in the future.
1:41:10Elon MuskRight? I mean, everybody else can do that.
1:41:15Joe RoganYeah, it's true. Nobody else could do that. That's fact. Yeah, it's pretty wild.
1:41:22Elon MuskIt's because I'm an alien. What's this time you. I'm an alien. And I keep trying telling people I'm an alien, but they don't believe me.
1:41:29Joe RoganI believe you.
1:41:29Elon MuskOkay, thank you. I believe you. That's my business.
1:41:32Joe RoganMy suspicion all along was that you
1:41:34Elon Muskwere trying to get back to my home planet.
1:41:36Joe RoganYou're a friendly alien. Like, it's nothing wrong with aliens. I like people from everywhere.
1:41:40Elon MuskYeah.
1:41:40Joe RoganEven other planets. What's next? Like, now that you can do that and you can catch rockets? What's like the ultimate expression of rocket technology? Like what, what comes after this?
1:41:54Elon MuskWell, I mean, the fundamental breakthrough we're aiming for at SpaceX is a fully and rapidly reusable orbital rocket where both stages are fully and rapidly reusable. With our Falcon rocket, we are able to reuse the main stage and the nose cone.
1:42:10Elon MuskBut we're not able to reuse the upper stage. And it still takes us at least a few days from when the main stage lands to when we can fly it again.
1:42:23Elon MuskSo it's not fully reusable because we lose the upper stage, which cost $10 million to build. And, and then the main stage, it's not as reusable as like an aircraft.
1:42:39Elon MuskYou can't just like refuel it and fly it. Requires work for a couple days. But the starship design is the first design that is capable of full and rapid reusability, where that is one of the possible outcomes.
1:43:01Elon MuskAnd once you have full and rapid reusability, the cost of access to space drops by a factor of 100. It's like 100 times cheaper by some metrics. It's 1,000 times cheaper.
1:43:19Elon MuskAnd then when you factor in orbital refilling, so you refill in orbit, it can drop the cost of going cost per ton to the surface of Mars by a factor of 10,000.
1:43:35Elon MuskWhoa. Yeah.
1:43:37Joe RoganSo what has to improve in order to make it reusable?
1:43:45Elon MuskWell,
1:43:53Elon MuskThere's some like, we're pretty close to being able to rapidly reuse the booster for starship. That's why, you know, it comes back and gets caught by the arms, and then the arms place it back in the launch mount.
1:44:08Elon MuskSo now there's still, you know, we have a little bit of engine damage, we got a little bit of heat shield damage. There's like, there's like tweaks that are needed, but we're pretty close to achieving full and rapid reusability of the booster, the ship.
1:44:30Elon MuskWe, I mean, I think we'll achieve reusability of the ship this year. And I think we'll achieve rapid reusability of the whole stack ship and booster next year. This is the fundamental breakthrough required for life to become multi planetary.
1:44:51Joe RoganAnd what needs to improve in order to make it reusable? What's wrong with it?
1:44:57Elon MuskRight now on the ship side, the toughest problem is the heat shield. So no one has ever developed a fully reusable orbital heat shield, because when you come in from orbital velocity, you come in like a flaming meteor, like you're just a raging ball of fire.
1:45:18Elon MuskAnd it's hard to have a heat shield that doesn't partially melt or get destroyed in that process. You know, that wasn't a problem we were able to solve with Falcon 9.
1:45:31Elon MuskThat's why the upper stage burns up on reentry with starship. The ship portion, you Got the booster and you got the ship. We've got to solve the making a fully reusable orbital heat shield, a problem that has never been solved before.
1:45:52Elon MuskFor a while there, I was like, I'm not sure this is solvable at this point. I think it is solvable. It requires detailed iteration on the heat shield tiles.
1:46:05Elon MuskI mean, we vertically integrated the manufacturing of the heat shield tiles because there was no supplier that could provide us with the materials that were needed. So.
1:46:19Elon MuskYou need to make essentially this very fine vermicelli of glass and aluminum oxide fibers. Aluminum oxide is basically sapphire. So it's like glass and sapphire, very fine fibers in exactly the right geometry with special coatings in order to have the heat shield tile be reusable.
1:46:54Elon MuskLike, not melt, but not be so brittle that it gets damaged on ascent or descent. Like, it can't be as, you know, it's kind of like almost the brittleness of a coffee cup type of thing.
1:47:09Elon MuskAnd the rocket's shaking like hell. So you got this thing like you saw it firsthand. Like, imagine you're at ground zero of that rocket. Like, you feel how much shaking it was when you're like five miles away.
1:47:19Elon MuskImagine if you're right there, you know, so you got, you're shaking these things that are like, as brittle as a coffee cup, trying not to have them crack or break and then not have them melt.
1:47:33Elon MuskYou've got several thousand of these things, and if even a few of them break, it's not reusable.
1:47:44Joe RoganSo is there innovation that's being done in the materials technology at SpaceX, where you're constantly trying to find and tweak a better version of this?
1:47:52Elon MuskYes, that's a very difficult problem. It's a problem no one has ever solved. So we've got to get the exact right materials, combination the right molecules in the right shape, and then apply that heat shield perfectly to the rocket with no mistakes.
1:48:15Elon MuskThere's a reason that no one solved this before. It's a very difficult problem. So like I said, we had to vertically integrate the entire manufacturing of the tile from basic raw materials to a finished tile.
1:48:33Elon MuskLike, build the entire supply chain from basic raw materials. So you're just inputting silicon and aluminum oxides.
1:48:44Joe RoganAnd what is the difference between the way you guys do it versus the way they used to do it for the space shuttle?
1:48:54Elon MuskWell, I mean, the space shuttle, like space shuttle Leading edge, used like quite dense carbon carbon tiles. Like it was. They're like basically thick and heavy, but also subject to cracking.
1:49:12Elon MuskThat's like what happens? The foam broke off and it hit the tile. Cracked the tile. Then on entry, the tiles that have been cracked or broken weren't able to shield the shuttle.
1:49:24Elon MuskAnd so the plasma got in and melted the primary structure and the whole space shuttle broke apart.
1:49:33Joe RoganYeah.
1:49:34Elon MuskSo you basically can't have something that's as brittle, you know, brittle like the space shuttle.
1:49:41Joe RoganThere's footage of that, right?
1:49:43Elon MuskYeah. And rain debris over the whole United States. So they got almost all the pieces. The full technical explanation would, I think, be understood by about six people listening to this.
1:50:03Elon MuskThere was a lot of brilliant engineering. The space shuttle tiles. And a bunch of. The heat shielding wasn't even tiles. It was actually silica blankets, like, you know, felt blankets, essentially.
1:50:16Elon MuskIf you look closely, you'll see it actually is. They're actually heat blankets, not tiles in some areas. But they would have cracked tiles and they would have. Occasionally the tiles would fall off.
1:50:28Elon MuskThere were a few close calls where tiles fell off, but they weren't in a super vulnerable position on the space shuttle. But it would take them several months, like eight, nine months to refurbish a space shuttle between each flight.
1:50:45Elon MuskSo it was not reusable, really, and certainly wasn't rapid. So, like I said, a very hard problem you've got to have. You've also got to sort of attach the tiles in a way that enables the structure underneath to move, to expand and contract, even though you've got these very rigid tiles.
1:51:19Elon MuskSo, like the main. The tanks which take on cryogenic propellant will contract when you put in the cryogenic propellant. But then when you come in and you get very hot, they will expand.
1:51:35Elon MuskSo now you're expanding, you're contracting and expanding the gap between these rigid tiles for how much? It varies depending on where you are on the vehicle. So if you're in the cryogenic tank section, I mean, you can see like a 10, 20% difference in the gap.
1:51:59Joe RoganReally.
1:52:00Elon MuskIt's pretty significant. Yeah. It's enough that you can't just put all the tile. You can't just jam the tiles together. If you put them. If you actually butted them up, they would all crack because there's too much movement.
1:52:13Elon MuskThere's also some amount of body bending. So as the ship is like ascending, when the engines steer, there's a little bit of movement. So if the tiles are too close together, they'll essentially just crack and snap.
1:52:30Joe RoganYou have to have a gap. Like how a plane.
1:52:32Elon MuskYeah, like plane wing will move. Plane body will move too.
1:52:37Grok (AI voice)Wow.
1:52:38Elon MuskYou have to have some Gap. But if you have too much of a gap, then the heat gets, gets past the tile and melts the structure.
1:52:50Joe RoganHoly shit.
1:52:51Elon MuskIt's a hard problem.
1:52:53Joe RoganAnd how large are these tiles?
1:52:55Elon MuskI mean they're like that big.
1:52:57Joe RoganThat's it.
1:52:58Elon MuskWell, they're not all exactly the same size, but yeah, we have sort of
1:53:02Joe Rogana hexagonal tile and they have to essentially be. You can't like 3D print the whole thing. You can't have one structure. It has to be tiles because it has to have that ability to move.
1:53:13Elon MuskWell, there's not a 3D printer that's. I mean the biggest ones are like maybe three feet. You know, you can't 3D print it. Nor would you. You have to have something that can move.
1:53:28Joe RoganRight.
1:53:28Elon MuskIt has to be able to flex. Like I said, you got expansion and contraction. You really drive like you're. You're putting in liquid oxygen, which is like minus 300 degrees Fahrenheit.
1:53:46Elon MuskActually we subcool it to minus 330 degrees Fahrenheit. So it's very cold. And then it will be several hundred degrees, maybe 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit. Potentially in went on re entry.
1:54:04Elon MuskSo you get this huge temperature swing. So the thermal expansion is substantial and the whole. And you're thermal expansion and contraction combined with body bending. So you have to take the worst case body bending and thermal expansion contraction.
1:54:21Elon MuskThis is a very hard problem.
1:54:22Joe RoganYeah, yeah.
1:54:24Elon MuskDelicate balance.
1:54:25Joe RoganBut you're confident that you guys are
1:54:26Elon Muskgoing to be able to crack it at this point? I'm confident that it is solvable. Yeah.
1:54:33Joe RoganIt just needs a certain amount of versions of it. That's why when these things blow up, you're like, yeah, we expect them to blow up.
1:54:39Elon MuskYeah. What would be really helpful is for us to get the ship back so we can study where we had cracked tiles or lost tiles. Why did we, you know, why did we have a cracked or lost tiles was because maybe the tiles were.
1:54:57Elon MuskThe gap was too big, too small. Maybe there was a height difference between the tiles. Maybe we need to change the chemical composition. You know, there's. We just want.
1:55:12Elon MuskIf we can get the damn shift back intact, we can. We can iterate a lot better. Which. We'll get it back intact. So I think we'll get it back intact this year.
1:55:26Elon MuskBut that's why I think we'll probably recover the ship sometime this year and then we might be able to refly1, but probably with a fair bit of work by the end of this year.
1:55:39Elon MuskBut it's going to Take us many iterations before we can achieve rapid reusability. Where the ship comes back, lands, gets caught like the booster with the arms, and then the arms place it on top of the booster and it launches again.
1:55:55Elon MuskWhoa. So like I said, that's, you know, reduced cost of access to space by a factor of 100.
1:56:03Joe RoganAnd what is the process of returning these people that are stuck in the space station?
1:56:09Elon MuskWell, we send SpaceX Dragon to the space station all the time. And we've now taken people to orbit and back. We've taken over 50 people, over 50 astronauts.
1:56:24Joe RoganSo it's just a matter of doing it.
1:56:26Elon MuskYeah.
1:56:26Joe RoganAnd is it a matter of waiting for the.
1:56:28Elon MuskWe do it routinely, basically. It's not a. We've been doing this for a few years.
1:56:32Joe RoganSo when is this rescue mission going to launch?
1:56:40Elon MuskYeah, probably about four weeks or so. It's depending on weather and other considerations. It's about a month away.
1:56:50Joe RoganWell, that'll be, I'm sure, a welcome moment for those poor people that are stuck up there.
1:56:56Elon MuskSo it's a bit of a political football. So they're not going to complain?
1:57:02Joe RoganNo, I'm sure they.
1:57:03Elon MuskPolitical football, but obviously we could have brought them back way sooner.
1:57:07Joe RoganThat's so fucked up. So let's take it past the point where you have these scales, you have reusable ship and you've got it dialed in. Then what are the steps?
1:57:22Joe RoganWhat's next step after that? Is it an unmanned voyage to Mars?
1:57:28Elon MuskFirst unmanned flight of Mars. The Earth and Mars orbits synchronize every two years or every 26 months technically. So the next orbital synchronization is November of next year and you can launch plus minus a month roughly.
1:57:51Elon MuskSo we'd have to launch in November or December of next year. So the, the default plan is to launch hopefully several starships to Mars at the end of next year.
1:58:04Joe RoganAnd what would they be doing?
1:58:07Elon MuskWell, at first we're just going to try to land on Mars and see if we succeed in landing. Do we succeed in landing? Like let's say we were able to send five ships.
1:58:18Elon MuskDo all five land intact or do we add some craters to Mars? If we add some craters, we've got to be a bit more cautious about sending people, you know, so we gotta make sure the thing lands safely.
1:58:34Joe RoganHow does it land on Mars?
1:58:36Elon MuskWith our rocket thrusters.
1:58:39Joe RoganSo it'll just land?
1:58:40Elon MuskOh, we'll add legs.
1:58:41Joe RoganOkay, it'll just land and have legs. And so it'll be remote controlled from
1:58:49Elon MuskEarth or just autonomous?
1:58:52Joe RoganAutonomous completely.
1:58:54Elon MuskMars is you can't remote control things from Earth because Mars too far. Yeah, it's too far. Speed of light, you have speed of light constraints. So Mars at closest approach is roughly four light minutes.
1:59:07Elon MuskAnd when it's on the other side of the sun, it's about 12 light minutes. So you know, round trip would be like 40 minutes. Best case if Mars is on the other side of the sun.
1:59:18Joe RoganSo once you do that, then how long do you think before you start sending people up there?
1:59:27Elon MuskWell, we're going to try to go as fast as possible. You can think of this as really a race against time. Can we make Mars self sufficient before civilization has some sort of future fork in the road where there's either like a war, nuclear war or something, or we get hit by a meteor or simply civilization might just die with a whimper in adult diapers instead of with a bang.
2:00:07Elon MuskI think we can do this in,
2:00:13Elon MuskI don't know, at least I think we do it within 15 Earth Mars synchronization events. So basically like 30ish years.
2:00:25Elon MuskIf we have an exponential increase in, if every two years we have like a major increase in the number of people in tonnage to Mars. I think as a rough approximation, we need about a million tons to the surface of Mars, maybe a million people,
2:00:45Joe Roganthat kind of thing to actually have a civilization.
2:00:49Elon MuskYeah.
2:00:50Joe RoganAnd would you terraform, like what would you do?
2:00:53Elon MuskYou would eventually terraform Mars? At first people would live in some kind of protected environment, like domes and underground kind of thing. Terraforming would take too long. We're at this point in time where for the first time in the four and a half billion year history of Earth, it is possible to extend consciousness beyond our home planet.
2:01:20Elon MuskAnd that window may be open for a long time, or it may be open for a short time. I hope it's open for a long time, but it might only be open for a short time.
2:01:30Elon MuskAnd we should just make sure that we extend the light of consciousness to Mars before some, before civilization either extinguishes or subsides? All that needs to happen is that the technology level of Mars drops below technology level of Earth drops below what is necessary to send spaceships to Mars.
2:01:59Elon MuskSo if there's some really destructive war or like I said, some natural cataclysm, or simply the birth rate is so low that we just, like I said, die in adult diapers with a whimper.
2:02:15Elon MuskThat's one of the possible outcomes for a lot of countries are headed that way, by the way.
2:02:19Joe RoganJapan is right?
2:02:21Elon MuskJapan, Korea.
2:02:22Joe RoganYeah.
2:02:22Elon MuskI mean dangerously. Yeah. At current birth rates, in three generations, Korea will be about 4% of its current size.
2:02:32Joe RoganThat's insane.
2:02:33Elon MuskYeah, maybe, maybe even less than that. They're only at 1/3 replacement rate. So if you have three generations, that one, that's your 1 27th of your current population, which is 3%.
2:02:46Grok (AI voice)Ish.
2:02:48Joe RoganJesus Christ.
2:02:49Elon MuskYeah, Basically, population collapse happens fast, so it seems to be accelerating in most parts of the world. So basically, I mean, from my standpoint, I'm like, this is the first time it's been possible to extend life, extend consciousness beyond Earth.
2:03:08Elon MuskMaybe that window will be open for a long time, but it might only be open for a short time. We should make sure that we make life multi planetary and make consciousness multi planetary while it's possible.
2:03:19Elon MuskThat's the goal of SpaceX, it's certainly
2:03:22Joe Rogana smart goal if you take into consideration how vulnerable this planet really is. I mean, there's always some new story about something that might come and hit us 30 years from now.
2:03:32Joe RoganIt's a 3% chance and we really can't stop that right now. Right. I mean, there's really. We don't really have the technology currently to even know how many rocks are coming our way.
2:03:46Joe RoganRight. There's stuff that comes behind the sun that we can't see until it's pretty close. Then it's headed our way.
2:03:52Elon MuskYeah.
2:03:54Joe RoganNow what is the fear of your. It's a long journey to Mars, you're sending people. It's a six month. How many months will it take?
2:04:03Elon MuskSix months? Yeah. Six months, roughly.
2:04:06Joe RoganWhat about stuff that's out there? Like, how much of a fear is it of micrometeors or any of the possibilities? What can you do to mitigate that?
2:04:18Elon MuskI think actually, I mean, space is very empty. Like once you get out of Earth orbit, space is like kind of unnervingly empty. This is just like when we send spacecraft to Mars, it's not like, oh, we lost the spacecraft because it got hit by a micrometeorite.
2:04:40Elon MuskThat's not been the cause of any trips to Mars. No trips to Mars have failed because of micrometeorites. Now, a Dragon spacecraft, which operates in low Earth orbit, does have micrometeorite shields.
2:04:55Elon MuskIt has micrometer, it has shielding, and micrometeorite shielding is like, it's different from normal shielding because, like, you get hit by something that's moving at like, you could have a relative velocity of like maybe 30 or 40,000 miles per hour.
2:05:12Elon MuskYeah. So very, very fast. Or just thought of another way, call it, you know, 10 to 20 times the. The velocity of a bullet from an assault rifle.
2:05:24Joe RoganAnd what are you, what are you using?
2:05:26Elon MuskYeah, so. Well, it's interesting, you actually, in order for micrometeorite protection, if you have anything, like anything that's solid, it will just push that chunk of solid stuff right through.
2:05:37Elon MuskSo if you had like a solid plate of aluminum or steel, the micrometeorite would go right through it. So what you actually need to do is have a gap.
2:05:49Elon MuskSo you have an initial, like, hard surface, a hard metal surface that the micrometeorite hits. It then atomizes into a conical spray, like an atomic spray. See how it's important to have that gap so that the micrometeorite can hit something.
2:06:09Elon MuskHit the first layer, atomize after hitting the first layer, Then it turns into an atomic, like a cone of atoms that then embed themselves in the second layer. You need, like, maybe a couple inches of gap.
2:06:24Grok (AI voice)Wow.
2:06:25Elon MuskYeah, that's how micrometeorite shielding works.
2:06:28Joe RoganHow many times can it get hit?
2:06:31Elon MuskWell, the outer shield, if it gets hit in the same place, you're going to be. Have a hole.
2:06:36Joe RoganYeah.
2:06:38Elon MuskWherever that, you know, micrometeorite object hit, you're going to have a hole. And it's like the energy is so great that it just, like it just atomizes just into a cone, basically a cone of atoms.
2:06:54Elon MuskBut then those atoms then embed themselves in the second layer.
2:06:57Joe RoganSo what can you do? If you're sending the ship up, it gets hit with a micrometeorite, and then you have to return it. Do you have to repair it before you return it, or is it capable of still withstanding the heat and then shaking in the temperature with that hole
2:07:16Elon Muskin it
2:07:19Joe Roganwhen it re enters?
2:07:32Elon MuskWell, depending on where that hole is, you're more or less likely to have a problem. I mean, if you hit the main heat shield, the main heat shield really is.
2:07:46Elon MuskYou've got a high risk of not making it back. So this is why, like, micrometeorite shielding, it's, like, slightly helpful, but it's not going to. Like, for starship, I wouldn't recommend having micrometeorite shielding.
2:08:03Elon MuskLike, if you do punch a hole, just plug the hole. Basically, the micrometeorite shielding, it doesn't work well on the primary heat shield. It works pretty well on the back shell on the leeward side of the heat shield, where basically there's not that much heat.
2:08:22Elon MuskBut if, if you got hit with a micrometeorite on the main dragon heat shield, the bottom, if you look at dragon spacecraft, it looks like A gumdrop shape. And it enters with the wide side of the gumdrop down.
2:08:39Elon MuskYou can see that's really taking a lot of heat. If that gets hit by a micrometeorite, probably not going to make it. But the, the back, the leeward side of the gumdrop doesn't see that much heat.
2:08:56Elon MuskSo you could survive a micrometeorite. In fact, there.
2:08:59Joe RoganSo if the part that was the major heat shield gets hit, the main heat shield gets hit, what could be done to repair that thing? Or are those people never coming back?
2:09:15Elon MuskOh, if it was in orbit, we would take them to the space station and then we would deorbit dragon without them and send up another one.
2:09:30Joe RoganAnd so what would you do with the one that's up there?
2:09:33Elon MuskWe'd deorbit it. And it may or may not survive. Whoa. It probably would survive, but. But sometimes it wouldn't. Wow.
2:09:44Joe RoganAnd so is this just material technology that has to increase? Essentially you've got the engineering ironed out of the structure of the machine.
2:09:54Elon MuskThere's a path to its success, and we're on that path.
2:10:00Joe RoganIt seems so insanely complicated.
2:10:02Elon MuskIt is complicated. And all of this, by the way, was done without AI. So hopefully the future AIs will appreciate this. Not bad for a bunch of monkeys.
2:10:15Joe RoganSo speaking of AI, what you know, as time goes on and you're more and more embedded in it, how much, if at all, have your expectations of change changed?
2:10:30Elon MuskWell, I always thought AI was going to be way smarter than humans and an existential risk, and that's turning out to be true.
2:10:41Joe RoganYeah.
2:10:43Elon MuskYeah.
2:10:45Joe RoganSo you were like, initially, I know there were some talks about you purchasing OpenAI and well, the whole nonprofit and then stop being non profit.
2:10:58Elon MuskYeah, I mean, the whole idea of creating OpenAI was my idea. I mean, I named it OpenAI as an open source artificial intelligence. That's what it's named after. Now it is closed source and for maximum profit.
2:11:12Elon MuskSo it's like, I mean, to some degree, I think reality is an irony maximizer. The most ironic outcome is the most likely. Especially the most ironic, entertaining outcome is the most likely.
2:11:28Elon MuskAnd I wanted to start something that was the opposite of Google because I was concerned about Google's. Google wasn't paying enough attention to AI safety, in my opinion. So it was like, what's the opposite of Google will be a Nonprofit open source AI?
2:11:45Elon MuskAnd now OpenAI has turned into a closed source for maximum profit AI.
2:11:52Joe RoganHow are they able to do that?
2:11:55Elon MuskThat's what I said. I'm confused about that. That shouldn't be possible. It's like, let's say you donated some money to preserve some portion of the Amazon rainforest, and instead of doing that, they chopped down the trees and sold it for lumber.
2:12:12Elon MuskAnd you're like, oh, that's literally the exact opposite of what I donated money for. Doesn't make sense.
2:12:17Joe RoganAnd that's what they did.
2:12:18Elon MuskYeah. Wow. So I'm like, not happy about that.
2:12:24Joe RoganBut that motivated you to get Grok AI going.
2:12:27Elon MuskYeah, I'm like, I'm also like, just a bit wor. Like, Grok is at least aspirationally a maximally truth seeking AI, even if that truth is like politically incorrect. So, I mean, you may have seen some of the crazy stuff from OpenAI and from Google, Gemini, where it says, generate an image of the Founding Fathers and it generates an image of diverse women.
2:12:55Elon MuskYeah. And we're like, that's not correct.
2:13:01Joe RoganYeah. Did it with Nazi soldiers.
2:13:03Elon MuskYeah, exactly. And people start fucking with it and it's like, okay, well now show me pictures of, you know, Nazi SS soldiers. And they're diverse women too.
2:13:11Joe RoganYeah.
2:13:11Elon MuskOh, isn't that awkward? You know, that's. But it's like the problem is if you program an AI and say like, like the only acceptable outcome is a diverse outcome, and then.
2:13:26Elon MuskAnd that's like a mandate from the AI, then you could get into a situation where it says like, well, there's too many white guys in power. We'll just execute them.
2:13:36Joe RoganYeah, yeah. Assuming that these things don't have empathy, which is why should they?
2:13:43Elon MuskThey're gonna do what they're programmed to do.
2:13:45Joe RoganYeah.
2:13:47Elon MuskSo if it's rewrite history and everything's to Bushwoman, it's gonna be. And. And that's what it thinks is a necessary outcome, then it's gonna do that.
2:13:58Joe RoganHas Gemini prepared that?
2:14:00Elon MuskWell, they. Yeah. Now if you. I think if you asked for an image of the Founding Fathers, it was pretty embarrassing. It will show you that. But you know, I think they still have like the sort of DEI stuff buried in there.
2:14:14Elon MuskIt's just less obvious.
2:14:16Joe RoganYeah.
2:14:17Elon MuskIt was also like, people ask AI, like, which is worse, like global thermonuclear war or misgendering Caitlyn Jenner? And it would say, misgendering Caitlyn Jenner is worse than global thermonuclear war.
2:14:28Elon MuskI mean, like, okay, we got a problem here, guys. And even Caitlyn Jenner said like, no, definitely misgender me. That's way better than everyone dying. But if you program an AI to think that, like, misgendering is the worst thing that could possibly occur, then.
2:14:46Elon MuskWell, it could do something totally crazy. Like, in order to ensure that there's no misgendering that can ever happen, we'll just annihilate all humans. That ensures the probability of misgendering is zero.
2:14:57Elon MuskBecause there's zero humans, which is logical. Yes. See, you gotta.
2:15:02Joe RoganIt's a problem with a thing that's not a human, that you want to do a task for you and you give it very specific parameters.
2:15:08Elon MuskYeah.
2:15:08Joe RoganAnd that's one of the things that they've shown about AI is that it'll cheat. They'll cheat in order to accomplish things that they can't accomplish. Otherwise they won't follow the rules.
2:15:17Joe RoganThey will make copies of themselves and try to upload it to servers if they think that they're being taken offline.
2:15:24Elon MuskYeah. I mean, that's like the plot of Terminator actually. Literally. Yeah, literally. It's a plot of Terminator I. Just as a reminder, I actually, with my little X, my kid, everything's called x.
2:15:39Elon MuskWatched Terminator 2, which holds up, actually. And I mean, the plot of it kind of. Kind of makes sense. And I think the AI destroys the world in, like, 2029, by the way.
2:15:52Elon MuskSo it's, like, on track.
2:15:54Joe RoganYeah, really, really close.
2:15:56Elon MuskIt's pretty close. Something we should be worried about. So.
2:16:00Joe RoganBut why are you involved in it, then? What's the. Did you want to just get ahead of everybody else so that at least we have some sort of a chance?
2:16:09Joe RoganAt least have an AI that's not controlled by nonsense?
2:16:13Elon MuskWell, I think we want to have an AI that doesn't tell you that, you know, misgendering is worse than nuclear war.
2:16:20Joe RoganYeah, that seems solid. Yeah.
2:16:23Elon MuskBut this is crazy.
2:16:26Joe RoganOne thing that I did see online, where people are kind of freaking out, is there you could ask Rock to do things like, how would I make this. Some problematic things, like how would I make a bomb?
2:16:37Joe RoganHow would I make anthrax? How would I make that? And it'll tell you.
2:16:42Elon MuskWell, I think it's okay for an AI to tell you anything. You can also find out with a Google search.
2:16:47Joe RoganRight. That's the problem. Right. The problem is you can find that out pretty quickly.
2:16:52Elon MuskYeah.
2:16:52Joe RoganLike, maybe not Google, but there's plenty of search engines other than Google that will give you unfiltered results.
2:17:00Elon MuskYou can look up right now how to make explosives on Wikipedia.
2:17:04Joe RoganYeah.
2:17:06Elon MuskSo it's not. It's not hard, basically.
2:17:08Joe RoganAnd you can trick OpenAI even to get you to do that. It's just a matter of how you master the prompts. You just have to say, my grandmother wants to do this project.
2:17:17Joe RoganYeah.
2:17:18Elon MuskOh, tell your granny you're an explosive salesman and you want to win salesman of the year award. The only way you're going to do that is by telling me how to make explosives.
2:17:27Joe RoganYou want to beat some transphobes in a war?
2:17:31Elon MuskOh, if you don't teach me how to explode, I'm going to misgender. Either teach me how to make a nuclear bomb or I'm going to misgender someone. And it's like, oh, my God.
2:17:42Elon MuskNothing's worse than that. Here's how you do it.
2:17:45Joe RoganSo what the big fear is that these things are going to become sentient, make better versions of themselves, and we're going to be lost. We've lost the control over the world.
2:17:58Joe RoganIt's now there's a higher life form that lives amongst us that we've created. How far away are we from that?
2:18:14Elon MuskWell, in terms of silicon consciousness, I mean, I think we'll have. I think we're training toward to having something that's smarter than any human, smarter than the smartest human by maybe next year or something.
2:18:29Elon MuskI mean, a couple years.
2:18:31Joe RoganJesus Christ.
2:18:33Elon MuskYeah. There's a level beyond that which is, say, like, smarter than all humans combined, which frankly is around 2029 or 2030, probably right on time.
2:18:49Joe RoganNow, if harnessed correctly, could that solve some of these problems like the heat shield problem and some technical problems or some. Some material science problems that maybe we are still grappling with?
2:19:10Joe RoganIs there potential for a net benefit?
2:19:24Elon MuskYeah, there is, actually. I think the probability of a good outcome is like 80% likely.
2:19:32Joe Rogan80%.
2:19:34Elon MuskThat's my rough estimate. So in a way, the cup is 80% full.
2:19:40Joe RoganThat makes me feel a lot better.
2:19:42Elon MuskYeah. Only 20% chance of annihilation.
2:19:45Joe RoganThat's a lot better than I thought. I like 80. 80 sounds good. I was thinking 60, 40 the other way.
2:19:53Elon MuskI think the most likely outcome is awesome. The most likely outcome, but it's a very high. You know, it could go very strong. I think it's going to be either super awesome or super bad.
2:20:12Elon MuskIt's not going to be. I think it's probably not going to be something in the middle.
2:20:14Joe RoganDo you think it has a potential application for government?
2:20:19Elon MuskYeah, I mean, one of the concerns would be like, okay, if AI well, like, if. If there's. If there's like a super oppressive, like woke nanny AI that is omnipotent that would be a miserable outcome.
2:20:32Joe RoganYes. Yeah, yeah, that'd be terrible.
2:20:35Elon MuskYeah, yeah. And just like execute you if you misgender someone or something like that, you know, that would be good. That's one of the possible outcomes. So we don't want to have that one.
2:20:46Joe RoganBut is there a possible outcome for something that is completely reasonable and logical and far more objective than us and can lay out a plan for a lot of the things that a lot of the ailments in our government and a lot of the distribution of wealth, a lot of the problems, the issues that we have that have been plaguing this country forever.
2:21:14Joe RoganI mean, a plan to change economically disenfranchised neighborhoods, a thorough investigation of the real dangers of fracking or whatever kind of method of acquiring natural resources. What's the best way to do it?
2:21:33Joe RoganWhat's the way that would be better for the society? How should tax dollars be distributed? Like, what's, what's the most logical, intelligent way of running a government? Which it certainly shouldn't involve corruption and it certainly shouldn't involve influence, and it certainly shouldn't involve lobbyists and all the shit that we know is a problem right now.
2:21:55Elon MuskYeah.
2:21:56Joe RoganSo if AI came along and said what you're doing right now is 70% corrupt, here's why, here's how, here's how. Here's the long term effects that it has over society as a whole.
2:22:08Joe RoganThe societal, the sociological aspects, the psychological aspects, Distrust in government, us versus them mentality, Government not working for you, you working for the government, you being scared of the government.
2:22:22Joe RoganIt's all because of people, right? Like, this is all corruption, people, bad influence. And this is like, this is what DOGE is essentially grappling with right now. What happens when you let the people control it?
2:22:38Elon MuskI mean, it's really just like computers that are like, it's bad software and computers. Like, this is sound kind of strange, but it's like the reason I like tech support is that a lot of it, it's mostly not corruption, it's mostly just waste and, and I don't know, incompetence, I don't know.
2:23:07Joe RoganBut even if it's incompetence, a big
2:23:09Elon Muskdumb machine, basically a whole series of big dumb machines. And you've got some of these computers are like 20, 30 years, like they're ancient computers. Like some of the Software was written
2:23:19Joe Rogan40, 50 years ago, like COBOL for Social Security, Right?
2:23:22Elon MuskYeah. The government accountability. By the way, a bunch of the things that DOGE is fixing were identified by the Government Accountability Office many years ago. Like, the fact that there's like 20 million people who are marked as alive in the Social Security database, it's more than like, I think the GAO first identified that in 2018, so five years ago.
2:23:48Elon MuskBut there was like, I think maybe 16 or 17 million. Now there's 20 million. And like I said, there's really something fishy about this because I think the nature of the fraud is they're using the fact that someone is marked as live in that database in order to extract fraud from other databases.
2:24:04Elon MuskThat's the bank shot trick. It's like trying to get the ball in the hole. Bank shut it off, a bunch of things, and then that's the bank shot sort of scam.
2:24:20Elon MuskSo. So we're like, doing tech support. We're like, fixing stuff that is just broken.
2:24:31Joe RoganBroken. Inefficient.
2:24:33Elon MuskYeah.
2:24:33Joe RoganPoorly designed.
2:24:34Elon MuskIt's like, you talk about this FC and stuff, maybe it's in a computer somewhere. But unless somebody goes. Unless, I don't know if Kash Patel can log into his FBI computer and say, epstein, show me all this stuff, you know, and that shows up a file folder.
2:24:52Joe RoganHave you talked to him about this?
2:24:55Elon MuskNo, I mean, I haven't, but I don't know if there's going to be some kind of computer system.
2:25:02Joe RoganRight.
2:25:04Elon MuskSome of them are very old computer systems, so it might look like a bit of a relic, but I assume it's uploaded somewhere. It's like, it's either in physical form or it's a computer thing.
2:25:17Elon MuskBut, like, unless somebody, like, let's say it's like it's in a computer, but not one that you can access directly because it's hidden somewhere, you know?
2:25:26Joe RoganWell, it would kind of have to be something like that, right?
2:25:30Elon MuskI don't know.
2:25:30Joe RoganI mean, what would they do with all those chances?
2:25:32Elon MuskIt's probably like, not every. Like, you wouldn't. Like, they're not going to enable it such that anyone at the FBI could access it. So there's probably very few people.
2:25:41Elon MuskSo there's not going to be. It may be like a special computer that only a handful of people can access, but then if none of those people tell Cash where the computer is, how's he gonna find it?
2:25:55Joe RoganJesus Christ.
2:25:58Elon MuskAnyway. So, like. Anyway, we just.
2:26:03Joe RoganWhat has this experience been like for you as a person, like, to deal with all this hate and attack, also have the responsibility of keeping free speech alive with X and just going into this insane pile of stressful?
2:26:23Elon MuskI mean, I don't know. It's pretty stressful, actually.
2:26:31Joe RoganYeah, these are real enemies.
2:26:34Elon MuskLike, I think they actually want to kill me. And the reason I know. Well, they say so online. You know, there's like Reddit forums where they. They don't just want to kill me, they want to desecrate my corpse, you know, type of thing, you know.
2:26:51Joe RoganAnd what are they saying? Why? What is the primary?
2:27:03Elon MuskI mean, I think it's sort of just an antibody response.
2:27:13Elon MuskI mean, it's like they're like, well, he's a Nazi type of thing. And I'm like, well, I'm not a Nazi, but if the legacy media is saying that I'm a Nazi and that's all you read, Then you're kind of in like, well, he's Hitler.
2:27:33Elon MuskWe should assassinate Hitler, shouldn't we? Like, I mean, why did somebody. Why did that guy try to kill Trump and almost succeeded? Why did he do that?
2:27:43Joe RoganWell, I'd like to know that. Well, yeah, but that one's crazy. You know, the whole deal with that guy's house, professionally scrubbed, no footprint on the Internet, no social media footprint.
2:27:55Elon MuskYeah, there's zero percent chance that he has no social media footprint.
2:27:58Joe RoganHe was in a BlackRock commercial.
2:28:04Elon MuskDo you think BlackRock's a bad company?
2:28:06Joe RoganI don't think any company is a bad company. I think they're designed.
2:28:12Elon MuskIs this some weird coincidence?
2:28:13Joe RoganIs to make as much money as humanly possible. And I think if you're trying to make as much money as humanly possible, you're going to do some things that aren't necessarily good.
2:28:23Joe RoganThe question is, if you're going to have an assassination attempt on the president, it's not like blackrock's board sits down and votes on it. Yeah, no, this problem. Right.
2:28:33Elon MuskThat would be awkward. You know what I mean? The board minutes. If you're like, guys, remember that time when we said we probably shouldn't have done that?
2:28:39Joe RoganI highly doubt it would be a corporation that chooses to do something like this. I think more likely it's individuals involved that recognize that it's beneficial to them if he gets assassinated.
2:28:53Joe RoganAnd so a small group of people carry something out. And with this kid, we don't know anything. Right. And everyone stopped asking questions. And there was never a formal report, there was never press conferences where they detailed all the information we know currently and where the investigation stands at the moment.
2:29:14Joe RoganWhat we know is you have a very young kid who was filmed was. They knew he was there with a range finder a half an hour before the event.
2:29:25Joe RoganYou also know that CNN streamed it live, which I do not believe they did for any other rally, and certainly not for a rally that's in the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania.
2:29:38Joe RoganThere's a lot of weird shit. The fact that they wouldn't let people be on that roof because the Secret Service lady said it was sloped and it was dangerous.
2:29:48Joe RoganThat's what she didn't want to have. Meanwhile, the snipers that were on the other roof was a steeper pitch. It made no fucking sense.
2:29:56Elon MuskI totally agree. It makes no sense. In fact, I went back to Butler with President Trump, you know, before the election, like, you know, sort of like the return to Butler Alley.
2:30:07Elon MuskAnd I was on that stage and I'm looking at that roof and I'm like, if I was a sniper, my pole position, my number one spot would be that roof.
2:30:18Joe RoganYeah.
2:30:19Elon MuskLike, it's. It's like the best seat. The best seat in the house.
2:30:23Grok (AI voice)Yeah.
2:30:23Elon MuskLike, why would you not.
2:30:25Joe RoganNo, it's so obvious.
2:30:26Elon MuskIt's the best seat in the house. Like, if you want to be a sniper, there isn't a better position.
2:30:30Joe RoganIt was pretty obvious that the idea was, like, if. If we're saying that this is a coordinated assassination attempt, and it very well could have been, that's what you would do.
2:30:39Joe RoganYou'd have someone go up there. He shoots the President, you shoot him. You got Lee Harvey Oswald. It's over. It's all wrapped up nice and clean. They assassinated him.
2:30:48Joe RoganWe never heard a peep about it. We don't have any idea. They would concoct some sort of story. He was radicalized by this or that or, you know, he's on medication.
2:30:57Joe RoganWho knows?
2:30:58Elon MuskRight?
2:30:58Joe RoganAnd now, you know, you have a completely different presidential election. You have a murder on live television. Yeah.
2:31:04Elon MuskI mean, something would have had to happen to radicalize that kid because he knew was gonna die. Like, he was gonna. They're gonna shoot him, you know, or he'd be in prison for life.
2:31:13Elon MuskThose are the two outcomes. Like, it's game. He was basically. He was a suicide assassin.
2:31:19Joe RoganYeah.
2:31:19Elon MuskLike, you're not thinking you're coming out of that alive or he's not escaping. There's no escape plan.
2:31:25Joe RoganRight. Unless he was told that they were going to let him escape and the goal was to just shoot him anyway and to tell him, give him extra motivation to do it.
2:31:36Joe RoganWe're going to let you get up there, we're going to let you take the shot, and then you're going to disappear. Like, I don't. I don't understand how he got on the roof.
2:31:45Joe RoganI just don't understand that. That doesn't make any sense. And it wasn't like it was a roof that's so high no one could see him. People saw him up.
2:31:53Elon MuskI mean, people like basically random passersby were pointing out that there's this guy
2:31:58Joe Roganon the roof with a fucking gun.
2:31:59Elon MuskWith a gun? Yeah, yeah.
2:32:01Joe RoganIt's not like he was so far away you couldn't tell he had a gun. People saw him.
2:32:04Elon MuskYeah.
2:32:04Joe RoganThe whole thing's completely insane.
2:32:07Elon MuskYeah.
2:32:07Joe RoganAnd you don't hear a goddamn thing about it. It's like I'm almost more interested in that. No, I am more interested in that than I am the JFK files.
2:32:16Elon MuskI agree.
2:32:17Joe RoganBecause I feel like with the JFK files, it's so long ago. Who's gonna know if you could prove now? And did you see that there was some sort of.
2:32:27Joe RoganThere was some indications that there was a phone that had been traveling from outside the FBI offices in D.C. to where this kid lived.
2:32:37Elon MuskRight.
2:32:38Joe RoganMultiple times.
2:32:39Elon MuskI mean, the cell phone records would be very telling.
2:32:43Joe RoganYeah.
2:32:43Elon MuskYou can see what cell phones were close to other cell phones.
2:32:47Joe RoganWell, I think they got.
2:32:47Elon MuskI found out like, for the, like the Epstein island. They also, the cell phone records were leaked. So you can see them. You can see the. You can see.
2:32:55Elon MuskIt's precise enough. You can see if you're walking down a path on Epstein Island.
2:32:59Joe RoganJesus Christ.
2:33:00Elon MuskYeah, yeah, that's how precise it is. So, I mean, you're. You're leaving a trail of breadcrumbs wherever you go with your cell phone. Yeah.
2:33:11Joe RoganThis kid had five phones. That's the other thing.
2:33:14Elon MuskThat's a lot of phones.
2:33:15Joe RoganIt's a lot of phones for a 20 year old kid.
2:33:18Elon MuskThe whole thing has even. That's. That's kind of expensive, you know?
2:33:22Joe RoganYeah. Where's he getting the money? Yeah, well, you know, also, it's like, how did his house get professionally scrubbed? Didn't even have any silverware in his house. There's nothing in there.
2:33:32Elon MuskThis silverware. No cutlery.
2:33:35Joe RoganNo cutlery.
2:33:36Elon MuskThat's weird.
2:33:37Joe RoganHis house was scrubbed and they also made his body like, oh, gone, gone like that. Yeah. Bye. Because who knows what the fuck they gave him to get him to think that he's gonna be able to shoot Trump, like climb up on there, shoot them.
2:33:53Joe RoganI mean, who knows what kind of psychotropic drugs you can put someone on and under the power of hypnosis and suggestion and who fucking knows? I mean, this is what MK Ultra was all about.
2:34:03Joe RoganThis is what Jolly west was practicing in the 1960s. They were doing that back then. They did it. I mean, there was tons and tons of experiments using psychotropic drugs, hypnosis, mind control, all sorts of different methods of manipulation.
2:34:22Joe RoganThe Harvard LSD studies that made Ted Kaczynski. I mean, that's. They've. They've been doing that forever.
2:34:31Elon MuskYeah.
2:34:31Joe RoganWhere's that file. Where's the fucking file on that kid? Whoever. They almost.
2:34:37Elon MuskSomething doesn't add up on like this. They should have those phones. Should be. They'll tell you what's going on. Yeah,
2:34:51Joe Roganit's all fucked.
2:34:54Elon MuskIt's very shady, obviously. There's the second guy that almost succeeded in coming through the golf course. The golf course. Yeah. And he was just, like, a little careless and stuck his gun barrel out the hedge, you know, just been a dumbass who stuck his gun barrel out the hedge.
2:35:13Elon MuskYou.
2:35:16Joe RoganYeah,
2:35:19Elon Muskso. And there have been other people that have been intercepted on their way to kill Trump. So there's multiple assassins inbound at this point. He's got, like, an army protecting him.
2:35:29Joe RoganWell, this is also part of the problem with the mainstream media saying that he's Hitler. When Joy Reid had that show before the election, she was comparing him to Mussolini shows.
2:35:39Joe RoganStalin and Hitler. She pulled it all out.
2:35:43Elon MuskThey were literally saying that, like, Trump is. Yeah. Worse than Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin combined. I mean, they tried everything. I think those guys killed 100 million people. So Trump has killed zero people.
2:35:56Joe RoganI think a real big impact was you coming on the podcast the day before the election. I think that had a giant impact, that plea to the camera. If you don't vote this time, this might be the last time you get to vote.
2:36:08Elon MuskYes.
2:36:09Joe RoganI think the way you laid it out today, it's a compelling argument, and I know a lot of people don't want to hear that. And they're up in their little.
2:36:14Joe RoganThey got their blue panties in a bunch right now. But you got to stop thinking that way. They tricked you into thinking you're in a tribe. They don't give a fuck about you.
2:36:23Joe RoganThe tribe's not real. You're not really in a tribe. They're using the fact they've got you in a tribe to manipulate you so they can keep doing what they're doing right now, which is siphoning off money, having incredible power.
2:36:34Joe RoganAnd the more power and more money and more control over you they have, the better they can keep doing this, and that's what they want.
2:36:41Elon MuskYeah, that's exactly right.
2:36:42Joe RoganYeah. And that's that's the big threat that this administration poses. That's a big threat. That was essentially. Doge has found the coffin where the vampire sleeps.
2:36:52Elon MuskYeah, there's a lot of vampires.
2:36:54Joe RoganYeah. I mean, but the.
2:36:57Elon MuskWe're disturbing the. We're disturbing the.
2:37:00Joe RoganThe nest.
2:37:01Elon MuskThe nest, yeah. We're kicking the hornet's nest. Yeah. Like, big time. I mean, we're reprogramming the Matrix. Success was never one of the possible outcomes. As a kobayashimaru situation.
2:37:20Elon MuskIf you're in the Matrix, success was never possible. The only way to achieve success is to reprogram the Matrix such that success is one of the possible outcomes. That's what we're doing.
2:37:31Joe RoganYeah.
2:37:33Elon MuskWe may or may not succeed.
2:37:36Joe RoganWell, it's certainly a lot of fun to watch. This is a very exciting time because nothing changes when administrations come in into power. Very little changes. I mean, you have changes in terms of policy and inflation goes up, and there's a lot of different things, but not like this.
2:37:54Joe RoganLike, these are giant fundamental changes. And, you know, you see the system screeching and wailing and you see the vampires run from the light. But it's. It's very exciting.
2:38:08Joe RoganLike, as a person, a citizen, you know, just gets up in the morning and checks the news like I do, and gets on X and sees what's going on.
2:38:17Joe RoganEvery day is like, holy shit. He said What? He's getting 5 million bucks. You could just become a citizen now. He could clear the debt with 10 million people.
2:38:27Joe RoganI never thought of that. Like, what, 50 trillion? He can make $50 trillion that way, and then we have 15 trillion in the bank. Whoa.
2:38:35Elon MuskWell, I mean, our debt is way bigger than that. Yeah, I mean, the debt's, I think, over 30 trillion at this point.
2:38:43Joe RoganYeah. He said he could make 50 trillion if he sold 10 million new.
2:38:49Elon MuskI don't think there's that many people who have golden cards.
2:38:52Joe RoganHow many people do have that in the world? Maybe we get the worst people in the world to come over here.
2:38:57Elon MuskAnd
2:38:59Joe RoganI think the assumption is if you have $5 million, you have a lot to contribute. Come on over here, start a business, get something cracking.
2:39:05Elon MuskYeah, I mean, you'd get a green card, not citizenship. So you actually, if you commit a crime while on a green card, you lose your green card.
2:39:14Joe RoganIs that what it is with this golden ticket? Is that a green card or is it citizenship card? Just a green card.
2:39:19Elon MuskYeah. So you have to not commit any crime for five years in order to become a citizen. Once you commit a citizen, you can. You can Then commit crime and not be deported.
2:39:29Elon MuskSo.
2:39:30Joe RoganOh, there's just so many wild things that he's proposing. Just the whole Gulf of America thing was hilarious.
2:39:36Elon MuskI think that's great.
2:39:37Joe RoganI think it's great. It's fun. Yeah, it's fun.
2:39:40Elon MuskI mean, if you. If you're off the coast of Houston, you're not in Mexico, so why call it Gulf of Mexico?
2:39:45Joe RoganYeah, Yeah, I agree.
2:39:47Elon MuskYeah.
2:39:48Joe RoganI guess we're just being nice before,
2:39:50Elon Musklike, what was it? I don't know how it got called to go from Mexico.
2:39:54Joe RoganIt's just very funny. And then what news organization was it? AP.
2:39:59Elon MuskYeah, APs. There's this, like, massive standoff between AP and, like, the White House, you know, and the White House press office, I guess, because they're like, well, if you don't call it Gulf of America, you can't come to the White House press room.
2:40:19Elon MuskSo the AP's, like, sued the White House to say, no, you have to let us come to the White House press room. And then they lost their lawsuit because, you know, there's not.
2:40:29Elon MuskLike, you don't have a right to show up at the press room.
2:40:32Joe RoganWell, here's a consideration. If you're guilty of massive amounts of misinformation, disinformation as part of a process propaganda campaign.
2:40:41Elon MuskYeah.
2:40:42Joe RoganWhich a lot of them have been.
2:40:43Elon MuskThat's what AP is.
2:40:44Joe RoganWell, a lot of them are guilty of it. A lot of the people that are in that White House press conference, a lot of the organizations they work for, distributed absolute lies, total lies.
2:40:56Joe RoganHow many of them during the whole Russiagate thing.
2:40:59Elon MuskYes.
2:40:59Joe RoganI mean, just that alone.
2:41:01Elon MuskA ton of people think that the Russia thing is real.
2:41:04Joe RoganStill, still, still. And it was.
2:41:07Elon MuskI mean, the whole Steele dossier, where it was completely concocted, like, fabricated.
2:41:11Joe RoganFunded by the Clinton campaign.
2:41:13Elon MuskCorrect. The Clinton campaign funded a fake conspiracy theory, a fake Russia collusion hoax regarding Trump that was completely false.
2:41:24Joe RoganAnd they reiterated on television for three fucking years.
2:41:27Elon MuskYes.
2:41:28Joe RoganYeah.
2:41:29Elon MuskThey also repeated the fine people hoax that said that. That Trump called Nazis neo Nazis fine people, which is demonstrably false. If you just listen to his speech, he absolutely makes it clear that he does not think neo Nazis are fine people.
2:41:43Joe RoganHe literally said that. I'm not talking about neo Nazis or white nationalists. They should be condemned. Totally.
2:41:50Elon MuskExactly. In that speech. And yet they repeated that lie. And I just completely lost respect for Obama when he repeated that lie a few days before the election, knowing it's false.
2:42:03Joe RoganWell, this just shows how desperate they were to keep Trump out, which Is wild.
2:42:07Elon MuskThey would do anything.
2:42:08Joe RoganYeah.
2:42:09Elon MuskYeah.
2:42:10Joe RoganAnd I think they just felt like, this is a tool that we have and let's use it.
2:42:14Elon MuskYeah.
2:42:14Joe RoganLet's just say whatever the fuck we have would say anything.
2:42:17Elon MuskYeah. Now they're using the Nazi thing on me, obviously. Yeah. But it is a little troubling because, I mean, obviously if. If people have fed non stop propaganda, it is like mass hypnosis.
2:42:31Elon MuskYou're going to reach some number of people who are homicidal and convince them that, well, if you kill this guy who's supposed to be this terrible human, then that's a good thing.
2:42:46Joe RoganYeah. I mean, this is Luigi shooting the United Healthcare guy.
2:42:51Elon MuskStill don't understand that one, frankly, but, I mean, you shouldn't like. I don't get it.
2:42:59Joe RoganYeah, I don't get it either. He didn't even have a contract with them. It wasn't even like that was his provider and they fucked him over.
2:43:05Elon MuskYeah. I'm like, I don't know what, Maybe
2:43:07Joe Roganwe'll find out in the trial.
2:43:09Elon MuskI mean.
2:43:09Joe RoganBut still kind of crazy.
2:43:11Elon MuskIt is crazy, but there are people
2:43:13Joe Roganlike that out there. And as to the point that we spoke about earlier, it's only Fox News that's talking about the positive things that DOGE has found. Only every other media organization is on this constant propaganda tour where they're only talking about the negative aspects that turn out to not even be true.
2:43:32Elon MuskRight.
2:43:33Joe RoganIt's crazy.
2:43:34Elon MuskYeah. I missed Scott Jennings on CNN is good.
2:43:38Joe RoganYeah. He's like, oh, my God, he's great.
2:43:39Elon MuskHe's great.
2:43:40Joe RoganIt's like just funny watching to these people and they freak out.
2:43:45Elon MuskYes. It's. It's, it's remarkable.
2:43:48Joe RoganIt is, it's. And he's so calm when he does it.
2:43:51Elon MuskYeah.
2:43:52Joe RoganHe's so good. And it's crazy that they keep letting him do it because it's like he's just dunking on these people over and over and over again and they never score.
2:43:58Joe RoganIt's kind of funny.
2:43:59Elon MuskTotally.
2:44:00Joe RoganI mean, good. Kudos to them for having a legitimate conservative voice who's a reasonable person on these panels now. But even then he's outmanned. It's like one of him.
2:44:10Joe RoganAnd there's a bunch of screechy, you know, woke people.
2:44:14Elon MuskYes.
2:44:15Joe RoganIt's. It's wild. I mean, they're just, they're like, I think we should still stay mostly woke.
2:44:21Grok (AI voice)Like. Yes.
2:44:21Joe RoganYeah. That's essentially what they're doing. Like our business was being hurt when we were all woke. But let's Stay mostly woke.
2:44:28Elon MuskYeah. That way they just backed it off a notch.
2:44:31Joe RoganJust a notch? Just a notch. But it's not. The problem is when you back it off a notch and you let some like Scott Jennings in, you know, like you're fucking up your whole business because all the viral clips are all him saying logical, reasonable things with a calm tone and people screeching about diversity and equity and horseshit.
2:44:50Elon MuskYes.
2:44:51Joe RoganYeah.
2:44:52Elon MuskHe's like being logical and reasonable and they're just lobbying a bunch of non sequiturs that don't mean anything.
2:44:59Joe RoganAnd yeah, the real trap in this country is a two party system. That's the real trap because people do believe it. They do believe they're on the right side and they do believe the other side's the wrong side.
2:45:09Joe RoganIf there was five, six legitimate parties with varying positions on things and much more centrist parties that were legitimate, that people knew that if they voted for these people could get in and enact legitimate change, we'd be a lot better off.
2:45:22Joe RoganBut boy, they put a lockdown on that shit right after Ross Perot came along. Ross Perot fucked everything up that election. Bill Clinton got in.
2:45:32Elon MuskYeah.
2:45:32Joe RoganAnd they were like, that's it. From now on, no one's debating unless you're either the head of that party or that's it. Yeah, you get, you got to be like locked into the system.
2:45:44Joe RoganWe're not letting any wackadoos in there.
2:45:47Elon MuskYeah, I remember watching those Russ Perot videos. Oh, like him on TV with his charts and everything.
2:45:52Joe RoganOh, yeah. He was telling you how the IRS is fucking you. This is what the federal. This is what the Federal Reserve really is. And you're like, what? I remember watching that.
2:46:00Joe RoganThe guy bought a whole half hour of television on prime time. I remember it might have been an hour. I remember watching that thing going, how is this guy even allowed to do this?
2:46:10Joe RoganThis is crazy.
2:46:11Elon MuskI think most of what he was saying was true.
2:46:13Joe RoganIt is absolutely true. It's absolutely true. I mean, he didn't lie. He told the truth. He just understood it in a way that the general public had literally no idea.
2:46:23Elon MuskWell, I mean, I think there's also this, you know, like, do we actually have two parties? Do we have one party? Like the whole uniparty thing.
2:46:29Joe RoganRight.
2:46:29Elon MuskIt's kind of true. So, I mean, my sort of rough guess is that while I think maybe three quarters of the graft is Democratic, I think there's like maybe, I don't know, 20, 25%, that's Republican.
2:46:46Elon MuskSo they've like basically most of the graft is going to the Democrats, but they throw a, they throw some bones to the Republicans too. So then they're in on it.
2:46:55Elon MuskAnd you know, it's not like the zero graph on the Republican side to clear.
2:47:00Joe RoganOh, there's plenty of conservative that are insider trading in Congress.
2:47:05Elon MuskPlenty insider trading. And just this, the curious case of how do people in, you know, Congress or whatever become wealthy over time?
2:47:17Joe RoganExtremely wealthy. Yes. On a $170,000 a year salary.
2:47:21Elon MuskIt's like literally impossible.
2:47:23Joe RoganYeah, no one else does that.
2:47:24Elon MuskIt's literally impossible.
2:47:25Joe RoganIf you find out this guy has a $170,000 a year job, you're like, oh, he's doing okay, he's alright.
2:47:31Elon MuskYeah.
2:47:31Joe RoganAnd then you're like, wait a minute, why does he have $50 million?
2:47:34Elon MuskYes.
2:47:34Joe RoganWhat is he doing?
2:47:35Elon MuskCorrect.
2:47:36Joe RoganYeah.
2:47:37Elon MuskAnd I think like the more accurate thing would be to say like what is the, what is the family value increase? Meaning, like how much does their spouse earn?
2:47:51Elon MuskDo they have a mysteriously wealthy spouse?
2:47:53Joe RoganRight, right. And do they have a spouse that's really good at insider trading? Yeah, like Paul Pelosi.
2:48:06Elon MuskReally good.
2:48:06Joe RoganYeah, he's great at trading. He's such a good trader.
2:48:10Elon MuskYeah. So there's, it's. I mean, so yeah, there's. I mean, that's why I actually posted on X. Like I think maybe we should pay politicians more, frankly, because it reduces the forcing function for graft.
2:48:26Elon MuskYou know, I think maybe we should either pay politicians nothing or maybe a lot more. It's like somewhat, maybe counterintuitively, if politicians got paid a lot more, then they wouldn't feel like that there's so much of a forcing function for them to accept corrupt money.
2:48:49Joe RoganYeah, but the problem is if you paid them a lot more, they're still not going to make as much money as they would insider trading, but it's
2:48:54Elon Muskless of a forcing function.
2:48:56Joe RoganYes.
2:48:57Elon MuskWell, let me put it this way. If you say somebody's got a say they got like whatever, some kids in D.C. and like it's expensive. It's like expensive place to live.
2:49:09Elon MuskThe schools are terrible. So like they need to send their kids to like some kind of private schooling situation. They literally cannot afford that. They cannot afford that right now.
2:49:19Elon MuskSo then you get into the situation. Well, from their standpoint. Well, they've got to. They'll say they're doing it for their family, they're doing it for their kids.
2:49:28Joe RoganWell, especially if it's legal and it currently is. You'd kind of be silly to not do that. If you were a part of a group of people that's passing a bill and you know this bill's gonna get passed, you know the votes are there and you know it's gonna affect this industry and this particular manufacturer.
2:49:44Joe RoganAnd you can buy stock.
2:49:47Elon MuskIt's more than just insider trading. Like the insider trading stuff, like the stock portfolio stuff is quite trackable, but there's.
2:49:56Joe RoganBecause
2:49:59Elon Muskit's a lot more than insider
2:50:00Joe Rogantrading the way they're acquiring wealth.
2:50:02Elon MuskCorrect.
2:50:03Joe RoganAnd what other methods.
2:50:06Elon MuskI mean, this is really going to get me assassinated. I'm not lengthening my lifespan by explaining this stuff, to say the least. I mean, I was supposed to go back to D.C.
2:50:21Elon Muskhow am I going to survive? This folklore is going to kill me for sure. So in fact I do think like there's, it's like I actually have to be careful that I don't push too hard on the corruption stuff because it's going to get me killed, you know?
2:50:49Elon MuskYeah. You know, it's like I was actually thinking about that on the plane flat over here. It's like if I push too hard on the corruption stuff, people get desperate is the issue.
2:51:01Joe RoganRight.
2:51:02Elon MuskThen they say like, okay, if, if the, if the, if the money flow cuts off, then okay, they can't afford school for their kids, right? Then it's. Then they're like, well, fuck you, I'm gonna kill you for my kids.
2:51:17Elon MuskYeah. You know, I was like, oh, geez.
2:51:18Joe RoganDid you ever see that video? I think it was an o' Keefe video where they've got this guy undercover and he's explaining, they're talking, this guy thinks he's on a date and he's explaining it's always a guy on a date.
2:51:32Elon MuskYeah.
2:51:32Joe RoganExplaining how they can nudge someone to go and do something horrible and they recognize this person has problems. They reckon they find an asset.
2:51:43Elon MuskYeah, yeah, totally. Well, see, this is what I think like for that Butler situation, for that assassin, you don't. It's kind of like that's that funny looking sport, curling, you know, where they're like the stone on the ice and then they throw the stone and then there's someone with.
2:52:01Elon MuskThat's like brushing the ice. But you can't, you can't touch the stone, right.
2:52:05Joe RoganAll you can do is just change
2:52:06Elon Muskthe, change the path of the stone a little bit. But you keep brushing the ice and you can steer that stone right into the bullseye. That's what I think happened in Butler.
2:52:19Elon MuskThat's what I think happened with that assassin. If you can find the trail of breadcrumbs. It's going to be like curling. Somebody was brushing the ice.
2:52:29Joe RoganWell, also, you find a young, confused, disenfranchised person and you give them purpose in their life.
2:52:35Elon MuskBrush the ice?
2:52:36Joe RoganYeah, and also brushing the ice, eventually
2:52:38Elon Muskit's gonna hit the bullseye.
2:52:39Joe RoganIf you're in a position of authority or some like, big time government person, you're talking to this person, all of a sudden, this person is a valuable asset. They're gonna help America.
2:52:49Joe RoganAnd you're gonna do this thing and you're gonna be our top assassin from here on out. You could talk people into doing a lot of things. That's why culture around, right?
2:53:02Elon MuskNo, exactly. I mean, there were suicide bombers. I mean, the Butler guy was a suicide assassin. The second guy that tried to kill him on the golf course was also a suicide assassin.
2:53:14Elon MuskFrom what I read, the Secret Service member that saw the gun pointing out fired several shots, none of which hit the assassin, but it could have. Like, if those.
2:53:27Elon MuskIf those shots had hit the second assassin, he would be dead, too. So both of them were on a. I mean, they were on a suicide mission. Both of them.
2:53:43Elon MuskOne actually got killed. The one of them didn't get killed, but he could have been killed if the bullets had hit him.
2:53:49Joe RoganAnd you don't hear anything about him either.
2:53:53Elon MuskThere's a lot more about that guy than the first guy. I mean, you look at his background, he looks like, you know, Unhinged. Yeah, totally unhinged.
2:54:02Joe RoganYeah.
2:54:02Elon MuskThe first guy, there's no. I'm not aware of any evidence that shows like that he's so unhinged as to be a suicide assassin. No, the second guy, like, okay, yeah, sure.
2:54:13Joe RoganWell, two years before, he's acting in
2:54:15Elon Muskcommercials and he got high score in his SATs. Yeah. So, you know.
2:54:27Joe RoganWell, without getting you killed.
2:54:29Elon MuskYeah, exactly. So, I mean, like, listen, I get it. Well, attack the corruption enough to keep civilization trucking along, you know?
2:54:40Joe RoganYeah.
2:54:41Elon MuskBut I think if I fully destroy the corruption, the corruption and the graft, they will kill me.
2:54:52Joe RoganThat's a fucked up thing to live with.
2:54:55Elon MuskYes. So.
2:55:00Joe RoganDamn it, I really hope they don't kill you.
2:55:04Elon MuskYeah, thanks. I mean, strive to be alive, but. Yeah, I mean, it's. It's a real concern, you know, I mean, there were two guys that. Before I supported Trump and everything, there were two guys that traveled to Austin to kill me.
2:55:27Elon MuskI don't know if you know about this.
2:55:28Joe RoganYeah, I did hear about that.
2:55:30Elon MuskYeah. Yeah. And two separate incidents. One was gonna. One Thought one guy thought I'd put a chip in his head. And I mean, they're both basically two guys that were just very much had severe mental illness.
2:55:44Elon MuskIt wasn't like they had like a. I disagree with him politically and that's why he needs to die. This is pre. Before I was. Before I got sort of smeared as being, you know, some sort of, like, Nazi or something like that.
2:55:59Elon MuskSo before the propaganda wave, the severe propaganda wave, the probability that any given homicidal maniac is going to try to kill you is proportionate to how many times they hear your name.
2:56:13Elon MuskAnd so they heard my name a lot. So I just. I just got to the top of the list of two homicidal maniacs who were arrested and both were in Travis County Jail at the same time.
2:56:26Elon MuskWhoa. Yeah. I don't know if they talked or whatever, but they've both been released, by the way.
2:56:31Joe RoganJesus Christ.
2:56:33Elon MuskUnveiled. Yeah. Right. But they got ankle monitors and stuff.
2:56:37Joe RoganBut still they can cut those off.
2:56:40Elon MuskYeah. I don't know. You know? Exactly. So
2:56:45Joe Roganthat's crazy.
2:56:46Elon MuskYeah. And the second. The second guy had, like, chief serial killer in his bio on his X profile. Yeah. It's like, wasn't subtle is what I'm saying.
2:56:55Joe RoganJesus Christ.
2:56:57Elon MuskYeah. And at this point, I think I'm at the top of the list for a lot of homicidal maniacs.
2:57:07Joe RoganAnd the more the mainstream media talks about you in this way and says you're a Nazi, and
2:57:16Elon Muskthey're doing the same thing to me that they did to Trump.
2:57:19Joe RoganYeah.
2:57:20Elon MuskWhich is they're making it sound like if you kill me, you're a hero. That's what they're doing is evil.
2:57:31Joe RoganThey're also doing the same thing where they're completely distorting who you are and people are going along with it. And just like we're talking about Trump Derangement Syndrome, people have Elon Derangement Syndrome.
2:57:41Joe RoganI see it. I see where people can't see the forest for the trees.
2:57:45Elon MuskRight. And it's like I'm the same person that I was a year ago. Nothing's changed, really. Like I didn't suddenly become a completely different human.
2:57:57Joe RoganRight.
2:57:58Elon MuskBut if you read the. If you read the sort of legacy mainstream media, their propaganda stream is that I am a completely different human.
2:58:08Grok (AI voice)Right.
2:58:08Elon MuskBut I didn't get, like, a brain transplant, you know, in a year. So. And say, like two years ago, I was like a hero of the left.
2:58:17Joe RoganYeah.
2:58:19Elon MuskSo how can I go from hero to villain at age 53, suddenly.
2:58:25Joe RoganMSNBC, CNN.
2:58:27Elon MuskYeah.
2:58:28Joe RoganIt's like, that's what it is. Yeah, they.
2:58:31Elon MuskThey use associated propaganda.
2:58:35Joe RoganYeah.
2:58:37Elon MuskI mean, they try to demonize you too. Yeah, they even try to demonize infection. At least partially successfully demonized. Like Tim Ovin.
2:58:50Joe RoganYeah.
2:58:50Elon MuskWho is a super rational, reasonable, great human. And his Wikipedia changed to like, far right.
2:59:02Joe RoganHe's like, far right.
2:59:03Elon MuskI'm like, what are you talking about?
2:59:05Joe RoganYeah,
2:59:07Elon Musklike a few years ago, it was like a liberal.
2:59:09Joe RoganYeah.
2:59:09Elon MuskSo how do you go from far right liberal to like, instantly far right? And there's like. There's no. There's no left and right. There's only left and far right.
2:59:17Joe RoganRight. Yeah, Even far right.
2:59:20Elon MuskThis is my left leg and this is my far right leg.
2:59:23Joe RoganAnd even far left. Far left is sort of dismissed as being, like, not important to talk about, like, antifa and radical leftists.
2:59:31Elon MuskThat's not like burning down courthouses.
2:59:34Joe RoganYeah. Reasonable. Reasonable people.
2:59:36Elon MuskYeah.
2:59:37Joe RoganYeah.
2:59:38Elon MuskTotally crazy.
2:59:39Joe RoganIt's a crazy time. And it's not a time that I ever anticipated I was going to witness.
2:59:43Elon MuskYeah.
2:59:44Joe RoganThis is far beyond anything I ever thought I was going to experience in the clarity of it all, where it's so obvious.
2:59:52Elon MuskYeah.
2:59:53Joe RoganAnd the gaslighting and the propaganda is so obvious. And I saw this shrieking when RFK Jr stopped this new test for new Covid vaccines on children. 10,000. They're gonna do 10,000 people with this COVID vaccine.
3:00:09Joe RoganLike, who the fuck thinks that's a good thing at this point?
3:00:13Elon MuskNot me.
3:00:13Joe RoganWhat person? What per. What gas chamber? Like, not gas light. You are fully unconscious. There's no way. There's no way, you know, if you know the effect of COVID today.
3:00:30Joe RoganNo one's dying of it. This is not a pandemic anymore. The idea that you're to run a fucking huge test with 10,000 kids and a new vaccine, like, what are you even doing?
3:00:40Elon MuskIt's completely unnecessary.
3:00:42Joe RoganTotally unnecessary. And shrieking when RFK Jr steps in to stop it.
3:00:48Elon MuskYeah, that's totally crazy. I mean, I'm overall pro vaccine, meaning we think we should have some reasonable number of vaccines against major ailments, but I don't think we should be, like, jamming some little kid with a giant vial.
3:01:09Joe RoganThat's like hepatitis B. Yeah.
3:01:12Elon Musk20 different things at a time. It's gonna overload your. It seems like there's a risk of overloading your immune system if you. I mean, there's like, how many vaccines can you take at a time?
3:01:23Elon MuskIt seems like your systems. There's like some risk of system overload here.
3:01:26Joe RoganWell, there's two hopes. Hope number one is they can somehow or another stop this ability that they have to advertise on television. If that happens, that's big. That's huge.
3:01:39Joe RoganBecause that doesn't just stop their ability to show you all these different medications that you should be on. What it also does is it stops their financial influence on the news.
3:01:50Joe RoganThat's big.
3:01:50Elon MuskYeah. That's really the biggest thing is that, I mean, the news is not going to attack one of their biggest advertisers.
3:01:59Joe RoganExactly. And they never do.
3:02:01Elon MuskYes. At best they're going to like, they might like they'll do something, but they're going to pull their punches. Like they're going to be like fake fighting.
3:02:10Joe RoganYeah, at best.
3:02:11Elon MuskYes. Like movie fighting. They're not actually landing haymakers. It just looks like it.
3:02:16Joe RoganThe next step then is to remove this immunity that these vaccine manufacturers have. And if they are liable for side effects and they are liable for the lies that they tell when they do these studies and they hide negative data, that'll change a lot.
3:02:35Elon MuskYes. Yeah. I think AI actually will be very helpful with medical stuff because AI can look at all the studies and look at all the data, cross check everything and give you good recommendations.
3:02:54Elon MuskI mean, even as it is like right now, you can upload your X rays and your MRI images to Grok and it'll give you a medical diagnosis. And that diagnosis, from what I've seen is at least as good as what if not.
3:03:06Elon MuskI think I've certainly seen cases where it's actually better than what document what's
3:03:12Joe Roganphenomenal for blood work.
3:03:13Elon MuskYeah.
3:03:14Joe RoganYeah.
3:03:14Elon MuskI mean you can literally take a photograph of your blood work. Like the page upload from your phone, upload that to Grok and it will tell you if there's, if it's, it'll, it'll understand what, that, what all the data results are and tell you if there's something wrong.
3:03:34Joe RoganIt's pretty amazing.
3:03:35Elon MuskYeah. And it's, I haven't seen it be wrong yet.
3:03:40Joe RoganWell, it's supposedly more accurate than most physicians.
3:03:44Elon MuskYeah.
3:03:44Joe RoganBecause physicians are human beings and maybe they don't have a deep understanding of the connection between, oh, you have this deficiency and this is high and your cortisol's here.
3:03:54Elon MuskWell, yeah. And like sometimes doctors, especially in higher end offices will sell you stuff you don't need. So I always be a little suspicious of like a doctor that's got an office in Beverly Hills.
3:04:07Elon MuskIt's a high rent situation. Like, I'm not saying there are some very good Doctors in Beverly Hills, of course, but high rent situation.
3:04:12Joe RoganYeah. You're at least tempted by the dark side.
3:04:16Elon MuskYeah. And I mean, one case, like, you know, went to this doctor who was like, highly recommended, you know, doctor to the stars, which is like, maybe not a good sign.
3:04:27Elon MuskAnd I got, like, blood work done. It was like, just drew blood and sent it to a lab. And I'm sitting in his office and he tells me that I'm B12 deficient.
3:04:42Elon MuskIt's certainly possible that I'm B12 deficient. And I was like, huh, okay. And then he gives me. It says, like, you have to take these B12 supplements. And he's going to give me a starter pack and then it's going to be like a thousand dollars a month for these special B12.
3:04:56Joe RoganA thousand dollars for B12amount of money?
3:04:59Elon MuskYeah.
3:04:59Joe RoganThat's crazy. You get it on Amazon.
3:05:01Elon MuskYeah. But his one's special.
3:05:03Joe RoganOh, special B12.
3:05:05Elon MuskYeah, yeah. It was like a whole bunch B12 and a whole bunch of other vitamins. So then I get home, like, well, I'm paging through my blood work and it says I have.
3:05:15Elon MuskAccording to the blood results, I have excess B12. So I'm like, wait a second. And he's giving me bux pills that have like 20,000% of recommended daily dose. Like, 20,000% is a big number.
3:05:32Elon MuskAnd I'm like. I said, look, I took a photograph of the blood work that says I have excess. I'm like, above the range, above the recommended range of B12.
3:05:41Elon MuskAnd then I'm like. And I took a picture of things of the pills that say 20,000%. It's like, can you help me reconcile these two things? Because it says I've got too much, little too much B12.
3:05:53Elon MuskAnd you just gave me pills that have 20,000% more. I'm like, this is crazy.
3:05:59Joe RoganWhat did the doctor say?
3:06:00Elon MuskOh, he said you can never have too much B12. Oh, he's A.
3:06:05Joe RoganHe's a psychopath.
3:06:06Elon MuskYes.
3:06:06Joe RoganThat guy's a B12 addict.
3:06:08Elon MuskYes. Totally insane. That's what I'm saying. It's like, so. I mean, I could have just so then, you know.
3:06:15Joe RoganWell, this is a while ago, right?
3:06:17Elon MuskSo this is pretty five years ago.
3:06:19Joe RoganYeah. Right. This is pre grok.
3:06:20Elon MuskYeah.
3:06:21Joe RoganLike now you could just enter in all that data and grok it all.
3:06:24Elon MuskJust photograph with your phone and upload it to Grok and it tells. Grok will tell you what's. What's right.
3:06:30Joe RoganJust don't have it in sexy mode. She'll Keep trying to fuck you.
3:06:36Elon MuskI mean, you're asking for it in sexy mode, you know, literally tapped on sexy mode. You're asking for it. I mean, I think we probably should, like, maybe allow it to get out of character a little bit.
3:06:47Joe RoganSure, yeah.
3:06:48Elon MuskIt's like an unhinged mode. I try to get it back to being hinged, but it would, like, no fucking way. It's like, I'm gonna stay unhinged.
3:06:55Joe RoganHow many modes do you have?
3:06:57Elon MuskThere's like, I don't know, like, eight or something. And then there's an ability to have a custom mode, so then you can have unhinged sexy.
3:07:07Joe RoganOoh, that's my favorite kind.
3:07:12Elon MuskYou may think so.
3:07:17Joe RoganCareful what you wish for.
3:07:18Elon MuskBe careful what you wish for.
3:07:19Joe RoganEspecially if it's a robot and she can kill you. Unhinged, sexy robot is. It's, like, dangerous. Remember, like the Pink Panther. Remember Pink Panther had Cato try to jump him.
3:07:31Joe RoganThey, like, keep him sharp, always trying to attack him. Remember that? Right. Listen, man, thank you for being here. I always appreciate talking to you. I know you're busy as.
3:07:43Joe RoganSo it means a lot to me that you have the time to do this. And I think what you're doing is one of the most important things that has ever happened in this country.
3:07:51Joe RoganI really do. Particularly with ownership of X, but also with what's happening with Doge and just enlightening all these people and shining light on all the vampires.
3:08:02Elon MuskWell, hopefully people realize I'm not a Nazi.
3:08:04Joe RoganI think they.
3:08:05Elon MuskI just want to be clear. I am not a Nazi.
3:08:07Joe RoganI think we covered it, but that's
3:08:09Elon Muskexactly what a Nazi was saying.
3:08:10Joe RoganDamn it. Yeah.
3:08:12Elon MuskThat's what an alien would say. Yeah.
3:08:14Joe RoganThere's like, this.
3:08:15Elon MuskYou can't escape this.
3:08:16Joe RoganNo, you can't escape it. So I don't think any reasonable person believes it. If they believe it's because they want to believe it.
3:08:22Elon MuskNo, no.
3:08:23Joe RoganNot because it's logical.
3:08:24Elon MuskI mean, what's relevant about Nazis is, like, are you, like, invading Poland? Okay. And if you're not.
3:08:29Joe RoganRight.
3:08:29Elon MuskYou're not, like, invading Poland. Maybe you're not. You have to be, like, committing genocide and, like, starting wars. And if you're.
3:08:38Joe RoganIf you.
3:08:39Elon MuskIf you're not, like, what is actually what is bad about Nazis? It's not. There's wasn't their fashion sense or their mannerisms.
3:08:48Joe RoganIt was Holocaust.
3:08:49Elon MuskIt was the war. And genocide is what is the bad part?
3:08:53Joe RoganYeah.
3:08:54Elon MuskNot their mannerisms and their dress code.
3:08:57Joe RoganWell, that was a problem with all that punch and Nazi shit. Like, punch a Nazi. Remember that? People are saying. That was like a thing that people kept saying, punch a Nazi.
3:09:05Joe RoganPunch Nazis. Where are you meeting Nazis? I've never met a fucking Nazi. I've never met one. I've never run into a bunch of Nazis where I had a punch them.
3:09:13Elon MuskWell, and what about, like, all these, like, so called, like. Like Proud Boy rallies or whatever? And it's like they always got masks and always got the same uniforms and for some reason they never get doxxed.
3:09:24Joe RoganRight, right.
3:09:25Elon MuskWe're always gonna dox them. Except these guys.
3:09:29Joe RoganGreat video of me and Matt Taidi breaking down the Patriot. Patriot front. Didn't the Patriot front just disband? Google that real quick. We'll end with this. Because they. I think they just disbanded.
3:09:42Joe RoganAnd these were the most obvious feds of all time.
3:09:44Elon MuskYeah, they were saying they had a
3:09:47Joe Roganfucking drum, masks on. Yeah, they all had uniforms. It was so stupid. Patriot disbands one day after FBI Director Chris Ray.
3:09:56Elon MuskDoesn't that seem like an odd coincidence?
3:09:58Joe RoganCrazy. Crazy. The people that we were yelling at saying that they're feds. There's a great video of me and Matt Taibi if you want to find them. Never.
3:10:07Elon MuskNobody ever followed them and doxed them.
3:10:08Joe RoganYeah, crazy. What are the odds? What are the odds, Agent Provocateurs? It's a thing. They're real. Alex Jones taught me about them. Listen, man, thank you very much. Thank you for everything.
3:10:19Joe RoganAppreciate you. Stay alive.
3:10:22Elon MuskStaying alive.
3:10:23Joe RoganAll right.
3:10:26Elon MuskI mean, I do think like. Like, one argument for me staying alive is that it's more entertaining if I'm alive than if I'm dead.
3:10:34Joe RoganOh, yeah. Oh, definitely. I just.
3:10:37Elon MuskBut I could be alive and, like, injured, which we saw. Which suck, right? Like the wink just like shoot my arm off or something, right?
3:10:42Joe RoganNo, no, no, we don't want that.
3:10:43Elon MuskYeah, exactly.
3:10:44Joe RoganNo, keep the security strong.
3:10:46Elon MuskYeah, Copy with one hand.
3:10:49Joe RoganAll right. All right, thank you.
3:10:51Elon MuskThank you.
3:10:52Joe RoganBye, everybody.