World Artificial Intelligence Conference
Questions on ElonsFAQ asked in this interview (10)
Transcript
0:00ModeratorAt Tesla and Jack Ma, the co chair of the UN High Level panel on Digital cooperation. Let's give them a very big applause.
0:15ModeratorWelcome. Great to have both of you here with us today. The session is actually much awaited. We've already posted some of the key words of the questions on the big screen and later on you can just click the word you're interested in to talk about.
0:30ModeratorNow the stage is yours.
0:37Elon MuskWhat are you supposed to say? Just things about AI perhaps. Okay, let's see
0:46Jack Mathe AI. Right, you want to start?
0:48Elon MuskAI yeah. Okay, great. AI. Yeah. Actually I'm told that. Does AI mean love? There's like a name, AI. It sort of sounds a bit like love.
1:02Jack MaYeah, AI. I hate the word AI Called artificial intelligence. I call it Alibaba Intelligence.
1:09Elon MuskYeah. Might end up being true. You never know. I think generally people underestimate the, the capability, capability of AI. They sort of think like it's a smart human, but it's, it's really much, it's going to be much more than that.
1:31Elon MuskIt'll be much smarter than the smartest human. I mean, it'll be like, you know, if, like. Can a chimpanzee really understand humans? Not really. You know, we just seem like strange aliens.
1:49Elon MuskThey mostly just care about other chimpanzees and this will be how it is more or less in a relative. In fact, if it's, if the difference is only that small, that would be amazing.
1:59Elon MuskIt probably is much, much greater. So like, like the biggest mistake that I see artificial intelligence researchers making is assuming that they're intelligent. Yeah, they're not compared to AI and so a lot of them cannot imagine something smarter than themselves.
2:19Elon MuskBut AI will be vastly smarter. Vastly.
2:26Elon MuskSo what do you do with a situation like that? What do you do with a situation like that? I'm not sure. You know, I hope they're nice. I mean, I have obviously some, you know, I think in a situation where if you, you know the old saying, if you can't, if you can't beat them, join them.
2:46Elon MuskYou know, that's what neuralink is about, is like, can we go be, go along for the ride with AI? I mean, I really think that there should be other companies like neuralink essentially to create a high bandwidth interface to the brain.
3:06Elon MuskBecause right now we are already a cyborg. People don't realize we are already a cyborg because we are so well integrated with our phones and our computers. The phone is almost like an extension of yourself.
3:21Elon MuskIf you forget your phone, it's like a missing limb. But the bandwidth the communication bandwidth to the phone is very low, especially input. So in fact, input bandwidth to computers has actually gone down because of typing with two thumbs as opposed to ten fingers is a big reduction in bandwidth.
3:45Elon MuskInput bandwidth has gone up because of video and imagery. So input bandwidth is many orders of magnitude greater than output bandwidth that at a certain point, if we were just assuming a benign scenario with AI, we will just be too slow.
4:06Elon MuskYou know, it's like if a millisecond to something, let's say a computer that has like an exaflop of, you know, many exaflops of compute capability, a millisecond is an eternity.
4:20Elon MuskAnd to us it's nothing. So, you know, I always think like human speech to a computer will sound like very slow tonal wheezing. It's kind of like whale sounds.
4:34Jack MaYeah.
4:34Elon MuskYou know, because what's our bandwidth? A few hundred bits per second, basically. Maybe a few kilobits per second, if you're going to be generous. So whereas a computer can you easily communicate at a terabyte level.
4:49Elon MuskSo the computer will just get impatient. If nothing else, it would be like talking to a tree. That's humans. Yeah. Anyway, on that great note, barely getting any information out, basically with speech.
5:03Jack MaYeah. I'm always amazed by what your vision about the technology. I'm not a tech guy. I think more about life. I think AI is going to open a new chapter of the society of the world that people try to understand ourselves better rather than the outside world.
5:25Jack MaAnd it's so difficult to predict the future. 99.99% of the predictions the human being had in history about the future, all wrong.
5:38Elon MuskIncluding that one.
5:39Jack MaOh yeah. Only, you know, the 0.00% of the prediction are right. They're right because by accident.
5:49Elon MuskYeah. But it's also true that 80% of statistics are false.
5:52Jack MaYeah. So my meaning.
5:55Elon MuskCold room. Come on, guys. It was a joke.
6:00Jack MaI'm happy about the artificial intelligence or Alibaba intelligence that's going to understand a human, the inside of the human better. So when people worry a lot about artificial intelligence, people should have more confidence in themselves.
6:17Jack MaBecause I think if a lot of solutions we don't have today, but there will be solutions tomorrow. We don't have solutions, but the young people will have solutions. So I'm quite optimistic.
6:31Jack MaAnd I don't think artificial intelligence is a threat. I don't think artificial intelligence is something terrible, but human being are smart enough to learn that. And to me, artificial intelligence is just like people worry a lot about this today are those people, I call them called college smartness.
6:57Jack MaPeople like us, street smart, we never scared of that. We think it's a great fun and we want to change ourselves to embrace it.
7:06Elon MuskI don't know, man, that's like famous last words. Let me tell you, AI is, I mean, you look at sort of the rate of advancement, just in general, the rate of advancement of computers is insane.
7:22Elon MuskLike a good example would be video games. If you go back 40 years ago, 50 years ago, maybe you had pong that was just two rectangles in a square.
7:33Elon MuskNow you've got photorealistic real time simulations with millions of people playing simultaneously. If you assume any rate of improvement at all, these games will be indistinguishable from reality. You will not be able to tell the difference.
7:46Elon MuskEither that or civilization will end. Those are the two options. But even if the rate of technology improvement slowed down by a thousand, then, okay, advance a thousand years or 10,000 years, this is still very tiny.
8:03Elon MuskCivilization has been around for probably, arguably, I think 7,000 years or something like that. If you count it from the first time there was any writing, any recorded symbols besides cave paintings.
8:17Elon MuskThere's a very tiny amount of time considering the universe is 13.8 billion years old. I mean, if civilization lasted for a million years, we would only increment the third decimal point after 13.8 billion years.
8:34Elon MuskIf we lasted for a million years. So that seems like a long time given that we've only been around for 7,000 years. It's been pretty. It's been kind of a roller coaster on the civilization front.
8:52Elon MuskSo, I mean, I'm not trying to be. I'm a naturally optimistic person, to be clear. I'm not saying, hey, doom and gloom, I'm just saying this is the apparent pattern.
9:05Elon MuskThe rate of change of technology is incredibly fast. It is outpacing our ability to understand it. Well, I'm not sure is that good or bad. I don't know. I mean, it seemed to me some time ago that you could sort of think of humanity as a biological bootloader for digital superintelligence.
9:26Elon MuskIf you, for those who know what a bootloader is, a very tiny piece of code without which the, the computer cannot start. But it's sort of like the minimal bit of code necessary for a computer to start.
9:40Elon MuskLike you couldn't evolve silicon circuits. They needed to be biology to get there.
9:50Jack MaGood.
9:51Elon MuskYeah.
9:52Jack MaWell, let's talk about something fun. I admire that. You want to go on the Mars? Shall we go to the Mars? Yeah. So what will the life look like on Mars?
10:04Jack MaAre you both moving? What do you think about that? Actually, I'm not interested in Mars. I just came back from there. So I'm more interested on the Earth, the things, what's going on, happening here.
10:18Jack MaSo why you are so curious about the Mars?
10:24Elon MuskWell, I think the thing about Mars is that I think it's important for us to take the set of actions that are most likely to continue consciousness into the future.
10:38Elon MuskWhat increases the probability of consciousness of continuing into the future? I think we should not take it for granted that consciousness will continue because we have not encountered any aliens.
10:51Elon MuskWhere are the aliens? This is the Fermi paradox. This is one of the most important questions. How come we've not found any aliens? There's people out there who think we've found aliens.
10:59Elon MuskTrust me, I would know. We have not. Okay. People ask me, you've been to Area 51, okay, please. SpaceX actually has Area 59. It's even better. Eight better than 51.
11:14Elon MuskSo.
11:18Elon MuskAmong the set of actions we can take that are likely to increase the scope and scale of consciousness such that we are better able to understand the nature of the universe.
11:28Elon MuskOne of those actions is to become a multi planet species or ensure that life is multi planetary. Not because I think something that it's not from the standpoint of it just being an escape hatch or because I think that Earth is doomed.
11:44Elon MuskBut there's a certain probability that is irreducible that something may happen to Earth. Despite our best intentions, despite everything we try to do, there's a probability at a certain point that some either external force or some internal unforced error causes civilization to be destroyed or sufficiently impaired such that it can no longer extend to another planet.
12:13Elon MuskIt's hard to say. Let me put it another way. This is the first time in the four and a half billion year history of Earth that it's been possible to extend life beyond Earth.
12:26Elon MuskBefore this it was not possible. How long will this window be open? It may be open for a long time or it may be open for a short time.
12:35Elon MuskI think it would be wise to assume that it is open for a short time and then let us secure the future. Secure the future of consciousness such that the light of consciousness is not extinguished.
12:51Elon MuskAnd we should try to do this as quickly as possible. That's my view.
12:57Jack MaGood. It's so difficult to secure the future of the Earth, but we can secure the future of next 100 years. I'm not a person that I admire your courage for.
13:09Jack MaExplore the Mars. But I admire a lot of people spend efforts on improving the Earth. It's great to send 1 million people to the Mars. But we have to care about the 7.4 billion people on the Earth.
13:22Jack MaHow can we make the world more sustainable? And I'm not that fond of the Mars because I think it's easy to go to the Mars. When you go on the top of the hills on of the building.
13:34Jack MaJust one step you go to Mars, but you will never be able to come back.
13:38Elon MuskYeah, but that's my view.
13:41Jack MaAnd also don't do it. I hate to go to Himalayas too. I mean when you climb on the. I think someday I would go there. When the elevator is ready, I will go there.
13:53ModeratorHave a look.
13:54Jack MaBut I think people spending more time on the earth sitting think about. Because no matter how long the civilization of the human beings will be like 1 million or 2 million or half million years.
14:08Jack MaWe only have 100 years. So we cannot solve all the problems for future. But we have to be responsible for the future. But we should care more about how we can enjoy better.
14:21Jack MaMy view is that by the artificial intelligence or AI when human being understand ourselves better then we can improve the world better. Last 200 years human being tried to understand the other side world better.
14:37Jack MaUnderstand the other people better. But I think what I feel excited about AI is AI is to understand people the inside of the human beings the Earth. I heard you're going to dig a tunnel and deep in the earth with which is amazing.
14:54Jack MaI think anyhow, every time when I read the news about you are interested in the outside space. I look at you with great respect. We need heroes like you.
15:08Jack MaBut we need more heroes like us. Working hard on the Earth, improving things every day. That's what I want.
15:15Elon MuskSure. I mean to be clear, I'm very pro us. Great, that sounds great. To be clear, I'm very pro earth when I say, you know, us becoming a multi planet species or making life multi.
15:29Elon MuskExtending life beyond Earth. Expanding the scope and scale of consciousness. From a resource standpoint I'm talking about less than 1% of Earth's resources should be dedicated to making life multi planetary or making consciousness more multi planetary.
15:46Elon MuskSo you know, I think it should be like somewhere in between how much we spend on lipstick and how much we spend on healthcare. Like you know things like for the preservation of consciousness.
15:57Elon MuskWe should spend maybe slightly more than we spend on. On cosmetics. That's my. You know and I'm pro cosmetics. I like. They're great. But. But you know, there's probably worth spending, I don't know, some like at least half a percent over of Earth GDP on extending life to be multi planetary.
16:16Elon MuskMaybe 1%, I'd say seems like a good, a good use of resources and but in 19, you know, you have like two orders magnitude more resources spent on Earth.
16:26Elon MuskSo it's not like it's you know, somehow going to fundamentally impair Earth. Like I said, Just 1% of Earth resources on that order should be enough to make life multi planetary.
16:38Elon MuskSeems like a wise investment for the future. And obviously I spend a lot of my time on sustainable energy with Tesla with electric cars and solar and batteries and that kind of thing.
16:52Elon MuskAnd I'm really excited to be here in Shanghai for the Shanghai gigafactory which is, I think that Tesla China team has done an amazing job. Really mind blowing. Like I'm just astounded by how good the job is and how much progress has been made.
17:11Elon MuskAnd I think it's a good story for the world. And to say like look, look how much progress you can make in China. This is extremely impressive. Like my hat is off, you know, you guys rock.
17:24Elon MuskSo I've never seen anything built so fast in my life before, to be totally frank. Seen some crazy things. So you know, I think it's like I really think China is the future.
17:37Elon MuskThat's very impressive. And there's also some great progress on entrepreneurial rocket companies in China as well. I believe two have made orbit and it's very difficult, very hard to make orbit.
17:52Elon MuskAchieving orbit. I have great respect. It was very hard.
17:58Jack MaYou want to pick up another topic? Sure, yeah.
18:03Elon MuskJobs, jobs jobs or life jobs? Sure, anything. Sure.
18:10Jack MaSo what new jobs will be created because of AI or has the change already started? What do you think? I think why we needed that many jobs. Right. My view is that the jobs actually every technology revolution people start to Worry, right.
18:30Jack MaLast 200 years we worry about the new technology going to take away all the jobs. Actually we made a lot of jobs. Second because of the industrial revolution job created a lot of jobs.
18:43Jack MaWhat I think is the next 20, 30 years human being will live much longer. The life science technology is going to make people live probably 100, 120 years. That may not be a good thing because you got a grandfather's grandfather still working hard.
19:00Jack MaBut the challenge is my question why should we have a lot of jobs? I think people should work three days a week, four hours a day when we have electricity.
19:15Jack MaThe power of electricity is that we make people more time. So you can go to the kalaoke in the evening, you can go to dancing party in the evening.
19:24Jack MaSo people, because of electricity, people have more time. I think because of artificial intelligence people will have more time. Enjoy being human beings in your life. In my life I think I visited probably 300 cities in my life.
19:43Jack MaMy father visited 30 cities, my grandfather visited only three cities. So my grandchildren probably will visit 3,000 cities. All his life he's always on the Tesla, he's always on the Rovers, always traveling around.
20:01Jack MaSo I don't think we need a lot of jobs at that time. The jobs we need is make people happier, make people experience the life, enjoy the human beings.
20:12Jack MaSo I don't worry about the jobs a lot. First, we are going to have a lot of jobs. Second, we don't need a lot of jobs. Third, there is a very interesting thing because we will probably talk about life.
20:30Jack MaIn the agriculture period, average age is like 30, 35 years old. In the industrial period, technology revolution, people can live 70 years. So in the artificial intelligence period, people can live 120 years.
20:47Jack MaThat's, I think now the problem comes when people's life is getting better. People don't want to have children. When your grand grandfather is there, you don't want to have children.
21:00Jack MaAt that time we are going to have a lot of jobs with nobody want to do it. So we need artificial intelligence, the robots to take care of the old guys.
21:10Jack MaFor sure you will not be happy or you were happy because when your grand grandfather said oh, I need to work tomorrow, then that's a disaster. So I think we cannot predict the future, but we should be ready that we are going to enter into the area that Everybody can live 120 years and we have more new problems that come up.
21:38Jack MaSo that's my view about jobs. Don't worry about it. You will have jobs.
21:45Elon MuskYeah,
21:50Elon MuskI think, yeah, over time AI will make jobs kind of pointless. Probably the last job that will remain will be doing writing AI software and then eventually the AI will just write its own software.
22:05Elon MuskSo I don't know, I suppose I would recommend studying engineering, physics, that kind of thing, or working on something where people just want to interact with other people and people enjoy fundamentally interacting with other people.
22:22Elon MuskSo if you're working on something that involves people or engineering, it's probably a good approach, you know, art, of course. Yeah. Like I said, I think we're going to have to figure out this neuralink situation, otherwise we will be left behind.
22:51Elon MuskIt's very important we do this quickly. Time we don't have much Time.
23:00Jack MaWe don't have much time of what?
23:02Elon MuskWe don't have much time to solve the neuralink. Yeah, yeah. Think of, like technology, like technology and technology awareness. There's like. It's like if there was like a topological map of technology awareness, it's mostly flat with a few short buildings and then some very tall spires.
23:26Elon MuskVery tall spires. And unless you're on that very tall spire, it's not obvious what the topology is.
23:35Jack MaYeah. I never worry about the things that I cannot solve. I left other people to solve it. If nobody can solve it, just let it be. That's my life.
23:46Jack MaOh, let's talk about education. I'm quite interested about education. Can we? Yeah. So what knowledge or skills will be useful to master the future? Do you have any advice for young professionals who want to pursue a career in AI?
24:05Jack MaYoung professionals? I don't think we will have professionals on AI in the future. Well, I worry a lot about people, worry about jobs, but I worry about education. All the education systems, the things we teach our kids, the way we teach our kids, are mainly designed for the industry, period.
24:30Jack MaAnd I'm sure the machine will be much cleverer than human beings in the future. How can human being do better? Human beings should be smarter. Human beings should be wiser.
24:44Jack MaSo how can we be human beings to be wiser or smarter? I think that we should change the way of education, change the things. Because in the past we focused a lot about, you know, remember things computer can remember better than you are.
25:02Jack MaWant to calculate the faster. Computer can run, can calculate much faster. We want to run faster. Computer can run much faster than you are. So human beings should have confidence by being more creative, more constructive.
25:17Jack MaSo how can we teach our kids to be more creative and constructive? And I think this is the key of the education. And I want spending more time on training kids on arts, on painting, on singing, on dancing.
25:37Jack MaYou know, all these are the creative things that make people live like humans. Don't worry about machines. For sure. We should understand one thing that man can never make another man.
25:56Jack MaComputer is a computer. Computer is just a toy. Man cannot even make a mosquito. So we should have confidence. Computer only have chips. Men have the heart. It's the heart, where the wisdom comes from.
26:12Jack MaSo I think in the next 10 or 20 years, human beings or every country, every government, should focus on reform the education system, making sure our kids be able to find jobs in the future, be able to live in a life that only work three days a week, four hours a day.
26:36Jack MaAnd that is very Important, if we do not change the education system that we are in, we are all going to be in trouble. That's my view. And don't worry about it, we will change it.
26:50Elon MuskYeah, you know, I would say try to learn as much, as much as possible. That allows you to predict the future or make the future. So the saying is the best way to predict the future.
27:06Elon MuskFuturists make it and then assess whether what you're learning is enabling you to predict the future with less error. Are you less wrong? We're always wrong to some degree.
27:24Elon MuskBut can you reduce the error on your future predictions? I think that's the way to look at education,
27:34Jack Maof course.
27:34Elon MuskBut it's both creative create the future and predict the future. So that includes art and all those other things. But close the loop on being less wrong about future.
27:47Elon MuskI would say that's the right way to think about education. I mean down the road with a neuralink, you can just upload any subject instantly. So we like the Matrix.
27:58Elon MuskYou want to fly a helicopter? No problem. Well, helicopters will fly themselves, but you know, if you wanted to do whatever, any given skill, you just upload it instantly.
28:09Elon MuskAnd the way education works right now, it's extremely low bandwidth, it's extremely slow. Lectures are the worst. Really. It's like very slow.
28:26Elon MuskYeah, Just try to predict the future with less error. This is the hard. This is very hard. As you were saying, I'm not sure it's 99.9%, but it's not very good, generally a prediction of the future.
28:39Elon MuskBut I think often people don't try. The first thing is try. If you don't try, okay, you've got to try and then adjust based on the error of your prior predictions.
28:53Jack MaYeah, I think just to try is very good. We should always have the confidence to try the future. And I never worry about the errors and the mistakes, errors and mistakes that are the best assets of human lives and humans.
29:08Jack MaI think when people worry about the disasters that AI is going to bringing, I think it's not the disasters, it's the mistakes that human beings make and trust human beings will be able to correct the mistakes and improve themselves and that we need education.
29:27Jack MaAnd this is what we think. China Today we have 1800 new babies born every year, which is not enough. We need to have much more than that. But I think the best resources of the human beings or the best resources on the earth are not the coals, not the oil, not the electricity.
29:53Jack MaIt's the human brains. How can we make the human brains more creative? Constructive. How can we. Making sure that the machines are always the toys and tools of humans rather than the control.
30:08Jack MaSo I never, in my life, and especially last two years, when people talk about AI, say human. Human being will be controlled by machines. I never think about that.
30:19Jack MaI think it's.
30:20Elon MuskIt's.
30:20Jack MaIt's. It's impossible.
30:23ModeratorRight?
30:23Jack MaIt's impossible because. Because human beings, they are different machines invented by human beings. And according to the science. Right. Humans can never create another animal that is smarter than humans.
30:42Jack MaEspecially when you have so many smart people, it's impossible to make another smart people.
30:47Elon MuskI very much disagree with that.
30:49Jack MaOkay.
30:49Elon MuskYeah, that's good. Yeah. I mean, the first thing we should assume is that we are very dumb and we can definitely make things smarter than ourselves. I mean, they didn't used to be humans, Right.
31:03Elon MuskSo then our early civilization was very primitive. We didn't have any technology, really. We're just, like, running around, you know, trying to not get eaten or trying to survive a winter.
31:16Elon MuskNow we have, like, heating and we grow food. This is all new stuff. So, you know, things have obviously gotten way more smarter than the past. Way smarter. So that's going to continue.
31:28Elon MuskWe are not the last step in evolution. So the most important thing, like I said, the most important mistake I see smart people making is assuming that they're smart.
31:38Elon MuskThey're not.
31:39Jack MaYeah. So give me example. What animals or things that a human being made that is smarter than human beings?
31:48Elon MuskWell, computers actually are already much smarter than people on so many dimensions. We just keep moving the goalposts. So we used to think like, for example, being good at chess was an example of a smart human.
31:59Elon MuskAnd then Kasparov was crushed by deep blue in 97. That was a long time ago. 22 years. I mean, right now, your cell phone could crush the world champion at chess.
32:11Elon MuskLiterally. Go. Used to be thought of as something that humans were better at than computers. Then Lisa doll was beaten 4:1 by AlphaZero. Then a new version of AlphaZero.
32:26Elon MuskI, sorry, should say AlphaGo. AlphaGo beat Lisa. Dolph worn. Then there's AlphaZero. AlphaZero crushed. AlphaGo hundred to zero. Now it's just pointless because it just keeps playing itself. Humans are trying to play a computer.
32:41Jack MaGo.
32:41Elon MuskIs like trying to fight Zeus. It's not going to work. Hopeless. We are hopeless. Hopelessly inadequate in terms of rendering. Basically, there's just a smaller and smaller corner of intellectual pursuits that humans are better than computers and that every year it gets smaller and smaller and soon we will be Far, far surpassed in every single way.
33:10Elon MuskGuaranteed or civilizational end. Those are the two possibilities.
33:15Jack MaOkay. Yeah. My view is that computer may be clever, but human being are much smarter. Yeah, definitely not clever. Is very academic. Is knowledge driven smarter? Is experience driven.
33:33Jack MaComputer is smart, is clever, but it's human being. We invented a computer. I never see a computer invented a human being. This is my first point. Second point is that about gold play chairs.
33:51Jack MaIt's stupid to compete with a computer on play Go. Just like a hundred years ago where human being created cars. So human beings say, I can run faster than a car.
34:06Jack MaIt's impossible. It's only stupid people to compete with a car who run faster. Go is designed for human to play with human. Right. The chess is designed for human to human.
34:20Jack MaWhy should a human to fight against a computer? So I never ever played chess or go with computer. I'll be happy to see two computers fight each other. I'm not interested in play go with chess.
34:40Jack MaSo I told those guys they are very sad. Computer will be smarter than human beings because computer can play chess better. I think you are stupid to compete with that.
34:53Jack MaDon't do that. So this is. We always do things we are good at.
34:59Elon MuskSure. Okay, well, what would be an example of something that humans are better than a computer at? And, and then let's see if that happens.
35:07Jack MaWell, humans computer is only one of the clever tools that human created. And computers are clever. But there will be more tools that human beings will created much clever than computers.
35:27Jack MaThat's my view.
35:31Elon MuskOkay, well, let me tell you, like my view on the on AI is essentially the. You can view the advancement of AI as solving things with increasing numbers of degrees of increasing degrees of freedom.
35:44Elon MuskSo the, the thing that the thing with the most most degrees of freedom is reality. But AI is steadily advanced solving things that have more and more degrees of freedom.
35:57Elon MuskSo obviously something like Checkers was very easy to solve that we could solve with classical software, classical computing, not really all that challenging. And in fact there is a complete solution for checkers.
36:13Elon MuskMeaning it is literally, literally impossible. Every, every version of Checkers is known. And then there's chess, which is also, was also. It had many, many more degrees of freedom than checkers.
36:31Elon MuskMany orders of magnitude more than checkers, but still really, I would say a low order of magnitude lower degree of freedom game. Then there's Go, which had many orders of magnitude more degrees of freedom than chess.
36:47Elon MuskSo it's really just stepping through orders of magnitude of degrees of freedom. This is the way to I think view the advancement of intelligence. And it's really going to get to the point where it just can completely simulate a person in every way possible.
37:04Elon MuskLike many people simultaneously. In fact, I mean obviously there's a strong argument we're in a simulation right now. Sort of reminds me of that joke of like, you know, if life was a video game, what would be the review?
37:19Elon MuskIt's like, well, the graphics are incredible. The plot is confusing. The respawn takes a long time. That's a video game. That's life and fly for the video game. Respawn takes.
37:33Elon MuskTakes 20 years to spawn a human being and have them be fully conscious. I'm worried about the birth rate which you alluded to earlier. Contrary to like most people think we, we have like too many people on the planet.
37:49Elon MuskBut actually this is, this is an outdated view. This is the, the assuming that AI is fine, assuming that AI is there's a benevolent future with AI I think that the biggest problem the world will face in 20 years is population collapse collapse.
38:06Elon MuskI want to emphasize this. The biggest issue in 20 years will be population collapse, not explosion collapse. It's very easy to see what the world will look like in 20 years because humans have a 20 year boot sequence.
38:23Elon MuskSo like you said, okay, well who was born last year? Okay, now you know what the world looked like in 20 years. It's that easy.
38:29Jack MaI absolutely agree with that. The population problem is going to be facing huge challenge. 1.4 billion people in China sounds a lot, but I think next 20 years we'll see.
38:41Jack MaThis thing will bring big trouble to China and the population decreasing of the whole. The speed of population decreasing is going to speed up.
38:52Elon MuskNow you call it collapse accelerating class, accelerating collapse. And then the common rebuttal is like, well what about immigration? Like from where you know, you want
39:04Jack Mato go to space. You know, the Mars, the Mars will immigrate.
39:07Elon MuskYeah, like Mars needs people. Mars these people. You know, there's zero people there right now. So right now it's the machine planet. There's only some robots there.
39:15Jack MaThis is something that we should pay special attention. That's why the 18 million new babies born in China, which was less than like only like 1% or something. We should spend more time, create these people and treat life better.
39:32Jack MaBut also I think about AI there's another thing which Elon I in my company, in our company AI we call Alibaba intelligence because we, we think when things with order, with things with logic machine can do always do better.
39:50Jack MaA, I can do better. But if things without Order without logic, human being can do better. For example, when you love somebody, there's no reason. Normally I just love him or just love her, I have no reason.
40:03Jack MaBut when I hate somebody, when I want to do bad things on something somebody, there's a logic. And when there is a logic, AI can do better. What we do on our end financing.
40:16Jack MaWe teach machine all the bad things that bad guys want to do. Machine can learn quickly and arrest all the bad guys immediately. But when you want to do good things, not necessary.
40:30Elon MuskAI means love.
40:36Jack MaThat's absolutely right. So that is why the world the AIs. If the. If the AI can bring love, which I call it in the past, if you are be successful person, you have to be L, the EQ and iq.
40:49Jack MaRight? In the future, if you want to survive in this world, you have to be the lq, the Q of love. That's important too. Otherwise you cannot survive in that intelligence time.
41:03Elon MuskI agree with Love is the answer. Yeah, many songs about that.
41:06Jack MaYou want to pick up the final one. Another another topic.
41:10ModeratorExcuse me gentlemen, due to the time is very limited. So we only have five minutes left. So last question please.
41:16Jack MaYeah, we have a. You want to pick up the last life or human being? Machine. So you want to talk about your cars, automotive autonomy. What do you want to talk?
41:31Elon MuskThis feels like one of those steps in a video game where you've got like pick a path. The choice. I choose life.
41:37Jack MaOkay, life. So how much longer do you think people can live for with the help of AI? Can AI help with environment sustainability? Can you?
41:55Elon MuskWell, I think first of all, I think humans will solve environmental sustainability. I do not mean to suggest complacency or that we just take it easy. In fact, this is a self fulfilling or unfulfilling prophecy.
42:08Elon MuskWe must take immediate and dramatic action and continue the momentum towards environmental sustainability. And trying to is actually the world leader in this. In fact, I'm not sure how well it is known outside of China just how much China is a world leader in environmental sustainability.
42:27Elon MuskIt's extremely impressive. I mean I think half of all the electric cars in the world were made in China last year, something like that. So you know. So I don't mean to suggest complacency, but I do think humans can and will solve sustainability.
42:46Elon MuskIf we can do the neural lace, then I think or the neural link, essentially the age will not matter that much. You can simply save your state and restore your state.
43:04Elon MuskLike a saved game. Essentially something very close to that. I do think we can solve biological aging if we really wanted to, you'd have to make DNA changes. But we're obviously just on a clock.
43:21Elon MuskAll organisms are. I mean, you could take a fruit fly for example, and you could give it Yoda, sort of have it your daily yoga and have a very healthy diet.
43:32Elon MuskAnd it's still going to live for three weeks, maybe four weeks. So environmental factors are relatively minor for extending life. You have to change the DNA. Like will people be okay with changing the DNA?
43:48Elon MuskThat's the thing about extending life, you know, and probably people are a little bit reticent about that, but that's essentially the thing that needs to occur to extend life.
43:59Elon MuskYou've got to stop the DNA clock somehow. I don't know if we should work on this or not. I think frankly, you know, it's. It's probably a good thing that we do eventually die.
44:11Elon MuskYou know, there's a saying like in physics, like even physicists, which are generally quite objective is like saying like, you know, old physicists don't change their mind, they just die.
44:24Elon MuskSo maybe, you know, there's a. It's good to have this life cycle. Yeah, yeah.
44:30Jack MaWell, I think AI can definitely help the environment sustainability. And when human beings know themselves better, human being will be smarter and will be wiser. The difference between clever people and smart people or wise people.
44:48Jack MaSmart people knows what he want and how he can get it. Wise people know what he doesn't want. So when human beings using artificial intelligence, they will understand themselves better.
45:01Jack MaAnd I think there will be millions of ways people will live in a healthy earth and protect the healthiers. The reason why I want to stay in this earth, I want to work on this earth, I want to do anything I can to help this earth do better.
45:16Jack MaBecause even go to the space is great. But if we can spend resources just to focus on helping pick up the garbage from the oceans, that thing is more difficult than to go to the Mars.
45:31Jack MaBut artificial intelligence can help us achieving that and solve the problems. And the second a human being can live better, can live longer. But what we need is not only live longer, we want to live healthier.
45:44Jack MaHow can we live healthier is to understand us better. Most of the disease are caused by our behavior. So I think I'm 100% sure people will live longer. People will live healthier, but may not necessarily live happier.
46:04Jack MaIf you want to be happier, human beings should focus on valley the vision and the mission and always have the dreams. And I don't want people love the technology and put them dreams on the technology.
46:18Jack MaI think technology should be with dreams. It's not technology change the world. It's the dreams behind the technology that change the world. So my hope is that anything we can do to improve this world to helping 7.4 billion people live better and live healthier.
46:41Jack MaAnd this is all about our world. And I think we will be working very happily because I, I love your product, Tesla, you know, making world cleaner. And.
47:01Jack MaYou have the factory in China. And I think we need to do more things to improve this earth, improve this world and make sure that people are happier and people care about the family, people care about their health.
47:14Jack MaThat's all we should do. And trust us, trust the human beings and trust young people. Let's take responsibility for today, but let's not take away all the solutions for tomorrow.
47:29Jack MaIt's great human being make mistakes. It's great human being learn from mistakes. It's great to die.
47:40Elon MuskThat's probably true.
47:41Jack MaThank you. Yeah. You cannot live long.
47:43Elon MuskI just like. Yeah.
47:45ModeratorThank you.
47:46Elon MuskFight for the light of consciousness.
47:50Jack MaThank you. Nice talking to you.
47:52ModeratorThank you.